Uncontrolled dogs (again)

[Holly Hocks]

I believe it is incumbent on dog owners such as myself to keep our dogs firmly under control when we see horse riders approaching.

I do agree with this - the problem comes when the dog owner just doesn't hear the rider coming - a rider on their own is unlikely to be talking out loud (although I occasionally sing!) and if on a bridlepath which may be soft underfoot, there is no clip clop of hooves to hear, or on narrow bridleways with bends you can be in front of a horse in a millisecond. It's easy if it's straight and you can get hold of your dog in time, but it sometimes happens quicker than you can anticipate.

 

[lastchancer]

So, someone encountered an idiot with a dog, words were exchanged, no one died. I'm a bit bemused by this 7 page thread tbh.

 

[Nikki J]

I do agree with this - the problem comes when the dog owner just doesn't hear the rider coming - a rider on their own is unlikely to be talking out loud (although I occasionally sing!) and if on a bridlepath which may be soft underfoot, there is no clip clop of hooves to hear, or on narrow bridleways with bends you can be in front of a horse in a millisecond. It's easy if it's straight and you can get hold of your dog in time, but it sometimes happens quicker than you can anticipate.

Yes I quite agree, and we have indeed been caught unawares with our boys, but no harm done because we have trained them well with regards to horses. They will not rush at them, they will approach them to say hello because they are both very "into" horses and find them fascinating, as horses seem to do with them. However, they are also obedient with good recalls, so we can quickly call them to us and clip them on the lead and if necessary make them lie down if the horses are agitated. Our experience is with our boys though is just the opposite - the horses are very keen to say hello, and love to sniff them and snort and are happy to allow them to go behind them and even under their bellies, which is something I do not encourage but frequently just happens. There is one particular beautiful large dappled grey horse that we meet occasionally up at Everdon and he and my boys are very into each other and seem to take delight in each others' company. it is pure bliss for me to see my 2 favourite species interact so well. But I am never complacent about the fact that my boys could cause a nasty accident were they to spook a horse and it bolted, so we are very, very horse aware and keep an eye out at all times for riders.

 

[Nikki J]

So, someone encountered an idiot with a dog, words were exchanged, no one died. I'm a bit bemused by this 7 page thread tbh.

It is because someone COULD have been injured - dog, horse or human - and there are good opinions on both sides that the thread is 7 pages long. Horses and dogs usually rub along pretty well together, but horses are flight animals, prey to dogs and therefore it can be extremely dangerous for horse and rider if dogs are left uncontrolled to spook horses.

 

[YorksG]

All these people who have problems with their horses spooking at dogs, can they not see that their horse is as out of control, if not more so, than the dogs? I agree that horses are flight animals, just has dogs are predators, why people expect one species to be controled and not the other is beyond me.

 

[Goldenstar]

All these people who have problems with their horses spooking at dogs, can they not see that their horse is as out of control, if not more so, than the dogs? I agree that horses are flight animals, just has dogs are predators, why people expect one species to be controled and not the other is beyond me.

Fair point it's incumbent on us as riders to be able to control our mounts.

 

[4x4]

Well Niiki J, you are the sensible one on here. It seems that most posters think it's fine to let dogs roam around the countryside at their will. They are probably also hacking about on spook proof horses. Fine.

 

[AmyMay]

Well Niiki J, you are the sensible one on here. It seems that most posters think it's fine to let dogs roam around the countryside at their will.

I don't think anyone has said that.

 

[RunToEarth]

Well Niiki J, you are the sensible one on here. It seems that most posters think it's fine to let dogs roam around the countryside at their will. They are probably also hacking about on spook proof horses. Fine.

Are you for real?

