Uncontrolled dogs (again)

4x4

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Am I unreasonable? If you were out hacking on a private track (I do have permission) and saw someone calling a dog, wwyd? I stopped and asked if they had lost a dog. Yes from over there somewher - so I am ridng towards them still, saying I haven't seen a dog when "whoosh"
aforementioned dog flies through the undergrowth flat out, and sort of growls/barks at my horse in passing on the narrow track...I sort of shrieked "whoo" (was meant to be whoa but it came out wrong), only to be met with a tirade that the dog was scared by me shreaking...I tried to point out that the dog was out of control (a working collie) but there were 2 of them, one of me and I got nowhere. Rant over- thanks for sharing!
 
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I agree with amymay - I too think the dog owners over reacted. I would probably have more to say if it wasn't a private track i.e. dogs being on leads etc.
 
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Am I unreasonable? If you were out hacking on a private track (I do have permission) and saw someone calling a dog, wwyd? I stopped and asked if they had lost a dog. Yes from over there somewher - so I am ridng towards them still, saying I haven't seen a dog when "whoosh"
aforementioned dog flies through the undergrowth flat out, and sort of growls/barks at my horse in passing on the narrow track...I sort of shrieked "whoo" (was meant to be whoa but it came out wrong), only to be met with a tirade that the dog was scared by me shreaking...I tried to point out that the dog was out of control (a working collie) but there were 2 of them, one of me and I got nowhere. Rant over- thanks for sharing!


Dangerous dogs are dogs that are not controlled by the owner. They chase horses or other animals and they make themselves a nuisance by physically assaulting adults, children or other animals. They threaten the aforementioned with growling or barking and are extremely dangerous. This doesn't seem to be the case in your situation.

In my situation I had an incident of the same dog 'verbally attacking' my horse at my local riding club on land that you were allowed to ride over three times. He was leaping up in front of my horse barking and growling and he WAS NOT PLAYING! Each time I reported it to the office at the riding club and each time the incident was minimised. Yet had my horse been frightened he could have taken flight and bolted causign injury or death to me the rider, or anyone or anything else that was inn his way. The gate to the driveway had been left open (it was off its hinges at the time) and the driveway led to a main road. I dread what could have happened had it been a young horse or a young person who couldn't stop their pony from bolting.
 
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Having been bitten badly by a dog myself in a similar scenario to what you describe, I would say you are right to be wary. Two dogs literally came out of woodland onto the public road I was running along with no warning and bit me. At least the owners were apologetic, but given that they were already wearing electric collars, why were they off the lead?
 

WelshD

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If the owner called the dog and the dog returned to the owner (as it would seem) albeit very fast and coming suddenly through the hedges then I dont think you have much cause for complaint with regards to the dog being uncontrolled

Yes the owner's reaction was a bit much though
 

JFTD-WS

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If the owner called the dog and the dog returned to the owner (as it would seem) albeit very fast and coming suddenly through the hedges then I dont think you have much cause for complaint with regards to the dog being uncontrolled

Yes the owner's reaction was a bit much though
I'm not sure what the OP expected tbh - dogs do investigate undergrowth and, when called should return to their owner at top speed, not sparing the horses as it were. Shrieking isn't a particularly sensible idea around horses or dogs either. But yes, the dog owners didn't need to have a go (unless the OP did first!).
 

4x4

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JFTD - we are talking about the dog coming back from a wood a field away! Someone elses's private land, which also abutts my grazing. We sometimes have sheep. I have informed the police.
 

JFTD-WS

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JFTD - we are talking about the dog coming back from a wood a field away! Someone elses's private land, which also abutts my grazing. We sometimes have sheep. I have informed the police.
Ah well you didn't say that - clearly allowing the dog onto private land is unacceptable.
 
