unfair riding fails at Summerhouse today BHS 2

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yaddowshad

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Anyone who feels they unfairly failed the riding section today must put in a complaint against the examiners to the BHS as nearly everyone failed the flat for no apparent reason and were not allowed to jump (BIG MONEY MAKING CON). Most people told they were stiff!!!!!!!""""

I am an Instructor who has asked Yaddowshad to allow me to use this forum in order to help those who feel they were unfairly treated today. I train to a high level and saw most riders today and they were certainly up to stage 2 standard and should not have failed the flat. A couple of them jump competitively and were not allowed to jump.

Summerhouse put on an excellent exam today and in no way can be faulted. The horses were good and facilities excellent.

If you feel like I know some of you do unfairly treated please make a stand and complain.
 
At this stage a secure seat is required and the ability to ride on both reins at walk, trot, canter with or without stirrups, and a light secure jumping seat. What I saw was good riders and they shouldnt have failed. And not to be allowed to jump is disgusting, no one was dangerous or insecure so why couldnt they jump?

This system needs to be overhauled and monitored outside of the BHS, these examiners are all mates in it together and no one monitors them.

I am really angry with what i saw today and actually very concerned something is definately amiss here.
 
I had something similar at my stage 2. I never bothered to challenge it, just tried to get more lessons. I will eventually retake it, when I have the funds.
 
Please put your complaints to the BHS as well, in writing, if you can get other witnesses/ candidates to do the same it will be looked into.
 
When I took my stage 2 years ago - at Summerhouse, out of 12 candidates, 9 failed. They included a girl who was on a Swedish YR dressage squad. It was laughable. I failed even though 2 days before I'd had a clinic with Richard Waygood & he'd allowed me to go for a hack on one of his advanced horses. I simply hadn't the riding school position, attitude & tendency towards using the whip. I rode with my legs & seat & didn't constantly harass the horse or have a tight contact at all times....

Stage 3 is far easier and more understandable IMO.
 
Nothing ever changes does it!!!!!! Hear this all the time and was the same in my day!!! I agree with an overhaul, when you get high level dressage and badminton riders being told to stop correctly riding a horse if they want to pass or even failing at some low level stage exam!!! What more can you say!!!

I certainly realise that not everyone taking an exam will be upto that level, or even ride well on the day, my point is the excuses the examiners use, not the fact that they failed candidates!!!!
 
I failed my stage 1, years ago. Doesn't really bother me, I'm not the greatest rider in the world, nor do I pretend to be. But honestly, I felt the reasons given were appalling - I had been injured 2 days before (soft tissue/cartilage injuries to both legs). I had a doctors certificate, had been told not to ride, but wanted to give it a go anyway. They failed me because my "leg aids were ineffective". Yeah, no kidding....
 
This was happening thirty plus years ago, I passed the riding of my stage three but failed the stable management due to being a shy 18 year old and not being able to speak up in the free for all question and answer session!!!!!!!!! I knew the answers to the questions but my group included two very loud young men who just butted in all the time, I was too polite, I am not now!!!!!!!
 
lol nothing ever changes does it, the first time I took my stage 1 (25 yrs ago) I failed for wearing jodhpur boots and chaps and not long leather riding boots!!! I did go on to pass my BHSAI though in my newly acquired leather boots :D
 
Its over 10 years since I took mine. I took it with a friend who just scrapped a pass as they said her jumping was poor. This is a person who jumps affilliated!! Including being part of a team going over the Ireland. But what would she know about jumping hey!!
 
I had the opposite with my Stage 2 (in 1988 :o). When we jumped we were allowed to pick our own course over about 8 jumps in a field. Out of all the candidates I was the only one who jumped an ascending spread with a groundline in the right direction, but we all passed :confused: Didn't seem right to me! Monty Mortimer was the examiner, he was luffly :cool:
 
I did my stage 1 ages ago and failed the ridden part basically because my reins were too long, but not once was I out of control and i'm pretty sure I did everything else right :(
 
The more people i talk to on and off this forum the more im convinced these exams are on a quota basis of who passes and fails.

Im absolutely convinced that some candidates are black listed as ive just met a lady who has failed level 2 5 times and yet she competes affiliated and wins classes, but she has had a run in with a certain examiner in the past. She keeps on trying as its now become a mission for her, the next time she is going out the county to see if this helps.

I do wonder when the last time these examiners actually competed or updated their qualifications. In any other industry you would have to stay current yet in ours they could have got their BHS1 30 years ago and taken nothing since.

Any way it is unfair and something needs to be done.
 
I agree with much of what has been said, my main complaint being how little explanation is given when a candidate fails in a particular area. I got an 'X' for one part of my riding (not enough to fail me) but with no comment whatsoever. I showed the paper to my father who is a senior examiner in medicine and he was appalled. If you fail on any part you are likely to either resit (if you fail), or go on to do the next stage (if you pass, as in my case). A simple 'X' with no explanation is no help whatsoever in either case.

