ulcers will not go away!!!

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Deltofe2493

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my mare went in for ulcer follow up this morning and her ulcers are bloody back! not as bad as before but significant enough for vet to want to treat. Mare is insured, but this will run out soon, so wondering what people have done to manage ulcers. are these something that can flare up / down?

She hasn't lost any weight and coat looking lovely & shiny. Eating well, but is sensitive to tack up.

There are a few possible causes

1. pain from kissing spine (although no behavioural issues when ridden - my saddle was fitted on Saturday and saddler happy)
2. currently treating negative pedal angles, on round 2 of wedged shoes
3. moved yards and now home alone overnight as she is on controlled excercise
4. Feeding times - sometimes fed later in the evening due to me coming from the office, and at weekends as I work late. The difference is never more than 1 hour.

She has ad lib hay, and scoop of chaff before excercise. I am thinking maybe treat her whilst she is on controlled exercise for the next 5 weeks, then as she can start canter work (if approved by the vet) start turning her out, get her back in full work and decent routine and re-scope Sept / October to maybe eliminate the social stress side and pain from hooves.

What have other people done in rehab circumstances / ulcers that just will not budge??
 
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has she scoped clear previously?

My mare took basically 3 rounds of omeprazole + Sucralfate before we got a clear scope which was much longer than anticipated by the vet. just asking because if you didn't get a clear scope then they may have just re-flared with the change in management rather than come back, as such.

A friend's horse has a flare whenever he travels so it can definitely be something that comes and goes with some of them.
 
she wasn't completely clear, and we were still on sucralfate when this happened. She's been off the paste as we ran out of prescribed amount a couple of weeks ago now.

Is it possible for some horses to never be completely clear and something that just needs to be managed?
 
Mine had 4 lots of treatment, cost £6000. No change, still hind gut, still as bad as they can be. I now feed Aloe Vera Juice ( from Holland and Barrett) and GastroKind from Science Supplements in the winter. Vet said a) worst she had ever seen and b) he is one of only three horses who have not responded to treatment! To be fair apart from occasionally being evil to have his saddle on and lethargy sometimes he is not too bad.
 
this makes me feel a bit better! I am feeling so despaired as I literally feel like I am doing everything I can and it's still not good enough. And I'm not rich either!!!
 
Fieldlife said:
Do you mean she has no company at night? Sadly if so, I think this could be a likely cause for current flare.
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thank you. yeah they all go out and she obviously cannot as she is on controlled exercise. can ulcers heal on their own? i.e. as and when she starts going out can they get better, or will they always be there/worsen if I don't treat?
 
Patterdale said:
I would give omperazole from Abler and then after that just treat the horse, not the scope. I would not rescope. If she’s looking well and happy in her work then just carry on at a level she’s happy with.
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In case anyone still doesn't know, it's not legal to import Abler drugs.
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Deltofe2493 said:
thank you. yeah they all go out and she obviously cannot as she is on controlled exercise. can ulcers heal on their own? i.e. as and when she starts going out can they get better, or will they always be there/worsen if I don't treat?
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How far away are the other horses? I think you might need to give the her management a rethink. Not manage horses would be happy being the only one stabled whilst all others are out at night. That is fairly likely to be compounding ulcer problem.

Options might be:

Bring a horse in at night on rotation to be company, borrow one if you need to
Put her in a fieldshelter / field pen at night where can see others
move to a yard where some horses are stabled at night whilst she is on controlled exercise.

Think you are possibly wasting money treating ulcers, whilst she is stabled with no company at night.
 
It’s crazy how precious they are!

would a radio work?

I can speak to the owner maybe for shelter and see what vet says but she’s not really fit enough yet to be out.

She can officially start turn out from beginning of August, so not too much longer to wait. Vet has advised treat, rescope, turnout and go from there.

I’ve just moved to this yard, really like it and even moving is an expensive so would like to avoid that if possible. Rock and a very hard place.
 
She was on box rest from April for inflamed proximal suspensory in the left hind, plus potential cannon bone bruise / fracture so slow rehab programme in place to build her back up (in trot phase now)If she starts galloping around putting pressure on areas that aren’t strong enough then could do herself another injury.

it’s difficult to know whether it’s the kissing spine, company or pedal bone angles that are the instigators, or a combination of all!
 
Deltofe2493 said:
She was on box rest from April for inflamed proximal suspensory in the left hind, plus potential cannon bone bruise / fracture so slow rehab programme in place to build her back up (in trot phase now)If she starts galloping around putting pressure on areas that aren’t strong enough then could do herself another injury.

it’s difficult to know whether it’s the kissing spine, company or pedal bone angles that are the instigators, or a combination of all!
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I'd suspect a combination but KS seems to be one of the most common causes for ulcers.
Will she be getting treatment for that ?
 
