UNBELIEVABLE!!! RE- people who don't wrap their horses up 'cosy warm'

In my experience many horses with a partial clip are fine turned out in the cold, it cold/wind/wet that does the damage.

The owners are probably trying to boost the horses metabolism to avoid it being overweight or laminitic, and it may well just be a 'hot' horse that doesn't particularly need rugs.

Best to know the individual horse and the reasoning behind management practices before condemning them I think.
 
jesstickle said:
What kind of clip does it actually have?
You're being very cryptic considering you're so convinced you are right!
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I'm not sure whether that's three or four times she's been asked now. I suspect we'll not get an accurate answer, if any answer:D
 
Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions and I am by no means preaching (just mildly ranting), I am allowed to over-react at things that I am passionate about and apologies to anyone that feels offended by it! ;) Now, as an industry professional with several years of experience would say - Each to thier own - but I know what works.
 
Yep I am. Over rugging from sept til april causes vit D deficiency, which in some cases can be fatal.

They love having the sun on their backs, and you will tend to find they will find the brightest spot and all have a siesta together.

You cannot compare humans and horses heat/feed/weight wise - people do and this is how we end up with obese/lame/overhot horses.

Ive got a 16 yr old tb in my field, whose owners were originally horrified when i was down taking her MW off every morning thats its dry. They now say she has never looked better, is holding weight (not sweating it off :rolleyes:) and has no rub marks or need for those god awful stretchy pyjama things people truss them up in.
 
Winklepoker said:
You are right... some do have a very dense coats but others have that very dense coat clipped off to 0.8mm!!! - what insulation to they have then? Would you throw your husband outside naked to shed his Christmas love handles then!!! Im not sure which is more wrong in this instance.
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i would thrive at this sight...and just laugh!

Mine is rugged up, at the moment is in his heavy weight, but normally in this weather would just have a light weight or medium on, only reason he doesnt is because he recently trashed the medium, and the light its too cold.

Granted he is a big fluffy cob, clipped 2 months ago and its all back ten fold, its always a guess weather or not the rug is right. Tbh if he wasnt mostly all white, i would have him naked too!
 
touchstone said:
In my experience many horses with a partial clip are fine turned out in the cold, it cold/wind/wet that does the damage.

The owners are probably trying to boost the horses metabolism to avoid it being overweight or laminitic, and it may well just be a 'hot' horse that doesn't particularly need rugs.

Best to know the individual horse and the reasoning behind management practices before condemning them I think.
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I am certain this isnt the thought process in this case ;)
 
I think everyone is going to have different opinions on this, me personally wouldn't put my horses out clipped without a rug on. Each to their own as they say. As for the OH, I have been tempted to leave him in the garden naked on a cold night :p
 
Could I hijack briefly?? :D
I want to clip my fine TB, he is in a lightweight and middleweight at the moment, (unclipped) but I want to give him a full clip, do you think it is too cold to clip him now then? You all seem to think horses are very capable of keeping themselves warm... and he does seem fairly toasty at the moment.
It seems so tricky of finding the line between warm enough and too warm!....
 
The horse has a modified clip, which has left a patch over his rump, so from the wither down to what seems to turn into a blanket clip at the back. He would condition score in on the poor side of moderate and the owners cannot afford the extra hay/food to supplement this.
 
Winklepoker said:
The horse has a modified clip, which has left a patch over his rump, so from the wither down to what seems to turn into a blanket clip at the back. He would condition score in on the poor side of moderate and the owners cannot afford the extra hay/food to supplement this.
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Maybe they can't afford a rug either ;)
 
Mines got 2 rugs on. Hes got a blanket clip (and also an old full clip growing in) and is always rugged up- and hes a Fell pony! I feel sorry for some horses with no rugs (when its very cold ie. below 4 degrees) , even a 100/200 would be better than nothing
 
Winklepoker said:
The horse has a modified clip, which has left a patch over his rump, so from the wither down to what seems to turn into a blanket clip at the back. He would condition score in on the poor side of moderate and the owners cannot afford the extra hay/food to supplement this.
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So what has the the YO said about the condition of the horse and the fact that it's not rugged??

(By the way, I'm with you all the way on this one).
 
dressagelove said:
Maybe they can't afford a rug either ;)
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then maybe they should not have clipped the horse, as they must have either paid some one to clip it or are able to afford clippers of their own , thus they should be able to afford a rug.

martlin said:
and breathe!
Just to say, though, one of my horses has been bathed/washed with cold water from a hose all her life at all times of year and never suffered any damage from that. And we are talking winters much harsher than UK ;)
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More often than not the damage shows up later in life .
Arthritis shows up when your older I should know years of having my hands in cold buckets- troughs only shows up now. Most likely be the same for the horse.