 

[ester]

Quite, mine is plenty spooky... that's mine and his problem though not any dog walkers we might meet! (In fact he did nearly have me last week when we were on a bridlepath in the half light... dog was a good 20 yrds away, plonka )

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

^this^ and muzzled

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have read in this forum..!!!!
I have 4 dogs...2 of which are giant breeds (Newfoundlands) and are all fine with horses. I rarely walk all 4 together in the intrests of maintaining proper control and keep them on leads when appropriate. But muzzling them too..???!!!
It's no wonder we have such an anti dog culture growing in a our supposed "nation of animal lovers".
This really highlights a huge amount of ignorance. ..makes me angry and sad at the same time

 

[AmyMay]

This really highlights a huge amount of ignorance. ..makes me angry and sad at the same time

Bit like car drivers, really, saying horses shouldn't be on the roads......

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Bit like car drivers, really, saying horses shouldn't be on the roads......

Exactly..!!!!

 

[Indy]

If a dog ducked out from a hedge in front of my little TB mare she would have a real panic attack and would probably dump me - which is why she is confined to her field - she's not safe enough to be unleased onto the outside world just yet.

I have no shadow of a doubt that my other horses would object too (although it wouldn't be in such an over the top manner) but at the same time they'd spook at a pheasant/plastic bag/fox/deer/rabbit - choose any of the above.

I can remember a few years ago I'd taken my 2 pet collies swimming and two girls on horseback shouted to put them on a lead because they would scare their horses. The dogs at this time were swimming in the opposite direction and were about halfway across the lake so I shouted back yeah ok - I'll just swim after them shall I?

The horses were oblivious to the dogs - I'm all for everyone keeping their horses/dogs/themselves under control but the world wont stop just because someone is out with their horse.

 

[Caol Ila]

If you ride out on public roads or paths, as most of us do, you really just need to develop your own riding and your horse's confidence and training so you both can cope with potentially spooky situations. You can't control what other people do with their dogs, their kids, how they drive, any construction or yardwork they may be doing on their house, where they fly tip (maybe that's just a South Lanarkshire thing), and what the local wildlife does. You can't expect that people will know the right thing to do when they see a horse, nor should you expect the world to stop while you ride by.

The only thing you can really ever do is develop the a partnership between you and your horse so you both can deal with the unexpected.

 

[AmyMay]

Beautifully put Caol Ila.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If you ride out on public roads or paths, as most of us do, you really just need to develop your own riding and your horse's confidence and training so you both can cope with potentially spooky situations. You can't control what other people do with their dogs, their kids, how they drive, any construction or yardwork they may be doing on their house, where they fly tip (maybe that's just a South Lanarkshire thing), and what the local wildlife does. You can't expect that people will know the right thing to do when they see a horse, nor should you expect the world to stop while you ride by.

The only thing you can really ever do is develop the a partnership between you and your horse so you both can deal with the unexpected.

This.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

The BREED is a working sheepdog. It is a pet OK? I informed the police for 2 reasons
1) The unpleasant gobbiness of the owner could be construed as aggressive behaviour
2) If we shoot it for sheep worrying at a later date I have a crime ref: no. to prove it's not the first time the dog was out of control on someone else's land.

As for not riding out if you're scared of dogs, what am I supposed to do, trek round and round my turnout paddock. Come one you lot, dogs should be controlled in the countryside. You wouldn't take a dog into the centre of and let it run about now would you? Or perhaps you would!

Well Niiki J, you are the sensible one on here. It seems that most posters think it's fine to let dogs roam around the countryside at their will. They are probably also hacking about on spook proof horses. Fine.

I find it both weird and fascinating, how different people can make so different interpretations, after having read the same post/replies.

To take my own previous reply as an example. It began with a simple reflection from me, about the difference between how different animal encounters in general seems to be viewed. And then, I also expressed my opinion about the replies who said that all dogs should be on lead and muzzled when they're out in public. Which to me seems like a very unfair punishment of those dog owners who has not done anything wrong, who actually tries to do their best to have well behaved dogs, and has spent a lot of time and effort on training their dogs to be under control, both on and off lead.

Anyhow, I don't interpret my reply as that I, in general, think it is okay for dogs to be out of control when they're off lead and out in public, or "think it's fine to let dogs roam around the countryside at their will". But I haven't interpreted it as if anyone else said so in their replies either.

