Update on Lari

[Birker2020]

Very sad post to say things haven't worked out with Lari.

If you remember I spent nearly 6 months getting him built up, long reining, lunging, pessoa and later therabands, stepping over raised poles, stretching exercises, etc, etc. This built up his core and top line and really made him stronger. This work included the pro rider starting him again the beginning of Feb after we’d bought a saddle for him and had it expertly fitted by another saddle fitter. She probably rode him a total of 10 or 11 times in the school, he was going very nicely but she noticed he felt uptight at times and a bit spooky. The first week in March he suddenly went lame after a 30 minute light schooling session in the school where he finished sound but then walking across the yard suddenly showed some off strides on what looked like the near fore.

The vet came out a couple of days later. Lari was sound on a straight line. On soft circles he was sound in front but bilaterally lame 2/10 on both outside limbs and lame on a hard circle on both reins. He flexed sound in front but slightly positive to both hind limbs for a few strides.

Vet nerve blocked him. Blocking the right fore abolished the lameness and switched to the left fore 1/10 on right rein and 2/10 left rein which resolved the left fore lameness. This was on a hard surface being lunged on a tight circle, so not entirely unexpected given his age (rising 11 and with all his competition history). Some filling of coffin joints. Proximinal suspensories were both slightly reactive to pressure.

He was reassessed on the 15th March, his SI was still reactive and right fore lameness persisted. He had his SIJ and hocks medicated to help with the SI. He was given back x-rays and two processes were found to be rubbing but it wasn’t definite that these were causing an issue as can be the case sometimes. Both coffin joints showed changes but not massively. He was then ridden one week walk and two weeks walk and trot on the surface by the pro rider. I then got back on him during the latter part of the second week after the saddler came out and reassessed the saddle, and slightly altered the fit. At this stage the pro rider stopped riding him and it was just me. His behaviour got worse (napping towards school and shying in the school and just felt like an unexploded bomb) and resenting being ridden into the school from outside. I elected to find a new rider/instructor and we were going to have a 30 minute walk only session in the school to assess him and give me confidence as the consensus was he was playing up with me. However, a few strides after getting on him at the mounting block he started fly bucking me and I fell off and hurt my SI, though fortunately not too badly.

Three days later on the 20th April the vet visited for another reassessment and he had his back medicated over the two processes and both coffin joints too. His SI was found to be much less reactive following the medication he’d received on the 15th March so this was good news but over KS images was sore on palpation. Vet advised to bring him back into work and see how we got on but everything was steering towards looking favourable. I was reluctant to get back on him again as I'd lost all confidence and I couldn’t find a rider for him we decided to give him time off.

Partner and I reassessed the situation and came to the heart breaking conclusion to try to sell him with full disclosure. So, we sent him to a sales livery to see if he was saleable as we’d given him every opportunity to be pain free and he was sound. Initially he was riding very well, but gradually over the course of the past 11 days he's got progressively worse, both planting in the school and playing up after being mounted and walked off, and is now lame, although not massively, not the guys fault at all, he was brilliant with him, couldn't fault him.

So, it was evident he was struggling and is not up to work so he’s come home and I've arranged for the head vet to visit next week. I can’t say I’m disappointed, to be honest I’m relieved he’s home. I think he’s going to be retired at retirement livery as I can’t really see any other option, he’s clearly still uncomfortable somewhere despite everyone’s best endeavours.

The whole thing has been heart breaking. The vets bills stand at around £1800-£2000 although this is on insurance and my excesses are around £750. I’ve spent probably around £1200 of my own money with buying a new saddle, muscle building supplements, rider fees, sales livery and rehabbing him.

I can't wait to see him later, with his big head over the stable door. I've missed him so much as was so miserable when he was away. The thought of not knowing where he'd end up was heart breaking but at least now I can now secure his future even though it means I wont' be able to have another horse. So it wasn't the outcome I'd hoped for but I don't really have a choice.

If he can live a pain free life in retirement I will ensure that is what happens as he's such a lovely horse and I think he deserves it.

 

[fankino04]

So sorry to read that things didn't go to plan but so pleased for lari that he has an owner who can and will give him a nice retirement x

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

So sorry it hasnt worked out for you in the end after all the hardwork youve put into him x

 

[throwawayaccount]

i'm so sorry to read this birker, i've followed your posts about Lari for a while and you've always done your best.

did he pass a 5* when you bought him?

are there any other options? i'm just wondering if an orthopaedic specialist would help / a 2nd opinion maybe? although i appreciate its already been extremely costly for you, those excesses are a lot!!

 

[Red-1]

I am sorry he didn't work out as you expected. His personality seems to have had a positive impact on the ground and I hope he enjoys his retirement.