This is a professional (not to mention expensive) qualification system and clearly greater standardisation is needed as well as clear reasons why a candidate has failed.
 
I'm afraid I wouldn't touch the BHS exam system with a bargepole and in the real world those exams don't really stand for anything anyway. It's just such a shame people are being ripped off left, right and centre, especially when they think they are doing the right thing by going through the BHS system.

I'm watching Watchdog at the moment... now there's an idea...!
 
I am sorry you had a bad day, but glad the horses and facilities were great as my best exam experience was at summerhouse. The horses were all excellent and everyone was so friendly. I wish I could say the same for the examiners
 
Well I'll quote my experiences

15 years old doing riding and road safety, get one answer marked wrong, so at the end of the exam I get out the highway code and show the examiner I was right!!! Her excuse 'oh I haven't got my glasses'!!! WTF!!!

Funnily enough I failed the following exam stage 2! Only one 1 part, which was the jumping!! I was actually jumping 1.10 members cups and newcomers at the time of the exam, I realise that is no defense as there are some shocking rider out there competing on brill horses, my horse was a cheap, nut case!! But not only that, I was the only one in the exam to a) do 3 clears! b) get one of the horses round the course full stop!!! OK I'd accept it if I was poor, or told how to improve, but the examiner said 'you did not fold before you reached the fence'!!! WTF maybe you used to jump like that when jumping to evade the Dinosaurs!!!!!!! hahaha!! There were alot of failures and I wondered if each examiner is given a push to fail a certain amount to increase funding in resit fees, but this is just my speculation.

After this I met an AI who couldn't put a bridle together after cleaning it!! And then a friend who is a damn fine dressage rider, in becoming a BD accredited trainer needs to do her stages, yet she was told in order to pass she must stop 'riding' the horse!!

Another AI I know cannot and never has known how to get a horse to engage and work in a correct outline!!

Where is the sense in all this! I realise not everyone will be up to the exam, but please get some sort of order with regards to reasons to fail, and standards! The BHS exam system should be a goal to have achieved through quality of riding and knowledge and should be something we as a community should respect and defer to. It's a pity it does not live up to this.
 
Having lurked on this forum for a long time this topic has finally made me take the plunge and register to try and clear up some misconceptions.

I have been an assessor for 16 years and can honestly say I have never heard of a quota system for passing or failing candidates. To fail a candidate involves far more work for the assessor and the chief assessor and in my experience is not something any assessor I know would do without good reason. One chief assessor I work with always says in her introduction to candidates “remember we are here to find reasons to pass you today not fail you”.

At the end of every exam the assessors are given a report sheet on which the chief assessor has reviewed their performance that day and it includes a part for “attitude to candidates”. It has certainly always been my experience that we have been told that candidates pay a lot of money to sit these exams and we have to put them at ease to allow them to perform to the best of their ability and to assess them fairly bearing in mind exams days are nerve wracking for most people. We are certainly are not permitted to fail candidates without justification and have to record in detail the reasons for any failures. On occasions I do feel sorry for some candidates who are keen to further their careers but are obviously hampered by inadequate training prior to being entered for an exam.

As far as “staying current” it is a condition of remaining an assessor that an annual training day is attended, these are done on a regional basis for two years and the third year there is a national training day. A couple of years ago the regional training days were run by a non equine company who’s remit was to make assessors more aware of how they were perceived by candidates and to improve their communication skills with candidates.

Obviously unsuccessful candidates will always be disappointed and this undoubtedly leads to sour grapes and rumour spreading by some. Competing at a particular level is no guarantee to success; some abysmal riders compete at a reasonably high level, others are only used to riding one horse or horses of a particular type. Equally so some very good riders have no desire or lack the horse or finance to compete.

My experience of assessing is mainly confined to exam centres in my part of the country and I accept I do not know many assessors in other areas. However I would be saddened to think my experience was not the norm and I think the BHS/EQL office would feel likewise. I know they have made a huge effort recently to ensure these exams are meeting the requirements of the equine industry and any complaints are taken seriously and investigated thoroughly so if you feel you have been unfairly treated you do have a course for redress.

I apologise for such a long first post and hope any future posts are not so controversial.
 
