Ulcer help!

[J_sarahd]

My boy was diagnosed with ulcers in February. 4 weeks of sucralfate and cytotec tablets and he was back to his usual self & scoped clear. Came off medication and on to acid ease - girthiness presented itself again so I had a bit of the sucralfate left so he went back on that and he was great again. Unfortunately, I've ran out now after slowly weaning him off. He's back to being girthy and teeny bucks going into canter on the right rein (this was also a symptom that went when being treated for ulcers).

He's currently on 35ml of aloe juice and then the usual chaff before being ridden etc. He's living out 24/7 now and I read that the spring grass can cause girthiness. He's also being fed dengie hi-fi molasses free and baileys lo cal balancer - now on 1/2 cup of balancer and 1/2 stubbs of hi-fi twice a day.

Basically, what supplements do people recommend? Shall I up the aloe juice?

Don't want to get him rescoped as I'm 95% sure of the issue and would just like something to help him feel happier in his tummy.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I don't think 4 weeks on meds is that long for ulcers maybe speak to your vet? My friend swears by the Ron Fields ulcer supplement she has used it on 2 different horses both with good results.

 

[J_sarahd]

4 weeks was what the vet suggested before rescoping. He then came back clear and the vet said there was no need to carry on the medication. His ulcers were "very mild" according to the vet, hence just the 4 weeks perhaps?

Okay thanks I'll look into that supplement

 

[HappyHollyDays]

RonFields is excellent.

 

[J_sarahd]

Is it the ULC30EX Plus?

 

[Taliesan]

I used RonFields for my two and, although it did help them feel more comfortable, it didn't really knock the ulcers on the head in the way I would have liked.

I've had mine on Relyne GI for the past month and a half and the difference has been astounding. It is a lot more expensive than RonFields but I am more than happy to pay the money after witnessing the changes in both my horses.

I've got before and after videos of my two taken after a month of them being on Relyne if you wanted me to PM them across to you.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Ulcers are usually secondary to pain somewhere else in the body so unless that is resolved (KS and lameness seem to be typical) the ulcers will continue to come back. They can of course be management related (too long without hay , no turn out etc) but it seems that underlying physical issues are common.

 

[J_sarahd]

I used RonFields for my two and, although it did help them feel more comfortable, it didn't really knock the ulcers on the head in the way I would have liked.

I've had mine on Relyne GI for the past month and a half and the difference has been astounding. It is a lot more expensive than RonFields but I am more than happy to pay the money after witnessing the changes in both my horses.

I've got before and after videos of my two taken after a month of them being on Relyne if you wanted me to PM them across to you.

I've heard of Relyne before from a few people on social media and I wondered if it was good or just a fad, especially with it being so expensive. Obviously, if it does truly work, I'll spend the money but how long do the bottles last?

Ooh, yes please could you PM them across

 

[J_sarahd]

Ulcers are usually secondary to pain somewhere else in the body so unless that is resolved (KS and lameness seem to be typical) the ulcers will continue to come back. They can of course be management related (too long without hay , no turn out etc) but it seems that underlying physical issues are common.

Vets didn't think this was the case for my boy. He had a very rough start to life and at rising 8, he's had at least 7 owners since birth (not including the stud he was born at) and was allegedly bought off the meat man in a terrible state by one of his previous owners. They think that he's always had them due to the stress of this & I was just the first to pick up on it. They said the fact that they cleared up so quickly with medication doesn't make them think it's pain related. He's also sound (always had been, never had a day's lameness since being with me - although I do know if it's bilateral it will be harder to detect) and not showing any other symptoms besides ulcer/tummy issues.

However, I will of course be monitoring and will ring the vet if there are any other symptoms. Physical issues was of course my first concern, but having spoken to my vet, it seems on this case it may not be.

 

[Sossigpoker]

It may well be stress related then.
My horse had ulcers that went with stifle lameness and a severe case of the wobblers- initially headed after 4 weeks too. So i don't buy the "can't be pain related as cleared so quickly " argument.
But it sounds like they could well be stress related as he's not had an easy life. ?

