TV dog trainers

[CAYLA]

KK....are you telling me you attemped to reprimand your dog instead of cuddling her in to your busum or grilling her a steak...shame on you lady

or could you not just have for this once let her drive

I have tried to make loads of bloody replies on loads of posts and I get kicked off

I do hate with a passion these comments thrown around by fluffy owners in regard to the management and training of down right dangerous dogs, what about some praise for turning these dogs around and saving them from death like all the dogs that have behavioural issues now in pounds banging th heads of the wall, if they are so easy to train with love and food in such a short space of time, then where are all the people who advocate it and have had positive results, why are they not adopting them all and rehabilitating them

because they don't have a clue as to the extent of how disturbed these dogs are/have become and IMO there are not enough CM's.
I recently took on a ddb x pitt/staff type and posted pics on here of him, he was the hardest dog I ever worked with he has been in he pound since he was 6 months I took him out on the day he was to be destroyed at the age of 18 months

I really did not have the room to take him and without going into it, I took him to make a point, I can tell u it took strength and determination on my behalf, that dog was strong as a oxe and his mission was to kill, I was firm with that dog with out a doubt and to this day he has the best home I have possibly gotten for a dog in capable hands, otherwise he would have stayed with me and he goes on daily walks with 10 other dogs and lives with cats (I never thought this possible) I can tell you I did not curb his behaviour by treats and love.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I think the problem is a lot of people do not have experience of really difficult dogs, if you have a full size rottie, GSD or similar with aggression problems you have to sort it quickly before someone gets hurt. I still reckon that anyone with a problem dog should get advice from a decent trainer, in person, so they can assess the dog etc. Just getting ideas off a tv programme is always going to be hit and miss.

Re the citronella collar, we had a gsd (a sort of rescue) who barked non-stop in the kennel. We tried the collar and she very quickly learned to shut her eyes, bark as much as possible to empty the collar, have a sneezing fit, and then she was free to bark normally for the rest of the time

 

[Onyxia]

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I do like to watch caesar more than the stillewell woman, I think she is very mamby pamby and it makes me laugh when she returns and says "oh the dog is doing so much better" and the view is her walking down the street with the owner with the dog pulling all the way to the end of the lead and usually on a harness

, I think she jsut covers the basics and has a never ending bag of treats, I don't think she would beable to manage any of the aggression that caesar deals with(which impresses me the most) re caesar, I think he is better at the more serious problems but sometimes gets a little carried away with the verbal side of things, I have seen problems he has dealt with and thought "I would never tackle that like that" one prominant programme being a cat and a dog(the dog was obsessed with the cat) and I felt he had very little experience with cats and dogs together as he handled it badly

Otherwise the aggression he deals with is spot on, he is not so good at the basics, but I dont particurlarly rate VS and hardly bother to watch after the few times I have.
He is very confident with dogs, and I do hate these people on some of the forums "one in particular" that slate him as being a bully and saying utter crap like he could have sorted that pit bull that wanted to eat everything in site with a nice little tit bit and a good cuddle

at yet they sit at home with their one or maybe 2 little darling dogs and have never seen an aggressive dog or it's capabilities in motion

I dont always agree with his interpritation of behaviour either, I would not agree the howling is dominance but more a way of expressing anxiety at suddenly finding it's self alone and trying maybe to locate the pack(owner) bit like us yelling "don't leave me"

Anyhow this is getting long and im rambling

caesar is best

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I really need to get to threads before you,or all thats left is...baaaa

From what I have seen of VS (and keeping in mind its an edited version for TV so may not be a true representaion of her training) the Bottomless Bag Of Treats is key and her training is a one size fits ll varity.
I cant think of any two dogs that behaved the same for the same reasons,and for that I much prefere CM who seems to spend time working out whats going on in the dogs head before doing anything.

I cant abide the bunny huggers who wont disipline their dogs-can sort of see the point if the behaviour is nothing more then an annoyence,but what exactly does ignoring dangerous behaviour teach except that it's OK?

Long and short of it,if I think a dog needs a smack it gets one.It also gets a lot of rewards(good boys,treats now and then) when they do what I need/want them to.
For all animals(and kids for that matter

) I think Stephen Whitaker hit the nail on the head-letting it do it wrong is the same as training it wrong.
How is the animal to know what you want?
handing out praise and reprimands as apropriate is the only real way for the dog to understand whats acceptable and whats not,and a well trained dog is always a happy,good dog

 

[djlynwood]

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I'm afraid I would not let CM within a mile of my dogs, he is a bully. The Pack leader/dominance theory is old hat:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090521112711.htm

Try watching his programme with the sound turned down so you cant be biased by his interpretation of what the dog is doing. A lot of times you will see the dog throwing lots of calming signals at him which he interprets as dominance. A lot of dogs shut down through his bullying and he calls it calm submissive. Yes you need to give any dog boundaries and rules but why would you want your dog to live with you in constant fear in case you poke it, kick it, when you can train it using modern positive methods so your dog is more able to understand what you are asking of it. CM will tell the dog off for bad behaviour, but very rarely praise it when he gets the behaviour he wants, how is the dog to learn what is acceptable from that sort of training?

