Typical TB feet, what do you think?

ellie11987

ellie11987

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My 6yo TB's favorite hobby is pulling of her front shoes, ridden and in the field. I'm at my wits ends about it now! She is an over-reacher and has weak soft hooves anyway. A few days ago she pulled a shoe off when she overreached in the school, I always ride in overreach boots and they don't seem to stop her pulling them off much.

The first week I got her she came with one off, then pulled the other shoe off the same day I got the missing one put back on. I got her fully shod with my farrier and all seemed to be good until she pulled that one off! I don't know whether to get her fully shod again or just put the shoe back on as she was done 4-5 weeks ago but its normally every 6-7 weeks she is shod. what do you think?

Also is there anything I can do to stop her pulling shoes off?! The hoof is also quite crumbly when the shoe is taken off so is there anyway I can improve her hoof condition? I've thought of biotin but I've heard its not that brill and I'm considering Keratax hh, has anyone used this?

Any suggestions welcome! Thanks :)
 
Personally Id be taking them all off and seriously working up a plan to improve the quality of her hooves before she does her self a serious injury resulting in a massive vets bill :o

The diet obviously needs sorting out if she can't hold onto shoes, and whether you need boots in the mean time if she's tender on them.

Dont bother with oils etc, they just prevent the hoof breathing they dont alter the quality of the horn that is there - that was grown down months ago. Painting stuff on is just a sop to the owners conscious that they're trying to help.

What is she being fed? Have you got pics of the sole and side view from the ground etc?
 
PS get the notion that TBs have bad feet as a breed out of your head ;) They dont its just the way they are treated from a young age as race horses that has got them that rep.
 
I had the same problem when mine kept pulling his off and eventually there was nothing left to nail to. Took them off and turned him away, this suited my circumstances as he was lame anyway. He grew a whole new foot and he is shod again now. But part of me wishes I didn't shoe him again!

We have one on the yard currently who was pulling three a week off. She now has putty put around the edges of her feet so there is nothing sticking out to stand on. Seems to have worked so far.
 
To grow good feet you need to adapt the diet, and even if shod, they will improve with the barefoot diet, which is lo sugar [lush grass and starchy cereals], hi fibre and added [balanced] minerals, plus oil for energy [micronised linseed meal]
eg
 
What diet are u useing? Sounds like it needs looking at.
Don't bother with keratex and oils etc, good hoofs come from within!! (diet)
if he was mine I would be taking his shoes off and booting him, like my tb who is doing very well and feet are getting so good but not before a lot off research into what it involves, diet, trim, etc etc.
 
My tb had crumbly feet when she was shod, she was only shod in front and her backs were always fine so I opted for bare foot and never looked back! Her feet are fantastic, she moves 100% better and for us it has been the answer. Feed is definitely your starting point as good hooves do come from diet more than anything!
I use keratex on my mare purely because this being her first summer barefoot and such up and down weather she did get slightly footy, keratex was recommended by my farrier and it has sorted it out completely!
But this isn't a way to start, I didn't use anything until about 6 months in and only for the reasons above. Diet is the best thing to sort out first off :)
 
My TB has lousy feet, it's hereditary in his case, he never even went into training. All the improved diet did was improve the horn quality, not the quantity unfortunately. He's footy shod and unshod, and he used to pull shoes frequently until I changed his diet and the horn improved. Boots work really well for us as I can protect his soles without going down the shoes and pads route which was to be our only other option. He has front shoes on at the mo to stabilise a couple of bad cracks and he's only lost one, in the really wet weather. Didn't take any hoof off with it either. Definitely diet needs sorting if you want to improve feet and maybe take the shoes off and go for boots, at least until you have decent feet to shoe. You may find he's ok without and want to keep him that way. Shoes are coming off mine as soon as the cracks have gone, then it's back to the boots. Yay!
 
And I expect that her feet are getting even worse each time a shoe's pulled off! Depending what you do with her (if you want studs) I'd consider taking off her back shoes as a possibility. Talk to your farrier about shoeing in front with a rolled toe, which will make the breakover in front quicker. A friend also wondered about getting two pairs of the rubber OR boots, one in the normal size that fits her and one a size up, and wearing both to help? Good luck!
 
TigerTail said:
PS get the notion that TBs have bad feet as a breed out of your head ;) They dont its just the way they are treated from a young age as race horses that has got them that rep.
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lol this made me laugh hahaha :) yep agree with you but after getting Darcy (ex-racer, raced for 4 years) i changed my mind hahaha i think that soft feet run in the breed but maybe i'm biased ;)
 
For those asking I've only had her less than 6 weeks so don't know much about her and how she copes barefoot (if she has ever been) but she is on a long term loan, so I don't know how her owners would feel about it, maybe just take the back off?

Diet:
Dengie Happy Hoof
Baileys Topline cubes (going to change to High Fiber cubes once I've finished the bag)
Calm and Condition
Garlic
vegetable oil
 
TigerTail said:
Personally Id be taking them all off and seriously working up a plan to improve the quality of her hooves before she does her self a serious injury resulting in a massive vets bill :o

The diet obviously needs sorting out if she can't hold onto shoes, and whether you need boots in the mean time if she's tender on them.