 

[Rumtytum]

Oh Birker I am gutted for you. No one could have tried harder, you must be heartbroken.
It’s a mark of your character that your decision puts Lari’s welfare as priority; he’s such a beautiful boy, I hope you will still post photos of him.

 

[Birker2020]

i'm so sorry to read this birker, i've followed your posts about Lari for a while and you've always done your best.

did he pass a 5* when you bought him?

are there any other options? i'm just wondering if an orthopaedic specialist would help / a 2nd opinion maybe? although i appreciate its already been extremely costly for you, those excesses are a lot!!

Yes he passed a five stage vetting, although I have no idea how.

I was wondering if he had gastric ulcers that were causing the right hind lameness.

The right fore lameness could have been caused by a traumatic accident previous to me having him as the farrier found extensive damage on his front, a big crack on the inside heel where he'd over reached.

Thinks this was a long time ago as it had started growing out already.

To be honest I think I'm on a hiding to nothing with anymore vet intervention, he's got too much wrong with him sadly. The vet coming out next week is just to see if he will be comfortable being retired.

I'm looking at retirement livery that's working out around £450 a month and I will probably have to finance this for the next 10 or so years, so its not ideal. But I don't feel I want to look after him myself as its too hard for me seeing people riding and having fun and not being able to do the same, I've done that for long enough and its very difficult.

 

[Birker2020]

Oh Birker I am gutted for you. No one could have tried harder, you must be heartbroken.
It’s a mark of your character that your decision puts Lari’s welfare as priority; he’s such a beautiful boy, I hope you will still post photos of him.

Aw thank you, that's kind of you.

Here are one or two from the day before he was leaving for sales livery. I plastered a smile on my face but inside I was truly heartbroken. I'm so happy he is back in my life. At least if he is retired I can go and visit whenever I want and he can still be part of my life.

I will get another horse one day, the dream isn't over forever.

 

[splashgirl45]

So sorry it hasn’t worked out..such a shame as he looked like a lovely boy who could have done all you wanted.. you have done everything you could and I commend you for thinking of his future,

 

[ycbm]

I'm sorry to read this B, you've done your damdest to get him right and this is a sad reward for your efforts.
.

 

[Birker2020]

I've been reading other peoples threads on here, Wishfilly and Annagain and trying to offer support with their issues whilst realising the outcome would be the same with me (sales livery) and/or retirement livery. And irrespective of the fact we were going to make full disclosure, I didn't want to put anything on the forum whilst he was on sales livery that might have been seen to have prejudiced his chances so I've been biting my tongue for a good while.

I can honestly say the decision to send him to sales livery upset me more than the decision to have Bailey pts because with Bailey it was an inevitable outcome in the end and we'd done so much to help and could do no more, whereas with Lari is wasn't just a case that I was giving up on my horse and felt incredibly guilty to send him away, it was that I was giving up on all the hopes and dreams that I had at the outset. I still can't believe I'll never get the chance to canter him across the field again or jump him round a SJ course.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I'm so sorry to read this, you have done your absolute best and it's one of those cases that just won't go right.

 

[ycbm]

It's a very sad outcome, B. Please just make sure you're going with retirement because it's what you want to do, not because you feel you have to. It's a lot to ask of someone to spend £6k+ a year to keep a horse who can't do what he was bought for and who has no concept of "tomorrow", while you put your riding on hold, when you have reached an age where every year gets a bit less easy physically and mentally.

Neither you nor he deserved this.
.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

It's a very sad outcome, B. Please just make sure you're going with retirement because it's what you want to do, not because you feel you have to. It's a lot to ask of someone to spend £6k+ a year to keep a horse who can't do what he was bought for and who has no concept of "tomorrow", while you put your riding on hold, when you have reached an age where every year gets a bit less easy physically and mentally.

Neither you nor he deserved this.
.

I was going to write something like this but I wasn't brave enough to be the first as some people get quite upset by the suggestion.
There are other options to retirement that don't mean you have to put a hold on your life for potentially the next 15 years + - the only being that suffers is you, as the horse doesn't have any concept of tomorrow as YCBM says.

 

[Birker2020]

It's a very sad outcome, B. Please just make sure you're going with retirement because it's what you want to do, not because you feel you have to. It's a lot to ask of someone to spend £6k+ a year to keep a horse who can't do what he was bought for and who has no concept of "tomorrow", while you put your riding on hold, when you have reached an age where every year gets a bit less easy physically and mentally.

Neither you nor he deserved this.
.

I know what you are saying. I'd lie if I said I'd not thought it myself. But the fact I was so upset that I was never going to see him again has shown me that I think he means more to me than I ever thought possible.