 

[Carrottom]

I have stopped feeding my sensitive tummy boy the Dengie chaff this year as the chopped alfalfa in it feels really spikey. I noticed it first in the molasses free so changed to hi-fi but the last bag of that felt really bad so now he goes without chaff.

 

[Muddywellies]

Please speak with your vet. Ulcers are incredibly painful and tricky to treat and manage. Absolutely no supplement will cure ulcers. Supplements can help with digestion, settle the tummy etc, but will never cure ulcers.

 

[J_sarahd]

It may well be stress related then.
My horse had ulcers that went with stifle lameness and a severe case of the wobblers- initially headed after 4 weeks too. So i don't buy the "can't be pain related as cleared so quickly " argument.
But it sounds like they could well be stress related as he's not had an easy life. ?

I am leaning towards it being stress-related but obviously no definitive way of knowing. With his past, the vet said that that's the most likely cause. But hopefully, as he's not being sold again and lives a relative stress-free life now, that'll help.

I have stopped feeding my sensitive tummy boy the Dengie chaff this year as the chopped alfalfa in it feels really spikey. I noticed it first in the molasses free so changed to hi-fi but the last bag of that felt really bad so now he goes without chaff.

I've read about chaff having negative affects to ulcers but was told to feed him chaff before being ridden. Do you feed yours anything before being ridden?

Please speak with your vet. Ulcers are incredibly painful and tricky to treat and manage. Absolutely no supplement will cure ulcers. Supplements can help with digestion, settle the tummy etc, but will never cure ulcers.

He's been seen by the vet and scoped clear. The vet said to go forward with supplements but I've yet to find anything that works.

 

[Ellibelli]

I think you might need to consider if the ulcers are back and therefore none of the supplements are working. The trouble is once they've had ulcers they're extremely prone to getting them again, especially if they are stressy types, even with the best ulcer friendly lifestyle

 

[Carrottom]

Mine has a hay net all the time and I usually tie up to groom and tack up so he is munching away.

 

[Bellaboo18]

I think you might need to consider if the ulcers are back and therefore none of the supplements are working. The trouble is once they've had ulcers they're extremely prone to getting them again, especially if they are stressy types, even with the best ulcer friendly lifestyle

It's this for me. The ulcers sound like they're returning, no supplement will cure them.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have stopped feeding my sensitive tummy boy the Dengie chaff this year as the chopped alfalfa in it feels really spikey. I noticed it first in the molasses free so changed to hi-fi but the last bag of that felt really bad so now he goes without chaff.

You could give grass chaff, instead, that isn't as sharp.

 

[PurBee]

If he’s just gone to a 24/7 turnout schedule it could be that change has brought about an ulcery episode..?

Obviously i dont know if it was a slow introduction to 24/7 grass or sudden...but mine, who dont have ulcers, still show behaviour shifts and slight gastro changes when going onto more grass. I try so hard to gently introduce it but still, there’s the first 2 weeks of being somewhat less than chilled. Think it’s the change in bacteria from grazing/sugars/moving more etc.

Your boy, due to his history, probably has an inbuilt stress response to ‘change’ and thus prone to translating as ulcers, even with mild changes, such as more grazing time...?

I hope you find he settles soon.
I did read that aloe vera in a study showed to help heal ulcers. It was a while back, so would have to hunt for it again. I used it on my more ’high octane’ gelding when he had an episode of being tetchy and ulcery, and i think i gave around 100mls roughly - from memory, bought 2 1ltr bottles which lasted around 2 weeks. It seemed to help him so i dont think aloe is completely without benefit. I bought fresh squeezed juice, inner gel, without rind - rather than the ‘fake‘ aloe juice thats flooding the aloe market thats really dried aloe leaf powder dissolved in water.

 

[J_sarahd]

It's this for me. The ulcers sound like they're returning, no supplement will cure them.

People who suspect the ulcers are returning - do you recommend getting him rescoped and doing all that again or just treating as if they were back again?

If he’s just gone to a 24/7 turnout schedule it could be that change has brought about an ulcery episode..?

Obviously i dont know if it was a slow introduction to 24/7 grass or sudden...but mine, who dont have ulcers, still show behaviour shifts and slight gastro changes when going onto more grass. I try so hard to gently introduce it but still, there’s the first 2 weeks of being somewhat less than chilled. Think it’s the change in bacteria from grazing/sugars/moving more etc.