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Am I unreasonable? If you were out hacking on a private track (I do have permission) and saw someone calling a dog, wwyd? I stopped and asked if they had lost a dog. Yes from over there somewher - so I am ridng towards them still, saying I haven't seen a dog when "whoosh"
aforementioned dog flies through the undergrowth flat out, and sort of growls/barks at my horse in passing on the narrow track...I sort of shrieked "whoo" (was meant to be whoa but it came out wrong), only to be met with a tirade that the dog was scared by me shreaking...I tried to point out that the dog was out of control (a working collie) but there were 2 of them, one of me and I got nowhere. Rant over- thanks for sharing!
I think the dogs' owner, realising that there could have been a nasty accident, and that SHE would have been responsible, reacted by being overly aggressive. The law has or is in the process of changing vis a vis dogs on private property. Had you been thrown from your horse, and as a result injured, or your horse injured, you would have a claim for compensation against the dog owner. As dog owners, we are now responsible for our dogs' actions with regard to humans of course, but now in respect of other pets too - like horses and other dogs. I know all this because I have a dog who is very DA towards some other large male dogs, especially black labs. Now, with the change in law, were he to bite or harm another dog on private property, we could and would be liable for the vet bills. Ipso facto, if your horse had, say, reared up in fright, and cut her leg on a barbed wire fence, you would be able to claim your veterinary bill.

So no, I don't think you were at all unreasonable. Just the opposite.
 

4x4

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Well, Nikki, I was having a similar convo with my friend who I met later on the hack. We ride in a forest which states as a bye-law that 'dogs must be kept under control'. So how can you be sure that the dogs owners or dog-walkers with 8 dogs are insured in the case of an accident? It's not like a car where everyone MUST be insured now, is it? We are both worried that in this day and age of irresponsible dog owners one day one of us will come off (we are always being chased by dogs whose owners normally say 'the dogs are OK' then aren't) then if the dog-owners leg it after the dog you won't be able to get insurance details for them. These dog incidents used to be few and far between, I/we are now having approx. 1 incident per week!
 
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Well, Nikki, I was having a similar convo with my friend who I met later on the hack. We ride in a forest which states as a bye-law that 'dogs must be kept under control'. So how can you be sure that the dogs owners or dog-walkers with 8 dogs are insured in the case of an accident? It's not like a car where everyone MUST be insured now, is it? We are both worried that in this day and age of irresponsible dog owners one day one of us will come off (we are always being chased by dogs whose owners normally say 'the dogs are OK' then aren't) then if the dog-owners leg it after the dog you won't be able to get insurance details for them. These dog incidents used to be few and far between, I/we are now having approx. 1 incident per week!
I haven't ridden hardly at all for 10 years, but I do remember the problem with loose dogs. My old mare, and my DWB gelding before her, and the ex police horse I had were all absolutely fine with dogs, but many horses are not. It is very likely as you say that these dog owners won't have insurance, but tough, they are still legally liable now if their dog causes you or your horse or both injury. Of course getting their contact details out of them is another story - one would have to follow them to see where they live or if they have come in a car, get the registration number.

I have 2 very large malamute crosses, who both adore horses and are very good with them, but we do not allow them to approach horses. They are clipped on to their harnesses and if it is ok with the riders we will go across to say hello. Because of the unusual looks of our boys, mostly riders approach us, but we are always very, very careful.
 
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Is the private land yours OP, if not how do you know she hasn't got permission to let her dog be on the land? As the owner f a collie they are exceptionally quick dogs, when walking on the farm mine can be halfway over the field in less than a minute. You say that the dog barked at your dog when it ran passed, if the dog hadn't seen your horse then perhaps it was startled?
I understand your fright but I think you are over-reacting personally.
 

wench

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I will repeat my oft said saying that all dogs should be on a lead in public places (footpaths/parks/bridle ways etc) with it being private bit more awkward.

However they should be made aware of the dangers of dogs scaring horses, and I would never let my dog be that far away from me.
 
