UKIP - are the party for repeal

[Judgemental]

I am beginning to wonder if UKIP are not the the party we should all support to cause a repeal of the Hunting Act 2004.

Their Manifesto states that there will be a county by county referendum concerning the 2004 Hunting Act.

When Mr Nigel Farage was campaining recently in Lincolnshire he was a wearing a BFSS red tie - splendid fellow.

He has put the wind up Cameron (you will note I speak of Mr Farage as opposed to Cameron), so much so the latter has flown to Washington to reassure the Americans about our status in Europe when Cameron announces the referendum.

Some will argue that a vote for UKIP will give the keys to 10 Downing Street to Labour, well so be it. The Conservatives have done nothing whatsoever to repeal the Hunting Act 2004. At least UKIP are having a crack at the job.

 

[Fidgety]

Agree. There's much more to UKIP than exiting the EU - and that's what's scaring the other parties right now!

 

[Twinkley Lights]

I would hope that after their p poor economic performance that Labour would be unelectable for generations to come. I'm undecided on the others. Lets hope we actually have proper policy debates and manefestos unlike last time.

 

[Fidgety]

Lets hope we actually have proper policy debates and manefestos unlike last time.

Don't hedge your bets on there being more TV debates though - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Nigel-Farage-demanding-place-UKIP-claim.html

 

[Judgemental]

EXTRACT FROM THE UKIP 2010 MANIFESTO

The rural economy has sustained heavy blows in recent decades. The scares surrounding salmonella and BSE hit farmers hard, as did the recent foot and mouth outbreak. Many young people are leaving the countryside due to a lack of perceived job opportunities, and difficulties climbing on the housing ladder. The banning of hunting and other countryside pursuits was seen by many in the countryside as little more than class revenge by an urban political elite, with damaging consequences for rural culture, identity and leisure. The scenes of countryside folk being ruthlessly beaten and arrested by police during a peaceful demonstration in response to this ban outside the Houses of Parliament remains a disgraceful chapter in British political history.

http://www.ukip.org/index.php/issues/2013-01-25-10-55-7/2010-manifesto?id=505

 

[LittleBlackMule]

Another vote for UKIP here. I've been following Nigel Farage for years (not literally I'm not a stalker ) and I've no doubt if he ever made prime minister most of this country's problems would be solved.

 

[Shutterbug]

Their stance on hunting is the least of my concerns - I do like their idea for immigrants and benefits and for making the entry to the UK for work the same as what America and Australia do - a points system. They do need to change their attitude towards gay marriage and Scottish independence before they get my vote though but I can see why so many people are giving them a vote.

 

[Countryman]

Judgemental the key flaw in your otherwise seemingly ideal plan for Britain is what you yourself outlined-that voting UKIP will hand Labour the keys to power.

If the reason you are backing UKIP is to get repeal, then your argument does not hold up.

Unfortunately, if you vote UKIP, Labour will get in in 2015 and that will be the end of Hunting. It will be gone. I fear they will tighten the ban and remove every possible loophole, (As POWA are lobbying them to do; indeed POWA have produced a draft New Huntjng Act) which would result in nothing even remotely resembling hunting being legal in this country, along with much harsher penalties (think prison time).

I agree with much of what UKIP say and I find Farage to be quite a reasonable sensible party leader. If they agreed to repeal the ban I might have more sympathy for them however.

A county-wide referendum is simply not going to keep hunting going. Certainly not in any counties with urbanisation or cities - so no hunting in the home counties, anywhere within 50 miles of London, the midlands, even Leicestershire. Ok it *might*
Get lifted in parts of the West Country but even that is dubious.

Now if it was rural people only allowed to vote...

No, I stand by the Tories I'm afraid. From a purely hunting point of view they are the party that will get is repeal - and they will if they have a majority, I'm confident of that. Look at their MP's - Nick Herbert, former Huntsman of the Newmarket Beagles, Simon Hart of the CA, Cameron himself - no matter how wet you might find him - is a country man and comes from a hunting background. The vast vast majority of Tory MP's back repeal and will vote for it.

I apologise from what seems to be, looking back, a party political broadcast, but from a Hunting point of view the Tories are the only ones who are going to deliver Repeal.

 

[Alec Swan]

...... There's much more to UKIP than exiting the EU - and that's what's scaring the other parties right now!

Really? I wish that someone would explain to me what it is! They'll extricate us from the EU, and they're showing a passing interest in things rural. So far so good, but what of their other policies? Do they have an agenda, of any sort?

Alec.

 

[Judgemental]

Really? I wish that someone would explain to me what it is! They'll extricate us from the EU, and they're showing a passing interest in things rural. So far so good, but what of their other policies? Do they have an agenda, of any sort?