I feel your pain. My 13 year old mare has a range of issues including KS, mild hock arthritis and issues with her suspensories. She had really bad ulcers, which were treated with 8 weeks of Omeprazole injections and Sulfacrate, alongside having hocks and SI medicated, and shockwave therapy (to the tune of about £8k in insurance)
Top part of the stomach now completely clear, but she's still got some pyloric ulceration, nowhere near as bad as before. Basically, they can't give her bute to help with her physical issues because the ulcers would likely come back as bad as before. So basically have been advised not to ride her. Gutted!
 
ycbm said:
It isn't precious to be anxious if you are hard wired to know that the weakest horse in the herd is going to be breakfast for the lions, and you are the last horse left.
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I’d talk to your YO how you think ulcers back due to stress of being in alone at night and see if she has any suggestions.

If you only have limited funds for treating ulcers, I’d wait until she’s got company at night, as might be wasting money.

Really tricky though as ulcer pain might make her change her posture and put more pressure on suspensories.

Have you asked vet their views on stress of no night company causing ulcers to flare versus soundness risks of putting her in a pen in sight of others?
 
Deltofe2493 said:
Is it possible for some horses to never be completely clear and something that just needs to be managed?
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Vet at hospital told me that he suspected my horse might be genetically prone to ulcers and we needed to manage rather than treat. He’d had a couple of courses of treatment and scoped clear between but they kept recurring. His management had always been ulcer friendly.

He now gets Science Supplements Gastrokind and still lives out 24/7 with company. (I do think that’s key to ulcer management). At the moment, he’s on a quarter dose of Peptizole as he’s on a bit of a diet (still turned out full time, but on quite short grass with a bit of hay to supplement). It’s difficult to balance weight management and ulcer risk, but vet suggested the quarter dose idea for times of risk and I’m happy enough to go down that route.
 
In my experience vets are pretty understanding if they are told that box rest is causing problems. There's lots you could do with electric fencing, etc, so she could go out at night with company. I think you're going to need to get points 1, 2 and 3 sorted, as any or all of them are issues for ulcers.
 
Thank you. Will look into sorting a stable sized paddock for her. There's one field not in use and YO is happy for me to reduce its size with some fencing. I will speak to vet and hopefully she approves.
 
Deltofe2493 said:
Thank you. Will look into sorting a stable sized paddock for her. There's one field not in use and YO is happy for me to reduce its size with some fencing. I will speak to vet and hopefully she approves.
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Sounds great, keeping fingers crossed she settles in paddock. Lovely to have helpful YO.
 
Fieldlife said:
Sounds great, keeping fingers crossed she settles in paddock. Lovely to have helpful YO.
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YO has said she will need to go out in the day first to be monitored which is understandable. How long would be recommended to do this for?

What about stable mirrors for the time being whilst she gets re accustomed to field life?
 
Deltofe2493 said:
YO has said she will need to go out in the day first to be monitored which is understandable. How long would be recommended to do this for?

What about stable mirrors for the time being whilst she gets re accustomed to field life?
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Depends - will she have field neighbours during the day?

What time do night horses go out? I would maybe put her in pen at same time they are out and watch her first few hours and then on and off until dark? Possibly a bit of oral sedation if you think might be silly? Yard owner might be happy with this if you do the watching?

I bought and installed inexpensive acrylic mirrors in stable from ebay. Seem to help with my stress weaving horse at the time a bit.
 
Fieldlife said:
Depends - will she have field neighbours during the day?

What time do night horses go out? I would maybe put her in pen at same time they are out and watch her first few hours and then on and off until dark? Possibly a bit of oral sedation if you think might be silly? Yard owner might be happy with this if you do the watching?

I bought and installed inexpensive acrylic mirrors in stable from ebay. Seem to help with my stress weaving horse at the time a bit.
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There are other grass liveries / riding school ponies that are out so she won't be completely on her own. Can't wait to get this set up and hopefully have a happier horse! Will DEFINITELY sedate, at least for the first couple of days.

Annoyingly we're not allowed to drill into the stable walls.. is there another way to stick these up? I am the least handy DIY person!
 
Goldenstar said:
IME horses whose ulcers don’t resolve have pain from something .
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its definitely a possibility.. process of elmination. Get her turned out first and see where we are! I am obviously hoping this is the root cause as I am nervous to start messing around with her spine.
 
Can you put her out to grass for several months,shoes off preferably,until next May at the earliest, with a companion or two. Things should resolve with time, Dr green and company.
 
Make sure your small paddock fences are suitably tall…I turned out one horse post operation into a small paddock whereupon she promptly walked up to the fence and jumped out!

I think the stress of being in alone will definitely not help, so hopefully the paddock will help in resolving the ulcers. One of mine has come back from loan with lami - the ponies who share the field with the barn have been choosing to stay with her on a rota - she is never alone, always has a buddy in the ‘free’ area of the barn next to her stable.
 
Deltofe2493 said:
There are other grass liveries / riding school ponies that are out so she won't be completely on her own. Can't wait to get this set up and hopefully have a happier horse! Will DEFINITELY sedate, at least for the first couple of days.

Annoyingly we're not allowed to drill into the stable walls.. is there another way to stick these up? I am the least handy DIY person!
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There are heavy duty wall fixings available on amazon. I have hung some large picture using them on amazon. Try googling mirror mounting tape
 
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