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I agree with this. People like CM have set dog training back 30 years.

The only thing I like about him is that he is very up front with the owners, who cause the problems.

 

[KarynK]

[ QUOTE ]
KK....are you telling me you attemped to reprimand your dog instead of cuddling her in to your busum or grilling her a steak...shame on you lady

or could you not just have for this once let her drive

[/ QUOTE ]

Cuddle it, did I *&£%, would have probably lost both arms, you see the angel's aggression is to me! Having been beaten in his first home and amateur clicker trained in his second he has found a VERY effective way to make most people back off, which of course is what he wants, to be (OMG can I really say this here) LEADER OF MY PACK.

I have two adult males, Digger is lovely, but has problems from a wholly inappropriate 1st home, he can be naughty but more mischievous and is entire, so if I chose to be just equal to my dogs I couldn't afford the vets bills or the breakages! They know that when I say stop arguing I MEAN IT! They are a VERY tough breed from a very hard climate, they are not too many generations from the dingo they still resemble and they don't respect a soft approach just like Huskies and other powerful intelligent breeds.

When Blue goes off on one he REALLY means it and I have to be VERY brave and stand up to him or he would be PTS, though with him I suspect you would have to deploy RSPCA tactics and shoot him from a VERY long distance. I cantell him off but I have to be very careful when! And yes he does get rewarded when good.

Yes people can train softly with certain breeds but unless people have experienced the tough ones and those in this category that have been mistreated buy idiots then you have no idea what it takes with them.

Blue hates people doing unpleasant things to him, or making him do what he doesn’t want to, if I didn't play hard ball I would get bitten and have a dog I could do nothing with. He is fine with people he perceives as no threat but his aggression is instant and like Cesar points out he has no stages in reaching level 10!!

He is brilliant with other dogs and in fact if a lot of dogs are playing he will butt out completely, he is scared of sis's pack (sorry group of loveable cuddly teddy bears) of Huskies, when I dog sat this week he was very wary of them.

Years ago I had an interesting conversation with Michael Peace about his two Doberpersons, a male and a female, he said he found it very difficult with them at first as he had been so used to treading quietly with horses, after the loveable pair had killed a fair number of his chickens he snapped and gave them a good telling off, he took over as leader of the pack and there they were happy and standing in the middle of a whole host of live chickens.

Just look at some teenage humans now, they have no rules boundaries or limitations they have no respect because they no longer have effective discipline, surely we are not going to do it to our dogs as well????

 

[Teaselmeg]

CC I totally agree that you should never have a 'one size fits all' mentality when it comes to dog training. Dogs have issues for all sorts of reasons.

I am not a dog trainer, ( nor a fluffy bunny hugger) but I have seen more than my fair share of aggressive/ rude dogs thanks to my rescue girlie who I thought was dog aggressive when I first got her. Thanks to some friends I found out about a method of rehabilitation using teaching dogs. This is usually off lead socialisation using the teaching dogs to teach other dogs how to behave. I have seen Rotties, Ridgebacks, GSD's, Am bulldogs etc all turned round using this method, including dogs for whom this was a last chance. The teaching dogs do not routinely pin/alpha roll, they never bite a dog, they use body language, body blocking, sometimes just a look to get their point across. This to me in conjunction with positive reward based training methods is the most constructive and long term way to help your aggressive/rude dog. A lot of times you will see dogs who have never had another dog stand up to them back off straight away and think about what has just happened and soon they are much more friendly and tolerant of other dogs. My girlie it turned out was not aggressive at all, but just a bossy bitch who is actually a good teaching dog and we now help at a socialisation group near me.

This is why I think CM gets it so wrong, he says he is imitating what one dog would do to another, but he is not a dog, the dogs do not understand what he is doing, only that he is bullying them and it is easier to give in than be bullied again. He calls himself the Dog Whisperer, but when the dogs whisper to him he chooses ignore what they are saying

I like VS and her methods, she shows that you do not need to bully a dog to stop bad behaviour. Both VS and CM promote exercising your dog, setting boundaries and not treating your dog as a substitute child, which is great, there is just a world of difference in their methods

 

[CorvusCorax]

Thanks for your reply Teaselmeg, sounds like your girl was very lucky to find you

I would have loved to have found a group like this near me when I was struggling (was contemplating bundling dog in a car and driving him to England to see Cayla and her pack!) but we got there in the end.