Dont bother with oils etc, they just prevent the hoof breathing they dont alter the quality of the horn that is there - that was grown down months ago. Painting stuff on is just a sop to the owners conscious that they're trying to help.

What is she being fed? Have you got pics of the sole and side view from the ground etc?
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No but I can take some tomorrow? Her feet are honestly not great. She's not footy with this shoe missing but would dread taking them all of! Been trying to get hold of my farrier but i have a feeling he's on his hols D: i'll see what he thinks
 
floradora09 said:
And I expect that her feet are getting even worse each time a shoe's pulled off! Depending what you do with her (if you want studs) I'd consider taking off her back shoes as a possibility. Talk to your farrier about shoeing in front with a rolled toe, which will make the breakover in front quicker. A friend also wondered about getting two pairs of the rubber OR boots, one in the normal size that fits her and one a size up, and wearing both to help? Good luck!
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Yep her front feet are steadily getting worse, this time the nail ripped down the wall so its got a little crack, not the end of the world but if this carries on... At the moment we're schooling and hacking. I wanted to leave the front ones on really because of her age we do a lot of work really. I presume taking the back ones off reduces the chances of ripping the front ones off overreaching? I've been recommended the boots and going barefoot by a friend but I'm worried about the time it'll take for her to adjust and be able to be in full work as she is only young and needs a lot of work and is quite excitable when not rode for a while! haha. I'll ask my farrier bout the rolled toe as I'm quite green with my shoeing terms hahaha :)
 
ellie11987 said:
sorry, what do you mean? I'm not sure if she's ever had her shoes off. As far as I know she ran her first race at 2 1/2 and her last at 4 1/2 then re trained and fully shod ever since i presume.
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Yikes not surprising she doesnt have great feet then tbh. Do get some piccys up and maybe FAO this thread to Oberon as she's got a wealth of knowledge on the topic :)

The thing is it sounds like the farrier is basically running out of good foot to nail into at this point, so she needs them off to grow a new healthy hoof capsule which takes roughly 8 months if I remember right.


Look on the feed bags and see if Dengie Happy Hoof contains molasses/molglo - if it does she doesnt want to be on it. The top line cubes mentioned def have molasses and a few other nasties in and C+C is a lot of sugar beet so all in all atm she is getting a lot of sugar if you add all that lot together. Anything with bad feed needs to be on low sugar and low starch.

Id suggest micronised linseed, a plain timothy or straw chop and Forage Plus/Pro Hoof supplement as the latter contain very high doses of minerals compared to the main brand names, no molasses or fillers.

Whereabouts are you OP? Wonder if any of the BF crew are close to give you a hand :)
 
Ok thats your issue his feet need a break from shoes.
Horses feet a need a break from shoeing regularly I make sure I do it every year with the good boots you can get now that still means you can work them but I time it for a quiet time.
BF is an option but it's not for all horses or people I have a mix of horses two wear for part of the year one is BF and one is over due for a breK from shoes at the moment .
It also worth looking at a good quality hoof supplement to boost horn growth.
I was having exactly the same issue with the TB I bought in August last year I took the shoes off in April the difference in his feet is enormous .
 
Don't panic, my Tb came to me age 11 had shoes on since 3 with never a break, i took all off as he kept ripping them off, he only had fronts on tho, but he was never lame when shoes ripped off so i risked it, he was ridden out on roads 2 days later and was fine,we have a stony drive he took about 2 weeks to be totally comfortable. Try it- if horse doesn't adjust then revert back or try boots, problem is more rip off worse feet become. Its easier to transition now as ground softer!
 
I was in your situation 3 years ago. My TB mare had eggbars and wedges on her front feet (and was intermittently lame far too often), and had to be sedated to do the backs. The fronts got pulled off all the time, and after Winkburn where she pulled off one front sj, and had it refitted before xc, then pulled off the other xc (with overreach boots on, i never took them off) my farrier insisted he took them all off as there was literally no hoof left.
She had 3 months off and i restarted work. She is on the low sugar type diet as mentioned above but (touch wood) has been sound ever since, and does all 3 disciplines on grass and surfaces without shoes. It is a bit of a pain tbh, not too much roadwork etc but for us it really has worked.
 
TigerTail said:
Yikes not surprising she doesnt have great feet then tbh. Do get some piccys up and maybe FAO this thread to Oberon as she's got a wealth of knowledge on the topic :)

The thing is it sounds like the farrier is basically running out of good foot to nail into at this point, so she needs them off to grow a new healthy hoof capsule which takes roughly 8 months if I remember right.


Look on the feed bags and see if Dengie Happy Hoof contains molasses/molglo - if it does she doesnt want to be on it. The top line cubes mentioned def have molasses and a few other nasties in and C+C is a lot of sugar beet so all in all atm she is getting a lot of sugar if you add all that lot together. Anything with bad feed needs to be on low sugar and low starch.

Id suggest micronised linseed, a plain timothy or straw chop and Forage Plus/Pro Hoof supplement as the latter contain very high doses of minerals compared to the main brand names, no molasses or fillers.