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Well I do wonder at some peoples intelligence. I took my youngster out for her first walk on the road today (it's a dead end road so minimal traffic) down to the canal, we went along the road beside canal which just goes to a house. All was going well until we turned for home and I saw some people up ahead with two dogs. One got put ack on it's lead so I assumed (wrongly) that other dog was fine with horses etc. I pulled youngster in (who's only 7 months btw) to a junction so they had pretty much the whole road to walk past, what happens? The blooming loose dog walks straight up to her back legs spooking her and causing her to jump forward luckily for dog she didn't kick! they did apologise but then let dog do it again ?! I mean seriously, I was on a road not the canal path. I am annoyed with myself for assuming they had full control of their dog and not saying anything to them before they passed. I just hope youngster isn't now scared of dogs.
 

YorksG

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Some of the attitude towards dogs on this thread are OTT IMO. It is usually the rider, not the horsethat is worried about dogs. The comment that all dogs should be on a lead and muzzled at all times is frankly ridiculous, and IMO on a par with all the car drivers who believe that horses should only be ridden in fields! I would suggest to those who are concerned about their horses reacting badly to dogs running past their horse, that they should try acclimatising their horses to dogs.
 

FinnishLapphund

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As I recall, I've read post/replies on HHO about both rabbits that has jumped out from undergrowth and ran past someone's horse, birds that has flown up and almost collided with someone's horse etc. I don't recall any of them talking about wanting to put the blame for the potential risk of causing an accident on anyone else, yet, as soon as a dog is involved, the question about the owner's responsibility almost always seems to come up.

I will repeat my oft said saying that all dogs should be on a lead in public places (footpaths/parks/bridle ways etc)
You think ALL dogs should be on lead and muzzled in public places! Great, what is the point in wasting hours on training them then? I could just get 3 muzzles and 3 Flexi leads and off out in the public we would walk...

Personally, I fear getting raped much more than being bit by a dog. I still don't say that ALL men should wear an electric shock collar when out in public, and that all women should get an universal remote gadget that if needed, would make the collar closest to the remote send out an electric shock.
 

Goldenstar

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Some of the attitude towards dogs on this thread are OTT IMO. It is usually the rider, not the horsethat is worried about dogs. The comment that all dogs should be on a lead and muzzled at all times is frankly ridiculous, and IMO on a par with all the car drivers who believe that horses should only be ridden in fields! I would suggest to those who are concerned about their horses reacting badly to dogs running past their horse, that they should try acclimatising their horses to dogs.
Aggree with this.
 
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Agree with YorksG.

All I'm seeing is 'well this could have happened' and 'if this happened', stop thinking about what didn't happen. Put it down to experience and get over it. Sometimes bad things do happen, sometimes animals who have brains of their own are unpredictable-shocker! Why are we always trying to blame and point. Everyone seems to have become nutty to the point of hysteria about 'dangerous dogs'. I suggest you read what a dangerous dog under the act is actually meant to be. And remember that the incidents reported in the press are rarely factually correct.
 

4x4

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Some of the attitude towards dogs on this thread are OTT IMO. It is usually the rider, not the horsethat is worried about dogs. The comment that all dogs should be on a lead and muzzled at all times is frankly ridiculous, and IMO on a par with all the car drivers who believe that horses should only be ridden in fields! I would suggest to those who are concerned about their horses reacting badly to dogs running past their horse, that they should try acclimatising their horses to dogs.
My horses are quite acclimatised to dogs, thanks very much, I have got 6. The horses have to walk past the kennels every time they go out, the dogs run in the fields with the horses when I am there oh and BTW I NEVER take my dogs ANYWHERE off the property off the lead.
 

4x4

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Agree with YorksG.

All I'm seeing is 'well this could have happened' and 'if this happened', stop thinking about what didn't happen. Put it down to experience and get over it. Sometimes bad things do happen, sometimes animals who have brains of their own are unpredictable-shocker! Why are we always trying to blame and point. Everyone seems to have become nutty to the point of hysteria about 'dangerous dogs'. I suggest you read what a dangerous dog under the act is actually meant to be. And remember that the incidents reported in the press are rarely factually correct.
If you read my post properly there is no mention of 'dangerous dogs'! I have always been a 'dog lover' but it's the owners I'm not so keen on nowadays. A sheepdog is a working animal and has instincts to round up bred into it for thousands of years. They re not pets, to be left in a house 23 hours a day and then alllowed to run about uncontrolled over someone else's land. As for coming back straight away, I had heard her calling it for ages as I rode down the track. And no, they would not have had permission to be on the fields - the track yes, people do walk their dogs there all the time - the landowner doesn't mind, but in the fields - no way.
 