Your boy, due to his history, probably has an inbuilt stress response to ‘change’ and thus prone to translating as ulcers, even with mild changes, such as more grazing time...?

I hope you find he settles soon.
I did read that aloe vera in a study showed to help heal ulcers. It was a while back, so would have to hunt for it again. I used it on my more ’high octane’ gelding when he had an episode of being tetchy and ulcery, and i think i gave around 100mls roughly - from memory, bought 2 1ltr bottles which lasted around 2 weeks. It seemed to help him so i dont think aloe is completely without benefit. I bought fresh squeezed juice, inner gel, without rind - rather than the ‘fake‘ aloe juice thats flooding the aloe market thats really dried aloe leaf powder dissolved in water.

This was my original thought. The girthiness seemed to return once he was out 24/7 (which was only the 28th March). Before this, the acid ease etc didn't cause him to be girthy. He was difficult to get on (that's all sorted now and he will stand at the mounting block with a loose rein) and difficult to 'catch' in the stable - not been tried since being out as I bring in and tie up instead of putting in his stable. But the little bucks into right canter weren't occurring post-medication even on the acid ease.

He's currently on Omega's Aloe Juice. I will up it as I've heard very good things about it helping ulcery horses.

He's also had a change of girth on saddlers recommendation to a prolite girth. Not sure if that's relevant but it did coincide with the behaviour.

 

[Bellaboo18]

I'd say go straight to treating tbh, you know what worked last time. Did you gradually taper him off last time?

 

[J_sarahd]

Okay, I’ve only seen sucralfate being sold by Abler. Is this right?

First time I just stopped as per vet recommendation but second time I did taper off gradually.

 

[Squeak]

People who suspect the ulcers are returning - do you recommend getting him rescoped and doing all that again or just treating as if they were back again?



This was my original thought. The girthiness seemed to return once he was out 24/7 (which was only the 28th March). Before this, the acid ease etc didn't cause him to be girthy. He was difficult to get on (that's all sorted now and he will stand at the mounting block with a loose rein) and difficult to 'catch' in the stable - not been tried since being out as I bring in and tie up instead of putting in his stable. But the little bucks into right canter weren't occurring post-medication even on the acid ease.

He's currently on Omega's Aloe Juice. I will up it as I've heard very good things about it helping ulcery horses.

He's also had a change of girth on saddlers recommendation to a prolite girth. Not sure if that's relevant but it did coincide with the behaviour.

Have you got your old girth that you can use for a few rides to see if that helps? I'd be wanting to keep everything as similar as possible so that you've got less variables.

 

[J_sarahd]

Yeah I still have the old girth so can swap back to that.

I didn’t even think about it being the girth until last night. I mean if it is I will ring my saddler and see what she suggests as she did recommend the prolite girth and I got the right size etc!

 

[PurBee]

Yeah I still have the old girth so can swap back to that.

I didn’t even think about it being the girth until last night. I mean if it is I will ring my saddler and see what she suggests as she did recommend the prolite girth and I got the right size etc!

Horses can be so sensitive to change, we all end up wracking our brains ‘what changed?’ when things occur with them. It could well be the girth change, esp. if he wasnt bucking into canter after stopping ulcer medication, but started at girth change.
Because of recent history of ulcers youre bound to think its them returning, when it could well be the girth.

Im amazed how sensitive they are to be honest! i’ve got brushes mine prefer more than others. To me, they’re all ‘massaging’ type brushes, nothing overtly harsh, but still, they have preferences i cant fathom the reason why!

Regarding omega aloe juice - they say: ‘Omega Equine’s Aloe Juice contains 100% pure, high-grade, organic aloe vera inner leaf gel,‘ - that wording is not clear. Is it fresh pressed aloe vera juice or 100% pure organic gel dried and dissolved with water to create a ‘pure juice’. I’d contact them and ask personally to specify exactly. These companies are marketing wordsmith tricksters and its a minefield finding truly ‘pure pressed aloe juice’.

