UPDATE on badly made English saddles

[PapaFrita]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=591642

Thanks! That's very scary as well!!

 

[mandwhy]

Interesting stuff, I feel like I've learnt a lot about saddles this week! Cursed things, I'm starting to hate them a little bit... No one told me when you buy a horse it would be this hard!!

Interesting the L&R was a goodun as I have always felt at home on them, sadly the horses in question didn't feel at home under!

 

[cornbrodolly]

I ve had a quick check ,looking at the stirrup bars on our saddles. Only 2 out of 10 have any stamp on.
They are an Ideal ,circa 1980 ish , and a Jeffries Event I bought in 1982.
Most of our saddles are 'elderly' from the 70s and 80s, as I have thought the older type of saddles sit better and give less trouble , and wonder if the shoddy methods [eg girth straps shocker] came in when cheap synthetics were sold, to keep prices down?
Quite suprised, though, our other saddles had no bar stamps - they include 2 Antills, a Podhjiski,an Albion,and others unidentified but all 'English best quality'.

 

[OldNag]

I'm gobsmacked. I studied at the same college as CremedeMonthe and was taught to make a saddle using traditional methods.

I ended up not specialisign in saddlery in the end, so haven't stayed current... and in my naivety assumed that, although there would be some "modernisation", that saddles were still being made in largely the same way.

I really am shocked by what we've been shown here. I have made sure I have bought English made saddles (out of princple, I want to support what's left of the saddlery industry here), both "reputable" makes but I'm now wondering whether I've made a mistake... and don't know if I really want to read the the "Naughty List"!

Thank you for sharing this with us.

 

[teacups]

Don't want to clog up your PM inbox Cremedemonthe (ps -why not menthe? Been wanting to ask that - intrigued), but I 'd be very grateful if you could send me the 'naughty' list, too. Many thanks for taking the time to do this: it's a really interesting and instructive thread.

 

[cremedemonthe]

Don't want to clog up your PM inbox Cremedemonthe (ps -why not menthe? Been wanting to ask that - intrigued), but I 'd be very grateful if you could send me the 'naughty' list, too. Many thanks for taking the time to do this: it's a really interesting and instructive thread.

Don't like cremedementhe but as that's the first thing that came into my head so I am cream-of-the-month instead!
I'll PM you , Oz

 

[Wagtail]

Excellent thread! Could you pm me too please as I am just looking for a second hand saddle for my mare. Thanks.

 

[onlytheponely]

Wow, some absolute shockers on that list.

Very relieved that none of my saddles are on there. Just goes to show that you can easily spend four figures and not necessarily get something that's up to the job and worse still, bad for your horse/pony. Very worrying indeed.

 

[Karran]

This and the girth thread has been absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much for taking the time to create it/them.

Please could I have the list too if you get a moment?

 

[cremedemonthe]

Yes, I'll PM you karran.
Dare I do a bad bridle thread!!
Might get hung drawn and quartered!
Oz

 

[Maizy]

Dare I do a bad bridle thread!!
Might get hung drawn and quartered!
Oz

Yes please!! I'm in the process of updating my tack, having just agreed to buy a new to me saddle (not got it yet!) I'm scared now! Please could you please PM me the good, bad and ugly list.

It's all very fascinating, thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[martyfisch]

Dare I do a bad bridle thread!!
Might get hung drawn and quartered!
Oz

Please do, I'm currently learning to be a saddler and this is all brilliant!

 

[OldNag]

Oz, could you pm me the list please? I shall pour myself a stiff drink before I read it. If either of my three saddles (both bought new in the past year, and bought specifically because they are English made) are on it, I shall cry....

 

[cremedemonthe]

Please do, I'm currently learning to be a saddler and this is all brilliant!

Are you at Capel Manor?
I trained at Cordwainers College in Hackney (Mare Street would you believe!) in 1987-88. It stopped teaching Saddlery, Harness and Lorinery in about 2000 I think, when it transferred to here http://www.capel.ac.uk/saddlery.html
Good luck with your studies and enjoy!
Oz

 

[ElleSkywalker]

Could u send me the naught list too? Am on phone so can't pm

Definitely do a bridle thread, these are great & should be stickied!

Thanks Oz

 

[martyfisch]

Are you at Capel Manor?
I trained at Cordwainers College in Hackney (Mare Street would you believe!) in 1987-88. It stopped teaching Saddlery, Harness and Lorinery in about 2000 I think, when it transferred to here http://www.capel.ac.uk/saddlery.html
Good luck with your studies and enjoy!
Oz

Thank you! Yes, I'm at Capel, however have heard much about the course when it was in Hackney; our Lorinery teacher did the course when it was there. Just moving onto harness now; it's hard work, but really rewarding. Have to say, I'm absolutely loving it!