Alec.

I was a sceptic but Alec it's all there: http://www.ukip.org/index.php/issues/2013-01-25-10-55-7/2010-manifesto

At the very least it will make the Conservatives get off their backsides.

 

[Anglebracket]

Would you really vote for a party based on one relatively trivial issue? There are far more important issues than hunting. If UKIP's policies float your boat then by all means vote for them but please consider their policies as a whole. The one policy you vote a party in for may never happen. Look what the LibDems did with student fees. Most of UKIP's support is based on the fact that they are anti EU. That is what they will focus on when they get into power. Hunting is a side issue to get the rural vote.

 

[Hunters]

Well I've traipsed the streets for the last two elections on behalf of hunting for the conservatives & was forwarded an email from a fairly well known MP stating that he had been elected on his own merit & the hunting folk had nothing to do with his election.

Hmmmp !!! I for one am done helping the Conservatives & will watch UKIP with interest..,

 

[happyhunter123]

Who do you think will win the next election?

In many ways I struggle to imagine Labour winning with Miliband leading them, and even if they do, I predict that he'll probably be worse than Brown (that's beside the point though).

The Lib Dems will do abysmally.

The Tories are losing support to UKIP, and if they couldn't get a majority last time, they're almost certain not to get one this time.

UKIP are unlikely, in reality to win many seats.

The best thing would be to have a UKIP/Tory coalition, but I can't see it happening.

Remember, not all UKIP candidates will be pro hunting-it'll be as with the Tories.

Nothing looks very promising.

 

[Twinkley Lights]

In many ways I struggle to imagine Labour winning with Miliband leading them, and even if they do, I predict that he'll probably be worse than Brown (that's beside the point though).

QUOTE]

That would be impossible I worked for him and all rumours were true about his demeanour and temper.

 

[happyhunter123]

In many ways I struggle to imagine Labour winning with Miliband leading them, and even if they do, I predict that he'll probably be worse than Brown (that's beside the point though).

QUOTE]

That would be impossible I worked for him and all rumours were true about his demeanour and temper.

Impossible in regards to Brown? I can sort of see....

But still Miliband seems to have all the charisma and leadership skills of a turnip.

 

[Judgemental]

We now have an acceptable alternative to vote for so far as hunting and rural affairs are concerned.

Chris Moncrieff in The Western Daily Press has a good piece today, which starts off as follows;

"Fred Karnows Army is beginning to look like a well drilled, efficent fighting force in comparison with the ramshackle, rickety coalition government".

He is so right and what have they done for country folk, nothing. At least UKIP might cause them to do something but I doubt it!

Perhaps use of the Statutory Instrument built into the Hunting Act.

I realised that we were simply not being led when George Osborne was seen weeping a Lady Thatcher's funeral - pathetic and Cameron was telling us we were all Thatcherite.

I was earwigging a couple of lads in their early 20's, at the time of the lady's death and they were at something of a loss as to who exactly she was. One said, "oh something in the last millenium". Almost in the same vein as Boadicea or Joan of Ark, sums it all up.

 

[Countryman]

Our right to hunt is not something that can be gambled with. It is vital that we have it back.

Some of you have suggested hunting is a trivial issue and should not influence who you vote for.

It may be trivial for some of you, but for many of us, Hunting is one of the most important things in our lives. It is part of our identity. And for me, I would not vote for an Anti-Hunting candidate even if I supported all of his other policies.

 

[Hunters]

David Cameron, whilst I acknowledge is in a difficult position with the Lib Dems, would seem to have the charisma and leadership skills of a mole & Ed Milliband, well he's excellent at sending me to sleep!

Nigel Farage is possibly a bit bonkers, but he at least seems innovative lively and has some fresh ideas.

If I was the Mfha, i would be cosying up to him & striking a deal, after all, the Mfha have a little army of leaflet droppers at their disposal....

 

[Herne]

A referendum by county, as promised by UKIP, would be hopeless.

In Cambridgeshire, for example, the pro-hunting people in rural areas would be competeing against the city dwellers of Peterborough and Cambridge. The same situation would pertain for most counties in England.

It may have escaped your notice that hunting people are a minority. If you want the Hunting Act repealed, then you need a party that will protect the rights of minorities to make their own moral choices, not one that will just crush them under the burden of public opinion - in the guise of allowing local referendums.

"Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner." - James Bovard

There is only one political party at present that offers any hope for the repeal of the Hunting Act, and that is the Conservative Party.