EllenJay

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I’m a little confused about what the issues is here. The owner called the dog and it came back, the horse didn’t react (but the rider sort of screamed). This sort of scream resulted in the dog owner making a ridiculous comments. And the final outcome is that the police have been informed (not sure what they have been informed about).

Seems a lot of todo about nothing!!
 
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I'd say in this case the dogs were perhaps uncontrolled in the sense the woman had been shouting them for a while before they returned. Although from what I have read I cannot see how such a big deal was made by either dog owner, not ideal to make loud noises when greeted by this situation when riding but that's how some people react. I probably would have thanked the woman for calling her dog back, warn her about the possibility of sheep being in the field and carry on my way happy knowing no one was hurt.
 

amymay

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Some of the attitude towards dogs on this thread are OTT IMO. It is usually the rider, not the horse that is worried about dogs. The comment that all dogs should be on a lead and muzzled at all times is frankly ridiculous, and IMO on a par with all the car drivers who believe that horses should only be ridden in fields! I would suggest to those who are concerned about their horses reacting badly to dogs running past their horse, that they should try acclimatising their horses to dogs.
I absolutely and completely agree with you.

Scared of dogs - don't ride out!
 

RLS

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I was walking a youngster (yearling) down the track from her field last summer. It's a track used a lot by dog walkers and the horsey is absolutely fine with dogs. One monrning met a girl (maybe 16 - 17 yrs old) with 8 dogs all off lead, so I stopped at edge of track. Dogs ran all round horse who was a little jumpy when they ran up her backside but just waved a back leg about a bit to warn them off, which they paid heed to and all but one moved away. But then the girl ran RIGHT up horse's backside to catch hold of last dog, saying "oh, I'm a scared of horses", I thought WTF are you DOING, ya daft bint? This while young horse was still waving back leg to warn off last dog. She nearly got kicked and managed to fall in a ditch. Turns out these were not her dogs - she was payed to walk them, but didn't even have leads for them all - don't think I'd trust her with my dogs!
Don't ususally have a problem with dogs - quite often have a problem with daft people!
 

Patterdale

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A sheepdog is a working animal and has instincts to round up bred into it for thousands of years. They re not pets, to be left in a house 23 hours a day and then alllowed to run about uncontrolled over someone else's land.
You said it was a working sheepdog in your OP so to then start making assumptions about its home life in the other direction seems a bit strange.
 

ester

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As I recall, I've read post/replies on HHO about both rabbits that has jumped out from undergrowth and ran past someone's horse, birds that has flown up and almost collided with someone's horse etc. I don't recall any of them talking about wanting to put the blame for the potential risk of causing an accident on anyone else, yet, as soon as a dog is involved, the question about the owner's responsibility almost always seems to come up.





You think ALL dogs should be on lead and muzzled in public places! Great, what is the point in wasting hours on training them then? I could just get 3 muzzles and 3 Flexi leads and off out in the public we would walk...

Personally, I fear getting raped much more than being bit by a dog. I still don't say that ALL men should wear an electric shock collar when out in public, and that all women should get an universal remote gadget that if needed, would make the collar closest to the remote send out an electric shock.
We keep waking up roosting pheasants atm... now I must contact the shoot owner... :p.

I have muted other possibilities for shock collars on men in the past ;).

All seems a lot of fuss about nothing quite frankly, certainly not a police matter! though I might just tell the landlord there was someone on the land (also not a police matter).
 
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You said it was a working sheepdog in your OP so to then start making assumptions about its home life in the other direction seems a bit strange.
Yes I picked up on this, most working sheepdogs I know certainly aren't inside at all apart from very chilly nights. They are also very well behaved when it comes to recall due to the nature of their job.
 
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