Whereabouts are you OP? Wonder if any of the BF crew are close to give you a hand :)
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Wow didn't realize what rubbish was in those feeds! Will have to address this asap but I'm concerned about keeping her weight up with no C+C or speedi-beet/sugar beet as she's previously been on? Struggling to find the right balance D: I've just had a look at happy hooves ingredients and yep there is indeed molasses in it surprised surprised even though it says low sugar and starch! I've checked C+C and in the ingredients it says 'Unmolassed Beet Pulp' but im not sure if thats okay or not? And topline is a no go just checked that!!!

Sorry what does OP mean? lol
 
Thank you all for the fantastic replies! I'm going to address her diet and talk to my farrier about taking her back ones off for now and see if it makes a difference. Will have to ask her owner though as even though I have her on a long term loan, she will have the final decision :)
 
TB feet don't need to be bad feet. I have an unshod TB mare who had her shoes taken off last October - she is very nearly rock crunching now!

Sounds like your horse might need a break from shoes. I used hoof boots to start with and there are some great ones around - you would probably only need them on the fronts anyway. The problem you have (and it's the same problem I had with my last TB) is that every time the shoe gets pulled off you're left with less to nail to until eventually you have no choice but to have no shoes on. Nobody is saying that you can't shoe in the future, but it might be time to have a break and let the hooves start to repair.

I fed mine initially on Fast Fibre with Pro Hoof and micronised linseed, although I've just changed her to Pure Easy from the Pure Feed Company.

Good luck!
 
TBs are shod from an early age and rarely get a break from shoes.
They are fed high sugar and cereal diets because they are 'poor doers'.

The high sugar and cereal diets create an inefficient and acidic digestive tract that makes it harder to put weight on them....so people get stuck in a revolving cycle.

This diet and the back to back shoeing from a young age is what causes 'typical TB feet'.

It's an injustice to the breed to suggest it's their fault :(.

First and foremost is diet. Nothing in the bucket should have a combined sugar AND starch level above 10% - that goes for the whole serving.

Calm and Condition alone is 18%. That isn't including everything else you are feeding. Isn't Happy Hoof made by Spillers - not Dengie?
And then let's look at the grass - which has been crazy sweet this year too.

No shock to me the hooves aren't doing so well :p.

To put weight on a horse you need plenty of fibre.

Horses ferment fibre in the large intestine and this accounts for 50% of the calorie yield.
Fermentation of fibre creates a happily alkalotic pH - which keeps us away from ulcers and thus creates an efficient digestive system.

So if you want weight - fibre, fibre, fibre.

Safe sources of fibre are unmolassed chaff, Fast Fibre, UNMOLASSED beet, soya hulls (although controversial).

There are some horses who don't do well on alfalfa - out calcium levels in the grazing don't support the use of it.

Fibre cubes that taste good and have been found safe are Spillers High Fibre Cubes (don't ask me why they work - I can't account for it :o).

You need to provide adequate levels of minerals to match the shortfall in the UK's grazing.
Pro Balance +
Pro Hoof
ForagePlus Balancer
Equimin's Meta Balance (although they are reluctant to sell it openly)

are all safe and provide a better ratio of minerals (IMO) than the standard supplements.

Micronised linseed - in winter it will provide the magic of Dr Green that is lost in the winter grass, plus it's a coat conditioner, joint supplement, gut muculage and polar lipid (to keep the wet away from the hooves). Very well worth £25 for the winter :cool:

Salt - very important and so often overlooked - 25g a day and more when working.

I would be thinking about ulcers with an ex-racer, poor doer with dodgy hooves.....maybe give a course of something to be sure?
 
OP is original poster :)

Micronised linseed is great for weight, hence my good doers only get it when it's cold!! If that's not enough then my next choice would b live oats, don't give u the sillyness like rolled etc do. I prefer to feed individual ingredients known as straights rather than premixed stuff unless I had a v v v poor doer in which case I'd use thunderbrooks basemix bran and oats as have had good results barefoot with this before.

Def talk to the farrier
 
Oberon said:
TBs are shod from an early age and rarely get a break from shoes.


Calm and Condition alone is 18%. That isn't including everything else you are feeding. Isn't Happy Hoof made by Spillers - not Dengie?
And then let's look at the grass - which has been crazy sweet this year too.
Click to expand...

Happy hoof - spillers

Healthy hooves - dengie. :-)
 
china said:
Happy hoof - spillers

Healthy hooves - dengie. :-)
Click to expand...

The Dengie Healthy Hooves is 9% combined sugar and starch - so we're up to 27% with the C&C.

I have heard (but I don't know) that the Bailey's Topline Cubes are 26%

So we could be up to 53% in a bucket.....
 
Oberon said:
The Dengie Healthy Hooves is 9% combined sugar and starch - so we're up to 27% with the C&C.

I have heard (but I don't know) that the Bailey's Topline Cubes are 26%

So we could be up to 53% in a bucket.....
Click to expand...

Im going to PM you as I have a question and don't want to hijack :-)
 
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