Yes, they have not repealed it yet – but that is because they do not have the power to do so, not because they do not have the will. Too many people make the mistake of forgetting that even though we have a Conservative Prime Minister , we do not have a Conservative Government – and it is only a Conservative Government that will repeal the Hunting Act.

Had Labour won in 2010, we would not be saying now “Oh, the Conservatives haven’t repealed the Hunting Act yet, so we won’t support them next time”. We would all recognise that they don’t have the power. Well, that wouldn’t be because Labour won, it would be because the Conservatives didn’t win – and that is exactly the same situation that we are in now.

Getting cross with someone for not doing something that they do not have the power to do is simply wasting your energy, Much better to spend that energy in giving them the power to do it.


As for the rest of UKIP’s policies, they don’t seem to have any more substance either.

When I was down in Eastleigh, supporting the pro-repeal candidate in the by-election this spring, I ended up “telling” at a polling station with 2 UKIP Councillors (who had both been elected as Tories, incidentally).

I asked them: “OK, so you want to get out of Europe. Fair enough, But, British agriculture has been constructed around the European grant system for the past 40 years. If you pull us out of Europe, that will be cut off overnight. How do you propose to prevent thousands of British farmers going to wall in the chaos?”

After looking confused for a while, the best they could offer was “Oh, well, the important thing is to make the decision. We can work out the details later.”

That is hardly a basis for sound government.

Because UKIP have no hope of winning a majority, they can promise pie-in-the-sky because they know they will never have to deliver.

Don’t fall for it, it’s all fairy dust.

Put your votes and your work into a party that actually has a chance of forming a Government.

Don’t waste it on meaningless protest votes – especially if that means that a party that you like even less than the one you are protesting against might win instead.

 

[Judgemental]

A referendum by county, as promised by UKIP, would be hopeless.

In Cambridgeshire, for example, the pro-hunting people in rural areas would be competeing against the city dwellers of Peterborough and Cambridge. The same situation would pertain for most counties in England.

It may have escaped your notice that hunting people are a minority. If you want the Hunting Act repealed, then you need a party that will protect the rights of minorities to make their own moral choices, not one that will just crush them under the burden of public opinion - in the guise of allowing local referendums.

"Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner." - James Bovard

There is only one political party at present that offers any hope for the repeal of the Hunting Act, and that is the Conservative Party.

Yes, they have not repealed it yet – but that is because they do not have the power to do so, not because they do not have the will. Too many people make the mistake of forgetting that even though we have a Conservative Prime Minister , we do not have a Conservative Government – and it is only a Conservative Government that will repeal the Hunting Act.

Had Labour won in 2010, we would not be saying now “Oh, the Conservatives haven’t repealed the Hunting Act yet, so we won’t support them next time”. We would all recognise that they don’t have the power. Well, that wouldn’t be because Labour won, it would be because the Conservatives didn’t win – and that is exactly the same situation that we are in now.

Getting cross with someone for not doing something that they do not have the power to do is simply wasting your energy, Much better to spend that energy in giving them the power to do it.


As for the rest of UKIP’s policies, they don’t seem to have any more substance either.

When I was down in Eastleigh, supporting the pro-repeal candidate in the by-election this spring, I ended up “telling” at a polling station with 2 UKIP Councillors (who had both been elected as Tories, incidentally).

I asked them: “OK, so you want to get out of Europe. Fair enough, But, British agriculture has been constructed around the European grant system for the past 40 years. If you pull us out of Europe, that will be cut off overnight. How do you propose to prevent thousands of British farmers going to wall in the chaos?”

After looking confused for a while, the best they could offer was “Oh, well, the important thing is to make the decision. We can work out the details later.”

That is hardly a basis for sound government.

Because UKIP have no hope of winning a majority, they can promise pie-in-the-sky because they know they will never have to deliver.

Don’t fall for it, it’s all fairy dust.

Put your votes and your work into a party that actually has a chance of forming a Government.

Don’t waste it on meaningless protest votes – especially if that means that a party that you like even less than the one you are protesting against might win instead.

Phew, by the time I reached the end I thought you were going to sign off as; "Rattled".

UKIP are a fact of life, they are novel, Mr Farage is entertaining, he tells jokes, he laughts and generates a jolly atmosphere around him.

Likes his pint and I rather like his yellow cords.

Seemingly so do the ladies, indeed I have been told they like the 'general presentation'.

 

[Twinkley Lights]

Impossible in regards to Brown? I can sort of see....

But still Miliband seems to have all the charisma and leadership skills of a turnip.

Better than the worm in the turnip yes I meant Brown

 

[JanetGeorge]

Phew, by the time I reached the end I thought you were going to sign off as; "Rattled".