Wait til you get bitten (hopefully not!) yourself, and spend the next few hours in A&E getting stitches and anti-tetanus, and then the next two weeks on antibiotics which pretty much knock you out. And then have to deal with the moral dilemma of whether or not you should report it to the police and probably cause the dog to be pts.

I'm glad it was me bitten while I was out running, scouting new hacking routes, because that dog would have bitten through a tendon or ligament if it had been a horse's leg. And I realise now I've also come close to being bitten twice before while out running by dogs off the lead, because I felt the teeth on my leg. The doctor in A&E said he had been bitten twice and sees quite a lot of people who have.

I was previously in a false sense of security, thinking dogs don't generally bite. They do!

I'm sorry that you've been bitten by a dog Mithras, and I hope that you physically have healed from the injury. But judging from the statistic that I've read, I will assume that if you had asked the A&E doctor, if it was dogs or humans who had caused the majority of the injuries that he had encountered, the answer would have been humans.

So, I'm not trying to say that dogs can't be dangerous, but in general, according to overall statistic, other humans poses a much bigger threat towards yours and mine safety, than dogs. Which is another reason, for why I think it sounds unreasonable when I hear some people say (usually due to the sake of humans safety), that all dogs should be on lead and muzzled when they're out in public, yet, humans are allowed to wander around loose...

 

[Nikki J]

Bit like car drivers, really, saying horses shouldn't be on the roads......

Not at all - I think all of us would agree that roads are not just meant for motorised traffic - they are for many other forms as well, bipedal and quadraped and of course bi-cycle!

But I think that all of us would agree that when we are riding our horses on the road, we should endeavour at all times to keep them, ourselves and other road users safe, by maintaining control over our horses, and definitely not go out onto the roads over-horsed. However, unlike cycles, cars, lorries etc., horses have minds of their own, and can be unpredictable and therefore potentially dangerous - hence the reason for the Highway Code very sensibly stating that motorised transport must give way to horses, follow any hand signals given by riders, pass wide and slow, don't honk your horn, etc. etc.

Ipso facto, when riding off road, it is only sensible that dog owners - and I number myself amongst them as the owner of 2 giant hairy monsters - endeavour to maintain control over their dogs when in the presence of horses, for the safety of the riders, their mounts and the general public - including of course, the dogs. A metal shod horse could easily kill a dog with one blow of the hoof, so it is in the interests of the dog owners to keep their dogs under control. As a rider with a fairly modest level of skill, I would not appreciate a dog or dogs spooking my horse intentionally - accidents do happen of course, but IMO it is behoven on dog owners to make sure that their dogs are under control when in the presence of horses. If one is exercising one's dogs on a bridleway, then you can pretty well reckon that you are going to meet horses, therefore IMO it is unreasonable to let your dog go charging off well ahead of you so that you have no control over him should you meet horses.

I totally agree though that dogs should not be permanently muzzled and/or kept leashed the whole time - just in case. There is commonsense on both sides.

 

[Nikki J]

Beautifully put Caol Ila.

I agree, with the added proviso that dogs should be kept under control.

 

[Lizzie66]

If one is exercising one's dogs on a bridleway, then you can pretty well reckon that you are going to meet horses, therefore IMO it is unreasonable to let your dog go charging off well ahead of you so that you have no control over him should you meet horses.

Even if I wholly agreed with this, the OP wasn't on a bridleway, this is why the general consensus is that she totally overeacted.

 

[Caol Ila]

I agree, with the added proviso that dogs should be kept under control.

Aye, they should. But that was kind of my point. I can't control whether other people are eejits, whether they can't call their dogs back or drive too fast right up my horse's backside, or leap out from a bush, landing right in front of you as you're hand-galloping up a track (where are the judges for the Reining World Championships when you need them? My draft cross could have put a QH to shame with a sliding stop). I can't guarantee that my horse won't ever spook at any of those things, but if she is as well trained as possible, she will hopefully remain controllable at worst and totally nonplussed at best.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

If you ride out on public roads or paths, as most of us do, you really just need to develop your own riding and your horse's confidence and training so you both can cope with potentially spooky situations. You can't control what other people do with their dogs, their kids, how they drive, any construction or yardwork they may be doing on their house, where they fly tip (maybe that's just a South Lanarkshire thing), and what the local wildlife does. You can't expect that people will know the right thing to do when they see a horse, nor should you expect the world to stop while you ride by.

this. up in Scotland we can't be that precious about what we may/not meet-anyone can go anywhere as long as they aren't motorised (but tell that to the scramblers).