Failed mine when pony bolted on the lunge after it was spooked by a tractor, regained control, ended well, told then what was wrong. The said side reins should have been on and tight?? WTF?? It was a 12.2hh, reins were as long as him, and we'd have done 1/2 a circle. He was put away and a ploddy cob brought out for the next person! Never re-took but I have pony club B test anyway
 
I agree with you completely EM. I don't think there is an quota or anything of the sort. Yes there will be certain "things" that certain examiners like more than others. For example, I had heard through the grapevine that a certain examiner in my area (Art Nordvick - don't see why I can't name! It's not a critism!) didn't like riders at Stage 3 riding large. He sees it as pointless and not "getting on with it" and "schooling/improving the horse" which is the point at Stage 3. He was my head examiner on my day, so I knew what NOT to do! (even though personally I like to "test" what I have occasioanlly by going large to see if the horse maintains it) I didn't and I passed. I had an ABSOLUTE MARE with one flat horse. It was stiff and horrible. He pulled me in after 5 mins and asked what I was doing (in a nice way... that's what they do). I told him my assessment, my plan but obviously it came across my slight panic that I knew it wasn't going well! He said "ok, now go and get the horse to get on with it!". It was just what I needed. Without saying it outright he'd told me to get firmer and to stop panicing!! I was so grateful. The horse went much better and I passed.

So there may be "certain things" that certain examiners look for. But thats' life! It's the same in the competitive world

I failed my stage 3 riding the 1st time around. I had no idea why. I'd done it at the exam centre where I had trained. My instructors watched me and were shocked I failed. They mentioned complaining. But instead I went for a 2nd opinion on my riding elsewhere. They pulled my positions apart, told me where I was going wrong and I passed. Their exam pass rate at that trainging centre (Lavant House) is over 95%. That is what I'd recommend people do before complaining. Go and have a 2nd impartial opinion.

I'm sorry some people don't rate the BHS and think it's outdated. But we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
In regards to comments made by eventing mum i understand your point of view however you are an assessor (presume NVQ) and not BHS. The BHS operate differently and are a law to themselves.

Im glad this forum has provoked interest, it is so easy for assessors/examiners to say those that fail are not to the standard when we all know this is rubbish, its the exscuse they use when they fail people.

Im not saying all those that fail are above the standard as that is not true and some are not at the required level, however what the instructor saw at Summerhouse clearly shows some candidates failed for no apparent reason. From what i heard 9 out of 12 failed and of the ones they deamed safe to jump 1 fell off at the first fence, so examiner got that wrong didnt he.

It would be great if someone who took the exam that day and failed would come onto this forum and give their opinion. They probably wont for fear of retaliation at their next exam.
 
[

I failed my stage 3 riding the 1st time around. I had no idea why. I'd done it at the exam centre where I had trained. My instructors watched me and were shocked I failed. They mentioned complaining. But instead I went for a 2nd opinion on my riding elsewhere. They pulled my positions apart, told me where I was going wrong and I passed. Their exam pass rate at that trainging centre (Lavant House) is over 95%. That is what I'd recommend people do before complaining. Go and have a 2nd impartial opinion.

I'm sorry some people don't rate the BHS and think it's outdated. But we'll have to agree to disagree.[/QUOTE]


But this comment indicates the training centre you were at had not trained you correctly for them to think you should have passed, is this what you are saying? if not surely you can see the subjectiveness of the BHS examiners?????
 
all I'll say is when I failed my stage 3 over half the candidates failed. From what I recall they were all trained by the centre we took it at. The centre thought we should have passed. I went for a 2nd opinion and they told me exactly why I failed. They trained me for a few months and I passed.

I think that the inital place I trained at was wrong thinking that I should have passed the 1st time.

Yaddowshad... I'm sorry you've failed. I've been there! I'd REALLY recommend you go to an independent BHS trainging centre and get a 2nd opinion on your riding. That's the only way you'll know for sure.

Just to clarify it was the 2nd place I went for my 2nd opinion (LHS) that has a pass rate of over 95%
 
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Not taken any exams in riding, never seen the need to for my life-plan, but I would have thought it would have been better to take your exam elsewhere, to get a complete impartial view TBH.....

Couldn't your regular instructors become a little complacent after a while?

It's something to think about....
 
DragonSlayer said:
Not taken any exams in riding, never seen the need to for my life-plan, but I would have thought it would have been better to take your exam elsewhere, to get a complete impartial view TBH.....

Couldn't your regular instructors become a little complacent after a while?

It's something to think about....
Click to expand...

It is external examiners that exam you. The instructors just hang around making sure there are no running issues (horses equipment etc). Hence they watch the exam.

It is quiet common to take the exam where you train. You're allowed to, up to and including stage 3 (not for stage 4). Helps with initial exam nerves when you know the centre and the horses. Although 2nd time around for my stage 3 I went to a centre I didn't know and was fine. Almost better the devil you DON'T know! ;)
 
galaxy23 said:
It is external examiners that exam you. The instructors just hang around making sure there are no running issues (horses equipment etc). Hence they watch the exam.

It is quiet common to take the exam where you train. You're allowed to, up to and including stage 3 (not for stage 4). Helps with initial exam nerves when you know the centre and the horses. Although 2nd time around for my stage 3 I went to a centre I didn't know and was fine. Almost better the devil you DON'T know! ;)
Click to expand...

Ah, fair enough, thanks for the clarification! :D
 
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