UKIP are a fact of life, they are novel, Mr Farage is entertaining, he tells jokes, he laughts and generates a jolly atmosphere around him.

Likes his pint and I rather like his yellow cords.

Seemingly so do the ladies, indeed I have been told they like the 'general presentation'.

It's a good thing Herne replied to this before me because my reply would have been shorter - and rather than sounding 'rattled' I'd probably have been outright rude.

Farage may entertain you - and maybe at a party when I was pi**ed I'd find him amusing. As a politician, he falls flat on his face and makes some of the Labour MPs look slightly intelligent! If you want to give up hunting, waste a vote on UKIP! Otherwise, if you DO care about repeal, help ensure we have a CONSERVATIVE Government with a decent majority next time - it's our ONLY hope!

 

[Alec Swan]

In an ideal world, which this isn't, UKIP will give the Conservatives such a fright that they'll move towards us getting out of Europe, which let's face it would be the only use for UKIP, and then having done that, they can govern.

Cameron has decided that we need to re-evaluate our relationship with Europe. Does he honestly believe that the bulk of this country's voters are that stupid? We've been promised reform and improvement for over 30 years, without any improvement, and in-fact a deepening and worsening situation. The EU is heading for a huge crash anyway, so all that we have to do, is sit and wait, and then bale out when the seams leak to a greater extent than those who are doing the bailing, can cope with.

The UKIP are doing as every other party has done, making the right noises regarding rural issues, and as the other parties, they have no intention of following through with their pledges. As for allowing regional rural votes, have they taken leave of their senses? The void between rural and urban is already at a point where neither cares nor understands the view of the other, so just how they expect further division to help, is a mystery. I'm not too sure how this regional vote would work either, does it mean for instance, that we may be able to hunt in Devon, but not in Essex?

Farage and his party have and are providing one useful service; they're a wake up call to the other 3 parties.

Alec.

 

[Countryman]

Farage may entertaining and he may talk some common sense; however, the cold hard fact remains that a vote for him in a General Election is effectively a vote against Repeal.

If you really want the Tories to be rattled, fine get UKIP to win in the coming EU elections, but do not waste your votes on them in the General Election if you want to see Repeal.

 

[Judgemental]

It's a good thing Herne replied to this before me because my reply would have been shorter - and rather than sounding 'rattled' I'd probably have been outright rude.

Farage may entertain you - and maybe at a party when I was pi**ed I'd find him amusing. As a politician, he falls flat on his face and makes some of the Labour MPs look slightly intelligent! If you want to give up hunting, waste a vote on UKIP! Otherwise, if you DO care about repeal, help ensure we have a CONSERVATIVE Government with a decent majority next time - it's our ONLY hope!

Well now Mrs George, it's a few moons since we last had a joust and I always enjoy the challenge, especially as I have followed your career path since the mid 70's. True to form you come galloping to the defence of Herne and of course I too know the identity of Herne, so his piece is par for the course. But as Alec has said, UKIP is a wake up call.

However the one thing I will never do is tell folk how to vote and I do have to timidly suggest you are pushing boundaries.

That said, don't underestimate the British voting public, they are bored with the mainstream parties, UKIP provides a means to express their frustration with the 'same old rhetoric'.

Frankly I don't think Call-Me-Dave will lead the Tories come the general election. Although I seem to recollect reading something in possibly the Mail (OMG he reads the mail!) Simon Heffer thought that there could be an election in July. In which case it will be difficult for 'second horses' to have been brought on.

No in my humble opinion, I would rule nothing out and nothing in. My fellow Britons (Americans has more of a ring about it i.e. 'Fellow Americans' that is) are just in the mood to kick over the traces and throw the trap in the ditch.

Call-Me-Dave has to become more Farage than Farage.

The more folk say a vote for UKIP is a waste or an open door for Labour, the more folk are going to go down the road with them.

Finally Call-Me-Dave has no intention of repealing even with a majority. He might tinker, perhaps there is a hope, my personal 'wish list' hope that there is a chance that someone with some imagination might use the Statutory Instrument.

I will leave it there and anticipate, enter stage right, perhaps - Herne. Perish the thought I should suggest enter stage left That may be presumptious of me however the mention of the Statutory Instrument normally causes him to break cover.

 

[Countryman]

JM, I must admit I don't really understand why you doubt a Conservative Majority government would repeal the ban.

The vast majority of Tory MP's, both rural and urban, back repeal; the ones that do not can literally be counted on the fingers of your hands.

Most of these MP's sympathise with the countryside, hunts and hunting and instinctively feel repeal is important.

Furthermore, we then have a great number of farming and landowner MP's who are equally determined to see repeal, including Jim Paice, Richard Benyon etc.