 

[Nikki J]

Even if I wholly agreed with this, the OP wasn't on a bridleway, this is why the general consensus is that she totally overeacted.

I don't think she did.

I was alluding to a bridleway as a generalisation, not in respect of the OP per se.

 

[Nikki J]

this. up in Scotland we can't be that precious about what we may/not meet-anyone can go anywhere as long as they aren't motorised (but tell that to the scramblers).

To my mind it is commonsense to anyone with half a brain how one should behave around horse. As an ex enduro motorbiker as well as horse rider, I am well aware of the conflicts that can occur between off road bikes (including mountain bikes) and horses. It is all about commonsense and respecting the rights of everyone who wants to enjoy their particular sport legally. The rules surrounding byways and green lanes for instance are quite clear ... motorised transport (eg 4 wheel drives and motorbikes) should give way to horses, cut their engines if needs be, etc. etc. Bridleways of course should not be used by motorised transport at all, but frequently are ... endangering dogs, walkers, horses and riders.

 

[Nikki J]

Aye, they should. But that was kind of my point. I can't control whether other people are eejits, whether they can't call their dogs back or drive too fast right up my horse's backside, or leap out from a bush, landing right in front of you as you're hand-galloping up a track (where are the judges for the Reining World Championships when you need them? My draft cross could have put a QH to shame with a sliding stop). I can't guarantee that my horse won't ever spook at any of those things, but if she is as well trained as possible, she will hopefully remain controllable at worst and totally nonplussed at best.

I understand that, but respectfully you sound like a pretty competent and expert rider who can cope with a handful of horse kicking off, but to use myself as an example I am a competent basic sensible rider who always took care not to be over-horsed so that I could be pretty sure of being in control if a difficult situation occurred. However, even the quietest of horses can run amok if half terrified by off lead dogs like my 2 charging around out of control (they are never out of control, but I am just using them as an example because they look like wolves being alaskan malamute crosses (one is a low content wolf cross) and many horses WOULD be scared of them, however well acclimatised they have been. Its behoven to me to keep my monsters under control at all times, and should I fail to do so and some poor competent but basic rider came a cropper because of my stupidity I would feel dreadful.

 

[AmyMay]

Really nikkij, I think you are totally over egging the whole situation. Dogs generally do not run amock. Horses are not generally terrified. Riders, however can do and be both.

 

[Nikki J]

Really nikkij, I think you are totally over egging the whole situation. Dogs generally do not run amock. Horses are not generally terrified. Riders, however can do and be both.

I tend to talk in hyperbole, but you have hit the nail on the head. Riders often ARE terrified ... as I keep repeatedly saying, we are not all Mary King's - many of us, maybe even most of us, are just good basic riders, nothing special and are indeed TERRIFIED if dogs cause our horses to bolt, run backwards, sideways, whatever. My ex police horse, having been a Metropolitan boy, would freak at sheep, cows, tractors, combine harvesters, squawking chickens, pheasants, you name any countryside thing and my boy was petrified of it. He could run forward, backwards and sideways in a split second, and call me a wimp, but I was very scared at times. So I can quite understand how the OP felt vis a vis the collie incident.

 

[YorksG]

But NickyJ surely you didn't believe that the things that frightened your horse should be erradicated, or kept on a lead with a muzzle, so that you could ride untroubled through the countryside?

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

Threads like this make my blood boil..!!!! If you/your horse is "terrified" then I would politely suggest you stick to riding in an arena :rolleyes3:
MOST dogs will be under control whether on or off the lead, there will always be the odd few that are not.
Its attitudes like some on this thread that cause the biggest problem