two horses die at scottish grand national

Very sad. You also have to question how fair the connections of Minella Four Star were to put him in for this - he's run four times in the last two months, having won the Midlands National three weeks ago. It's a big ask...

Not a good time for racing at the moment.
 
teagreen said:
What do you suggest, ban racing?

Horses haven't died in the Scottish National since 2002.
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No, I would never suggest that.

I'm a huge fan of racing - but not of seeing horses over-raced. That's not to say that was definitely the cause of MFS's death, and I very much doubt it had any part to play in the death of Dooney's Gate and Ornais. But it is one of my pet hates. I have to confess I felt a bit uncomfortable seeing Denman run at Aintree last week, too - he definitely wasn't on his usual form.

I don't have any answers; it's been on my mind a lot since last weekend, and I've read with interest the varied views of various media figures; the only article I've actually agreed with almost totally has been the one from The Guardian.

You cannot deny it is a bad time for racing at the moment, at least from a media perspective. What with Newbury, the National and the Scots National, the sport has definitely taken a battering, and it is hard to see how it will ever really recover, IMO.
 
_MizElz_ said:
No, I would never suggest that.

I'm a huge fan of racing - but not of seeing horses over-raced. That's not to say that was definitely the cause of MFS's death, and I very much doubt it had any part to play in the death of Dooney's Gate and Ornais. But it is one of my pet hates. I have to confess I felt a bit uncomfortable seeing Denman run at Aintree last week, too - he definitely wasn't on his usual form.

I don't have any answers; it's been on my mind a lot since last weekend, and I've read with interest the varied views of various media figures; the only article I've actually agreed with almost totally has been the one from The Guardian.

You cannot deny it is a bad time for racing at the moment, at least from a media perspective. What with Newbury, the National and the Scots National, the sport has definitely taken a battering, and it is hard to see how it will ever really recover, IMO.
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Sorry, Mizelz, we cross posted and my comment wasn't aimed at your post.

I don't like seeing them over-raced either, but it's hard to comment when you don't know what goes on in the yards. I know a few didn't get runs earlier in the season because of the bad weather, so they are giving them more now, and I suppose if they look fit and well at home and show their usual spark then why not let them race. Horses in the 60's/70's raced a lot more frequently than they do now, and I've read articles from people saying 'stop wrapping them in cotton wool, if they look well then run them'.

Racing is growing in popularity all the time and I think, within the 'country sector' anyway, is going to keep going that way. All the local meetings and point to points I've been to have been absolutely packed, and Cheltenham saw some pretty healthy figures too this year, and I read on Kim Bailey's website that horses were reaching massive prices at the last sale he was at, I'm sure he quoted over £200,000 for one.

It has been a bad spell for racing, but I'm still more concerned with how Peter Toole is doing than the horses that died, sad as it is. As I said, horses haven't died in the Scottish National since 2002, it was just unfortunate that 2 died this year.
 
teagreen said:
What do you suggest, ban racing?

Horses haven't died in the Scottish National since 2002.
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I think most people now know where i stand on racing. Its never gonna be banned, but i would be all for a ban never the less.

Its a terrible time for racing atm, hopefully more people will see this side of it, and perhaps think twice about betting on these poor animals.
 
Jennyharvey said:
I think most people now know where i stand on racing. Its never gonna be banned, but i would be all for a ban never the less.

Its a terrible time for racing atm, hopefully more people will see this side of it, and perhaps think twice about betting on these poor animals.
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They are a hell of a lot better off than a lot of horses I have seen.
 
teagreen said:
They are a hell of a lot better off than a lot of horses I have seen.
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I would agree. Its unbelievable the amount of cruelty that goes on in the horse world, and all animals. I think that people who want to own an animal should be trained, and inspected, so that they actually know what they are doing. It may not be an easy thing to do, to monitor all pets and horses, but i think that something has to be done.
 
Really?! :eek:

I watched the race, only one fell (I think) bringing another down with it, they both got up and galloped on, quite a few were pulled up but I didn't think it was due to injury!

*tootles of to open link*


Oh that is a shame, RIP beautiful boys :(
 
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Having just watched 4 Dartmoor Hill ponies be shot on Countryfile because they have no job and are not up to standard (their words exactly), it just shows further that racing is NOT the only 'evil' in the equine world. Not saying that these ponies shouldn't have been shot (better that than spiral into neglect and die of starvation), but people go on about how awful racing is - take a look around.
 
Regal Heights died after crossing the line presumabley of a heart attack and Minella Four Star pulled up fatally injured.

I would still rather be a racehorse than a little miserable Dartmoor pony, did you see those four bodies under the tarp. not 2 bodies as in the Grand National but four and thats the ones we know about. But Ive seen nothing about this from the supporters of Animal Aid.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Regal Heights died after crossing the line presumabley of a heart attack and Minella Four Star pulled up fatally injured.

I would still rather be a racehorse than a little miserable Dartmoor pony, did you see those four bodies under the tarp. not 2 bodies as in the Grand National but four and thats the ones we know about. But Ive seen nothing about this from the supporters of Animal Aid.
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Animal Aid don't want to help wild animals. They want to take everyones pets and working animals and set them free ... so they can end up like those dartmoor ponies.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Regal Heights died after crossing the line presumabley of a heart attack and Minella Four Star pulled up fatally injured.

I would still rather be a racehorse than a little miserable Dartmoor pony, did you see those four bodies under the tarp. not 2 bodies as in the Grand National but four and thats the ones we know about. But Ive seen nothing about this from the supporters of Animal Aid.
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Exactly!
 