 

[J_sarahd]

Horses can be so sensitive to change, we all end up wracking our brains ‘what changed?’ when things occur with them. It could well be the girth change, esp. if he wasnt bucking into canter after stopping ulcer medication, but started at girth change.
Because of recent history of ulcers youre bound to think its them returning, when it could well be the girth.

Im amazed how sensitive they are to be honest! i’ve got brushes mine prefer more than others. To me, they’re all ‘massaging’ type brushes, nothing overtly harsh, but still, they have preferences i cant fathom the reason why!

Regarding omega aloe juice - they say: ‘Omega Equine’s Aloe Juice contains 100% pure, high-grade, organic aloe vera inner leaf gel,‘ - that wording is not clear. Is it fresh pressed aloe vera juice or 100% pure organic gel dried and dissolved with water to create a ‘pure juice’. I’d contact them and ask personally to specify exactly. These companies are marketing wordsmith tricksters and its a minefield finding truly ‘pure pressed aloe juice’.

That makes complete sense. My head went straight to ulcers again instead of thinking about any little changes I've made! He's definitely a sensitive boy - the vet commented on it when he was scoped for his ulcers (she said his ulcers were very mild and that the majority of horses wouldn't have reacted to them) and our previous saddler did when his saddle got marginally too tight and he basically threw himself on the floor every time I tried to ride him. It's good in a way because at least I know there's something wrong before it's potentially too late or too expensive.

I will be changing my girth back and monitoring his behaviour for a week or so. If it is his girth then that's definitely much, much better than it being any physical problems. Just a bit gutting because they're expensive girths (and they look so nice imo).

Okay, great thanks for the advice. I'll contact them and find out.

 

[Melody Grey]

If your vets and insurance are involved, they’ll probably want a re-scope? Mine always have.

Don’t under-estimate the effects of grass, particularly changes in grazing routine. I might be tempted to try to settle the horses tummy and routine for a couple of weeks and then see where you are? Aloe Vera or off the shelf supplements might help that process? I’ve found Protexin quick fix (in a tube) useful in this situation.


Abler products have worked for mine in the past and I would use them again if out of other options, although be aware that importing them into the UK is illegal. There are threads on here about it if you search.

 

[J_sarahd]

If your vets and insurance are involved, they’ll probably want a re-scope? Mine always have.

Don’t under-estimate the effects of grass, particularly changes in grazing routine. I might be tempted to try to settle the horses tummy and routine for a couple of weeks and then see where you are? Aloe Vera or off the shelf supplements might help that process? I’ve found Protexin quick fix (in a tube) useful in this situation.


Abler products have worked for mine in the past and I would use them again if out of other options, although be aware that importing them into the UK is illegal. There are threads on here about it if you search.

He was rescoped 4 weeks after his first scope and it came back completely clear. I thought that that would then rule out being insured again for ulcers?

Okay great thank you. That sounds like a good idea on top of checking to see if it's the girth.

Oh yeah I've read a lot of threads on here and posts on the Horses with Ulcers FB group about Abler and it being illegal to import.

 

[Melody Grey]

He was rescoped 4 weeks after his first scope and it came back completely clear. I thought that that would then rule out being insured again for ulcers?

My experience with several horses has been that the ulcers claim has been open for 12 months from first diagnosis or until we’ve reached our claim ceiling- nothing to my knowledge prevents you continuing the claim if they’re back (within the timeframe and claim
Allowance). Obviously do check with your insurer though!!

 

[J_sarahd]

My experience with several horses has been that the ulcers claim has been open for 12 months from first diagnosis or until we’ve reached our claim ceiling- nothing to my knowledge prevents you continuing the claim if they’re back. Obviously do check with your insurer though!!

That’s very interesting. I must’ve got my wires a bit crossed. Will check with insurer!!

 

[Sossigpoker]

That’s very interesting. I must’ve got my wires a bit crossed. Will check with insurer!!

This is the case with all insurers I know about. Once the have accepted the claim they will pay out on it for 12 months or until claim limit is reached but some insurers expect you to have a policy continuing with them. So if your policy came up for renewal at 6 months into the claim they would expect you to renew or they wouldn't continue to pay out.