I am also considering (dare I say this on the forum) the blood bank, it all hinges on what the vet says next week, if he can't be retired at either a retirement home or the blood bank without medication then its the end of the road as I can't afford to pay for medication as well as retirement and he is of no use at the blood bank if he is on bute.

If he went to the blood bank however, I could save really hard and get another horse by say next August. And I know of many horses that have gone there and it seems a very lovely life for them. But then I would have to hang on to him until then, it wouldn't be fair to put him on retirement livery only to take him away from new friends again, I feel he's been uprooted enough in his life.

I could also knock the retirement livery down to about £180 pcm if he was to live out 24/7/365 but I am not sure if he could do that - I know plenty of people who have WB's that do this though, so that's probably me rather than him lol. Then I could maybe have another horse, but it will still take me until next August to save, probably longer.

I keep thinking how natural it would be for him to live in a big herd and having lots of friends, maybe a pair buddy, but my partner is aghast at the prospect of him 'being dumped in a field bored' even though that's not the case and he wants me to go down more vet intervention so I can realise my dream. I don't think its likely to happen and I don't want to end up hurt trying to prove otherwise.

 

[Squeak]

I could also knock the retirement livery down to about £180 pcm if he was to live out 24/7/365 but I am not sure if he could do that - I know plenty of people who have WB's that do this though, so that's probably me rather than him lol. Then I could maybe have another horse, but it will still take me until next August to save, probably longer.

I keep thinking how natural it would be for him to live in a big herd and having lots of friends, maybe a pair buddy, but my partner is aghast at the prospect of him 'being dumped in a field bored' even though that's not the case and he wants me to go down more vet intervention so I can realise my dream. I don't think its likely to happen and I don't want to end up hurt trying to prove otherwise.

I'm so sorry to hear this outcome. You really tried and were so unlucky. Horses are such heartbreakers.

Re the living out 24/7, there are some horses that genuinely don't like living out 24/7 but very very few. All my retired ones are happier and healthier out 24/7. Is it worth asking your vet for his opinion on it? It sounds like this would be the win win scenario where you could have another horse as well as keeping Lari.

 

[sbloom]

I'm so sorry Birker, I really feel for you, you've been through the mill more than once him, he's lucky he ended up with you. I completely understand if my idea isn't for you, but first I'd say I wouldn't go down the route of more vet intervention if it was me, I think your instinct is right on that one. However, if you keep him near enough to you, I would seriously consider looking at https://www.wildmagicllc.com/master-class, I keep posting links to it because I'm blown away by the results I see in the master class. It's something that would almost certainly benefit him immensely, and possibly you, even if it can't transform him back into a horse able to be ridden.

I'd also say that 24/7 is highly likely to work for him, almost all horses take to it well when all their mates are on the same schedule.

 

[tda]

So sad to hear this.
I would 100% get him into grass retirement livery.
After some time away, he may become sound enough to enjoy life a bit with you,
I know it's not galloping a xc track, but as you think so much of him, in hand le trec, in hand showing, horse agility etc

 

[Goldenstar]

I cannot tell you how sad this makes me feel.
You deserved to find the right horse .
Poor Lari , now you need to take some time and decide what to do you need to do.
Do not send him to retirement livery unless you really want to .
I will be upfront and say that I have been in this situation and I put the horse to sleep.He is not suffering if he’s gone and I always worry that horses desire to hide their lameness can lead to an chronic pain situation in retirement .
Have a huge hug from me .

 

[PurBee]

Sorry to hear about you and Lari, i’ve been rooting for you both from your progress posts.
You’ve gone the vet route and schooling, and options seem limited, have you considered turning him away for 6-12months, 24/7 turnout herd holiday? - then see if after he’s up for re-assessment and riding? Sometimes time is a great healer, and a good chunk of time off could do you and him good.
What we expect from horses at a point in time doesnt always coincide with where they are at. You havent had him that long, and unless you know his detailed recent history we rarely know what they were exposed to before us, so they rarely get the chance to decompress between change of homes, due to new rider having keen enthusiastic plans, which the horse, for various reasons can’t fulfil at that point in time.

Suggesting this as another option as ive read on here over the years of others who’ve turned their multi-issue horses away for a good chunk of time, and brought them back into work slowly successfully.

My own mare took 10 months to settle with no expectations on her, and i dread to think the journey i would have had if i was keen to get her fulfilling my horse plans and get on her back. I didnt have fixed plans which saved me really! She had been in a long term home and took the change to a completely different place hard. She was lead mare of a mini 3 horse herd too, so was very uprooted.
Yet with time, she did/has transformed. i never realised the patience required to settle some horses and help them grow confidence. Some who have been exposed to lots of change all their life are better at handling change than others - a bit like us humans.