Mine are wrapped up accordingly to 3 factors I take into consideration:

A : the weather
B : how warm / cold the horse is
C : type of clip

If I check and horses is warm then fine if he is luke warm or cold i up their rugs.

I find to many people rug up heavy when weather is cold and not how the horse is.
 
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Horses are not humans, stop treating them like they were. Drives me mad when people say "I am cold, hence my horse has to be cold too". What do they teach you over there? ;)
 
There is never going to be universal agreement on rugging or not depending on your view. As long as youre happy with what youre doing with yours, really, what others do with theirs is up to them.
I think there are faults on both sides, to see horses over rugged on mild days is annoying, to see it when the suns blazing is cruel.( no im not talking about fly rugs ).
Also to see horses who are shivering in the cold and wet in poor condition with no natural shelter is awful, im not talking about the hardies with fuzzy coats who can cope very well.or the well covered guys who manage just fine, but SOME horses do need rugs on, especially of theyre on exposed land with poor shelter from the elements or are older and not holding condition as well as they used to.
As for rugging a horse whose clipped, id expect the owners to know if their part clipped horse needed a rug, but IMO if you fully clip your horse, removing their winter coat you should rug appropriate to the conditions.
At the end of the day people will do what they do with their horses, and unless you own them, you have no say.
 
Turitea said:
Horses are not humans, stop treating them like they were. Drives me mad when people say "I am cold, hence my horse has to be cold too". What do they teach you over there? ;)
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Common sense, mainly.

If you clip the hair off an animal (that is programmed to grow longer and denser hair during the winter months to offer protection from the elements), then it is incumbent upon us to ensure that that protective layer is replaced by something else.

Ergo, you put a rug on.

Simples :rolleyes:
 
If you know for a fact that this horse is too cold and is struggling why don't you, your YO, YM or another horse lover dig out a warmer rug to put on the horse. And the YO or YM talk to the owner about the situation.

I'm one of the cruel ones as our native lives out unrugged 24/7 with lots of shelter and able to go in and out of his stable as he pleases. No rug I put on him would be better than the superb insulation he has grown for himself. My other horses are rugged lightly, none are clipped.
 
They did indeed pay someone, I would agree with the financial comment also but not for me to assume as I can only see their horse and not their bank statements.

Amymay, YO doesnt get involved, it is strictly DIY -

I reiterate again, that these are purely my humble opinions.
 
I admit I haven't read the whole thread.

I just wanted to say that minus 3 is not very cold in the grand scheme of things. People have horses in countries with cold winters and they do just fine. That being said, wet and cold/wind is not a good combination.

In other countries, unclipped horses live out in a lot colder than minus 3 but would usually have ad lib hay and access to shelter.

Clipped horses would not be as resilient but it also depends on how long they are out for and what the weather is like. A couple of hours on a sunny minus 3 day may be a lot better than out in +3 and freezing rain, since they are less "water resistant" when clipped.
 
Stop, wait, I have a solution: HHO meetup with representatives from all factions to assess actual body temperature of horse, whether it looks cold and miserable, and if so what should be done. Then repair to pub for warming drinks by hot fire, after sufficient quantity of which everyone will have forgotten their differences - or passed out.

*dreams*
 
Leviathan said:
More often than not the damage shows up later in life .
Arthritis shows up when your older I should know years of having my hands in cold buckets- troughs only shows up now. Most likely be the same for the horse.
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She's 18, with a LOT of highish level mileage on her clock and apart from a fairly traumatic injury to her stifle, is sound as a pound... she's a tough sort, bred for the job.
 
amymay said:
Common sense, mainly.

If you clip the hair off an animal (that is programmed to grow longer and denser hair during the winter months to offer protection from the elements), then it is incumbent upon us to ensure that that protective layer is replaced by something else.

Ergo, you put a rug on.

Simples :rolleyes:
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It's not common sense to put a HW rug on a pony with a thick coat who is merely bib clipped, though... It is hardly common sense to presume that because a human is cold, a horse will be too. It is common sense to look at the individual animal and assess how much you've clipped off, how well it's holding condition, how much natural protection remains. I don't think Turitea was promoting leaving a fine, fully clipped, shivering horse out in sub zero temperatures, tbf...
 
Mine's got all her body hair off (head and legs on) and is only in 200g PE rug (with neck in field, neck off in stable), she sweats in anything heavier! I had her in a 300g but she had sweat rash so had to downgrade.

And she is out for 14hrs in a frozen field with no hay at all and she is very well covered (has ad lib hay in stbale at night). She gets balancer and a bit of low calorie chaff and that's it. She is very much alive and kicking on this ;)

I think if they have more than a bib/trace then they need some rugging but I hate over-rugging. Horses should not feel toasty - just nicely warm IMO.
 
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