 

[cremedemonthe]

Thank you! Yes, I'm at Capel, however have heard much about the course when it was in Hackney; our Lorinery teacher did the course when it was there. Just moving onto harness now; it's hard work, but really rewarding. Have to say, I'm absolutely loving it!

Get yourself an account with the saddlery raw material suppliers as soon as you can, so you can supply your own materials and tools, I have accounts and contacts enabling you to go through to the tool makers etc rather than buy from the college, they used to charge us a lot!
I can give you some suppliers details if you need them, just PM me, I usually know where it's cheapest to buy.
Send me updates of your progress!
Are you going to Beta at the NEC in a couple of weeks?
I'm there as a visitor with 2 other ex 1987-88 Cordwainers on 18th Feb, if you are there we should meet up.
Oz

 

[Persephone]

Can I have the list too please? Will be buying a new saddle in the next couple of months.

 

[Frumpoon]

Can I have the list too please?

 

[Wheels]

thank you so much for putting yourself out there and showing us all exactly what goes on - most of us have never seen a stripped saddle and your comments are are very informative

I would really be interested in the list too

 

[EllieandGeorge]

Please could you possibly pm me a list of saddle makes to avoid? This is scaring me a bit!

 

[Beausmate]

Bridles would be good! I've had items from manufacturers that are seen in a good light by people on this forum, one was iffy, the other I wouldn't touch with a very long pole! Sold the iffy stuff and bought my horse an English bridle, well known make and the holes in the headpiece are wonky! I was taught how to make basic bridles at college, would have been embarrassed if my teacher saw me do something like that Maybe the maker had been out on the sauce?

 

[charlimouse]

Thanks for taking the time to write this. It is so interesting, if very scary!

 

[cremedemonthe]

Bridles would be good! I've had items from manufacturers that are seen in a good light by people on this forum, one was iffy, the other I wouldn't touch with a very long pole! Sold the iffy stuff and bought my horse an English bridle, well known make and the holes in the headpiece are wonky! I was taught how to make basic bridles at college, would have been embarrassed if my teacher saw me do something like that Maybe the maker had been out on the sauce?

Clever wording by manufacturers means they call some bridles "handcrafted" which sounds nice doesn't it?
I don't like the descriptions some manufacturers use.
There's hand crafted and there's hand made, hand crafted can be someone using machinery to make most of the bridle cutting, edging,staining,creasing and sewing can all be done on machines including jigs to punch out the holes, if it's not lined up right you may get wonky holes.
Hand made means NO machinery at all, yes you'll still get wonky holes if they have been on the sauce but there's a vast difference usually in quality between handcrafted and handmade, clever marketing will also show an "English Leather Bridle" with a England label hanging on it, when infact yes, it's English leather that has been exported out to a hot country, sat in a warehouse waiting to be used, made into a bridle with foreign buckles, fittings etc and handcrafted at that!
Then back on a ship to Blighty, sat in wholesalers warehouse for a while, then sat in a a shop all the time drying out, to be sold as a Quality English leather bridle, some people have the impression that the whole bridle was made in England NOT just the leather.
I see lots of new English leather bridles in for repair that are dry and the loops have broken, the buckles often break too.
It makes me laugh as customers say to me, I would never buy a imported bridle yet the man who makes the "imported" bridles has also made the "English leather bridles"!
Fine if wholesalers and retailers sell imported, I've got some lurking in the workshop, but be honest about where it comes from

 

[Beentheredonethat]

Could you add me to your pm list. Have a horrible feeling my saddle may be on it.

 

[Beausmate]

It's not dry, smells like English leather and stamped Made In England, but the holes are wonky! That's what you get for letting the YT lad loose with a punch.

 

[Bigbenji]

Thanks for posting Oz.

Please can I have a PM as well?

 

[cremedemonthe]

It's not dry, smells like English leather and stamped Made In England, but the holes are wonky! That's what you get for letting the YT lad loose with a punch.

Probably made in England by a drunk Saddler then!

 

[dilbert]

Hi , would you mind PMing me your list too ? Thank you

 

[Chestnuttymare]

Fascinating stuff, i have never seen a saddle stripped like that before and even if i did i wouldn't have known what it should look like. I am going to have a good look at mine tomorrow. can you send me a copy of the naughty list please. i am a bit twitchy now about mine. Thanks. agree this should be a sticky.