Over2You said:
At least he had a choice and knew the risks. The poor horses do not. Never have, never will.
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Over2You - I've read a few of your posts on the subject of racing and have come to the conclusion that you are the kind of person who is so blinded by your own convictions, you fail to actually even contemplate the other side of the argument. The pro/anti-racing argument is similar to the pro/anti-hunting one, and I firmly believe there are pros and cons in both cases. I myself try to maintain a balanced and objective view - granted, it doesnt always work. But it angers me when people present a continuously biased, one-sided argument without ample facts to back up what they're saying. And you may well come back and say that racehorses are ill treated, that they run because they are forced, that they are treated as machines by their ignorant owners, and in some cases, I believe you would be right. But to apply this to the entire racing industry would be ludicrous; it's a huge, blanket statement to make, and one that I really dont think can be substantiated.

It is clear that you care very much for animals, and I'm not for a second saying that should change, but I think you need to consider the bigger picture.
 
3Beasties said:
So if a fireman was seriously injured/died doing his job would it be fine because 'he had a choice and knew the risks'?
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Additionally, if the same number of jockeys were being killed, there would be a damned site more going into reviewing the place of racing in modern society. A 'sport' that kills as many animals each and every year should be BANNED!!
 
Over2You said:
Additionally, if the same number of jockeys were being killed, there would be a damned site more going into reviewing the place of racing in modern society. A 'sport' that kills as many animals each and every year should be BANNED!!
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For the millioneth time - what would you do with the horses if it was banned tomorrow, like you so wish?
 
Over2You said:
Bad example. A firefighter doing his or her job would NOT put the life of an innocent creature at stake in the line of duty!!
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↲↲Um what planet do you live on? Just a week ago i had 3 firetrucks chasing me and 2 others down the road. Full blues and twos and they most certainly werent slowing down! One we could have coped with but not 3! We ended up cantering, yes cantering! Down the road to dart into a field entrance as they ignored us asking them to slow down a fraction whilst we trotted out of their way. We were on racehorses at the time so 1. They were endangering 3 innocent creatures and 2. They endangered 3 racehorses going about their work.
 
teagreen said:
For the millioneth time - what would you do with the horses if it was banned tomorrow, like you so wish?
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This is such a key point for all anti-racing people to consider.

I'm a teacher, and the other day, I was having a big debate with my Year 10 students regarding the issue of foxhunting, and whether the ban should be enforced more stringently. Although we're a rural school, the majority of students are largely against hunting, so once I had listened to their initial arguments, I presented them with a few simple facts for consideration. The statistics that shocked them the most were the ones regarding the numbers of horses and hounds that would have to be destroyed if foxhunting were to be outlawed completely - they were stunned.

The figures for racing, were it to be banned, would be equally disturbing, I feel.
 
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_MizElz_ said:
Over2You - I've read a few of your posts on the subject of racing and have come to the conclusion that you are the kind of person who is so blinded by your own convictions, you fail to actually even contemplate the other side of the argument. The pro/anti-racing argument is similar to the pro/anti-hunting one, and I firmly believe there are pros and cons in both cases. I myself try to maintain a balanced and objective view - granted, it doesnt always work. But it angers me when people present a continuously biased, one-sided argument without ample facts to back up what they're saying. And you may well come back and say that racehorses are ill treated, that they run because they are forced, that they are treated as machines by their ignorant owners, and in some cases, I believe you would be right. But to apply this to the entire racing industry would be ludicrous; it's a huge, blanket statement to make, and one that I really dont think can be substantiated.

It is clear that you care very much for animals, and I'm not for a second saying that should change, but I think you need to consider the bigger picture.
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Common sense, and correct.

Alec.
 
Over2You said:
At least he had a choice and knew the risks. The poor horses do not. Never have, never will.
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There are far worse fates in life (for every being on the planet) than dying as a racehorse may.

IMO you can't (and shouldn't) bubblewrap every life-form on Earth. Or else, what's the point? It's called LIFE for a reason! You may as well dictate that everything comes into the world, lives an average lifespan in a hermetically sealed environment which is dictated by Man as to be the most suitable (and I do include Man himself here!) and then shuffles off at it's allotted biologically pre-destined moment.

Or is that what you wish for?
 
_MizElz_ said:
Over2You - I've read a few of your posts on the subject of racing and have come to the conclusion that you are the kind of person who is so blinded by your own convictions, you fail to actually even contemplate the other side of the argument. The pro/anti-racing argument is similar to the pro/anti-hunting one, and I firmly believe there are pros and cons in both cases. I myself try to maintain a balanced and objective view - granted, it doesnt always work. But it angers me when people present a continuously biased, one-sided argument without ample facts to back up what they're saying. And you may well come back and say that racehorses are ill treated, that they run because they are forced, that they are treated as machines by their ignorant owners, and in some cases, I believe you would be right. But to apply this to the entire racing industry would be ludicrous; it's a huge, blanket statement to make, and one that I really dont think can be substantiated.

It is clear that you care very much for animals, and I'm not for a second saying that should change, but I think you need to consider the bigger picture.
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Thank you for not shooting me down. However, my opinion of racing will NEVER change. I cannot see anything from the side of people who find it acceptable to put animals at such high risk in the name of sport and entertainment. If racing were banned, I would have no sympathy for those who would be jobless. They earned their money out of the pain and suffering of animals. Instead, they could turn their facilities into sanctuaries/retirement homes for the horses and charge the public to go and see them. A lower income perhaps, but it would still be a much kinder way of getting money out of the horses. To put them under so much stress and making them jump those horrid fences is as cruel as it is barbaric. It is something that should be consigned to the history books.
 
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