Our DEFRA minister Owen Paterson was a keen hunter.

Cameron has ridden with several hunts and as we know he is a country boy at heart.

Simon Hart was head of the CA and an amateur Huntsman.

Nick Herbert, until recently Police minister, founded a new pack of Beagles and was a Joint-Master for many years.

Edward Garnier, the Solicitor General headed up the Repeal Comittee.

Lord Mancroft and Viscount Astor, both Tory Peers, both Chairmen of Foxhound packs.

All of the above will fight tooth and nail to ensure the ban is eventually repealed.

HOWEVER the vast majority of Tory MP's, Peers and supporters have a natural affinity for Hunting and so will be keen for repeal of the Hunting Act.

The Antis are petrified about a Tory Majority, they poured millions into trying to prevent it happening in 2010, because they know the Conservatives want Repeal.

 

[Judgemental]

JM, I must admit I don't really understand why you doubt a Conservative Majority government would repeal the ban.

The vast majority of Tory MP's, both rural and urban, back repeal; the ones that do not can literally be counted on the fingers of your hands.

Most of these MP's sympathise with the countryside, hunts and hunting and instinctively feel repeal is important.

Furthermore, we then have a great number of farming and landowner MP's who are equally determined to see repeal, including Jim Paice, Richard Benyon etc.

Our DEFRA minister Owen Paterson was a keen hunter.

Cameron has ridden with several hunts and as we know he is a country boy at heart.

Simon Hart was head of the CA and an amateur Huntsman.

Nick Herbert, until recently Police minister, founded a new pack of Beagles and was a Joint-Master for many years.

Edward Garnier, the Solicitor General headed up the Repeal Comittee.

Lord Mancroft and Viscount Astor, both Tory Peers, both Chairmen of Foxhound packs.

All of the above will fight tooth and nail to ensure the ban is eventually repealed.

HOWEVER the vast majority of Tory MP's, Peers and supporters have a natural affinity for Hunting and so will be keen for repeal of the Hunting Act.

The Antis are petrified about a Tory Majority, they poured millions into trying to prevent it happening in 2010, because they know the Conservatives want Repeal.

Countryman, I don't disagree with a word you have said.

However Hunting with hounds of live quarry has become a criminal offence.

If there is any sort of a repeal, there will be civil disorder by those opposed to hunting at every hunt meet and hunt up and down the country.

No government will take the risk of the consequences of an all out repeal to return the staus quo as to pre 2004. It would not surprise me if the Police said, "we really don't want the bother and hassel".

 

[Countryman]

JM, you raise an extremely interesting point, which really belongs in another thread, but it is that very issue of if we get repeal, what can be done to prevent popular opinion going against hunting and protests etc. Some might say nothing needs be done-pointing to falling Anti funds and supporters in the last 20 years, and rising in public support for hunting, while others have got plans for the Hunting Regulatory Body, Lord Donohughes Cruelty Bill (which might be a handy way to repeal the ban) and indeed the mythical draft of a law many sabs and monitors seem to believe exists which will prevent them from even observing Hunts, post repeal.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

If there is any sort of a repeal, there will be civil disorder by those opposed to hunting at every hunt meet and hunt up and down the country.

.......

"Civil Disorder"? Are you suggesting rioting hordes and looting and pillaging? The reality J_M, is that there are very few operational activists, of course they'll demonstrate and be a pain in the arse, but I'd suggest that they'd have little in the way of credibility, and with the number of packs which still exist, I'd suggest that they'd be spread a bit thin!

The real question is just how those who hunt achieve assurances from those who we vote in to parliament, that they will take a meaningful stance against an injustice, and correct the wrong. There needs to be a concentrated effort to bring pressure to bear upon our public servants.

In the unlikely event that UKIP gained a majority, they'd be far to busy extricating us from Europe, to bother with such triflings as a bunch of straw chewing yokels. No political party that I'm aware of, has ever reversed a major political decision of a previous government, and Labour will be no different. It would be better for the Conservatives to have rebellion within their ranks, remove us from the lunacy of the EU, and to reinstate our rights; two birds with one stone, so to speak!

Alec.

 

[flyingfeet]

I'm voting UKIP, because I want out of Europe - they haven't signed off a single set of accounts in 18 years!!!!

So we give them lots of money, it goes into a black hole and they are less accountable than our own dodgy MP's that we at least get to vote in

Plus I like UKIP's simplification of the tax system - it should be one fair rate for all. The current increasing burden system just encourages the uber rich to offshore it and pay nothing. When you are paid £5m like bankers, would you want to hand £2.5m over to the government or employ accountants and pay far less???