It’s worth a try to let go of any expectations of lari, let him be a gorgeous field ornament with mates for a year on cheap 24/7 turnout livery, and keep options open as to your riding future together. A year doesnt make him any less eligable for the other options youre considering. He’s relatively young. Time away costs relatively little, compared to the journey taken already, and can help you both relax and heal.

Big hug…x

 

[EllenJay]

It's a very sad outcome, B. Please just make sure you're going with retirement because it's what you want to do, not because you feel you have to. It's a lot to ask of someone to spend £6k+ a year to keep a horse who can't do what he was bought for and who has no concept of "tomorrow", while you put your riding on hold, when you have reached an age where every year gets a bit less easy physically and mentally.

Neither you nor he deserved this.
.

I echo this. Think really carefully about if you want to do this. I retired my old boy, had him from a 5 year old and retired him at 19. He lived for 8 years in retirement, costing circa £5k per year. I don't regret if for my old boy, he gave me everything - but I wouldn't do it again for a horse I have only had for a short period of time. Sounds harsh, but finances sometimes need to come into the equation.

So sorry to hear that it's not better news/

Good luck with what ever you decide

 

[scats]

That such a shame birker but you have tried your best for him.
I’m sorry it hasn’t worked out how you had hoped x

 

[Muddy unicorn]

Sorry to read this update but just wanted to say that even where we are in the southeast there are plenty of retirement options which cost a lot less than £450 a month. A friend's just moved her big warmblood who was not coming right despite months of treatment to 24/7 grass livery and it's around £160 a month. It's early days, but so far he's coping well and there are other warmbloods there who have been out all winter and have been fine.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

You were so supportive to me a few months ago Birker so I'm sorry to hear Lari hasn't worked out

I must admit my first thought on seeing the photo of him was he could be a candidate for the blood Bank

As ybcm said, have a good think when the dust settles about what is best FOR YOU.

£400 pcm is a HUGE amount for retirement livery. As the wise senior manager I cried in front of at work over horse costs and how I just couldn't face it anymore said, its the cumulative effect of those costs. That £400 turns into £800 outgoings in total the next month before turning into £4800 a year...

Is there an option of him being a companion to someone trust worthy? You'd be better off at a cheap private DIY yard and having him retired there. Also, there are far worse fates than pts should that be the route you go down...

 

[HashRouge]

I'm so sorry to here this, you've done such a lot for Lari, he really has landed on his feet with you!

I've got a recollection that Lari may have lived out before he was backed and I suspect he might take to 24/7 better than you'd expect!

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

I'm so sorry to read this, I was really hoping it would it would all work out especially after all the hard work you've put in. Whatever you decide to do, Lari is a very lucky horse to have found you.
I'm sure he probably could live out if that's what you decide to do, when I worked on a racing yard all the horses not in work lived out 24/7 high up on the Yorkshire moors, most were unrugged and all came in happy albeit rather hairy if they'd wintered out.

 

[View]

Oh Birker, so sorry. I have been watching and hoping that he would come right.

Of course this has taken a toll on you, so please don’t rush to make your final decision - and there is absolutely nothing to say that you can’t re-evaluate in 6 months etc.

Your determination to do right by him has come through very clearly, but this is now time for you to make sure the decision is right for you.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I’m very sorry to hear your news, B.

If it’s any help, I would turn away for 6 months at grass, no shoes, 24/7 turnout.

I’d reassess in 6 months. If he was sound, super. If not, I’d consider pts at that point. It’s a very long time to keep an unsound horse on livery, and no one here would judge you for making that call.

 

[Northern Hare]

Really sorry to hear this Birker, what a roller coaster you've had with Lari, I'm so sorry that it hasn't worked out.

As you mentioned the Blood Bank in your post, a horse I had 20'ish years ago had recurring ligament lameness. He had been up to Newmarket for treatment but after several cycles of box then field rest and being brought back to work, we unfortunately couldn't keep him sound.

As we lived quite close to the south eastern BB, we decided to give it a go and he settled really well there. I'm not sure if it's still the case but in those days you could go and visit "your" horse afterwards - although the BB purchased the horses from you so were the legal owners.

Anyway, I went over a few times to visit him and he was very happy in the herd and every time he looked on terrific form. Several people I knew have since sent horses there and all had good experiences.

I hope things work out with exploring the options for Lari going forward. ??

 

[southerncomfort]

So sorry B. This is rotten news and you deserved a better outcome after all your hard work trying to get him right.

Horses are such heartbreakers.