Update on Rusky's mystery illness

Thank you everyone.

FF his coat looks fine. It's only the last two weeks that the other horse presented with the same symptoms and we started thinking more about toxic plants because so far there is nothing evident on the property to account for all this. We've stumbled from one possible diagnosis to another, the lattest was the motor neuron disease, but that was negative. I am desperate for a bit of dry weather (this spring has been more like an English autumn than a French spring!) so I can cut the hay in the other fields and they can go there. We had those re-seeded in the last two years and there are no trees or hedges so in that respect there are fewer factors to take into account.
 
If the toxicologist thinks it's in the environment yes that's what we'll do. If she thinks it's everywhere on our property I will have to keep them in until I can find another solution.
 
God, really not sure what to say :( It's just awful.

I really hope you find some answers soon!! I take it getting them off the property and onto a livery yard for a month to see if they improve (so can therefore maintain whether it is the property or something on it) is out of the Q? I think if it were me, I wouldn't be turning any of the horses out and buying in haylage etc from elsewhere for a few weeks if not to determine whether or not it is something in the fields or what.

I really, really do feel for you. It is just awful, really awful :(
 
I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry to hear of your horses' conditions. As someone who has spent hour after hour researching and e-mailing every renowned vet I can find the details for I know how utterly soul destroying it can be :(
Have you tried e-mailing researchers at universities? I got lucky with one of these.

All my best wishes, such an awful situation.
 
Perfect_Pirouette said:
God, really not sure what to say :( It's just awful.

I really hope you find some answers soon!! I take it getting them off the property and onto a livery yard for a month to see if they improve (so can therefore maintain whether it is the property or something on it) is out of the Q? I think if it were me, I wouldn't be turning any of the horses out and buying in haylage etc from elsewhere for a few weeks if not to determine whether or not it is something in the fields or what.

I really, really do feel for you. It is just awful, really awful :(
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I think i really would try and take them off property for a few weeks and see if they improve, that will tell you volumes about whether its something on your land??? Hugs xxx
 
How horrendous for you! :(

I'm sure you're on it but have you tried randomly contacting the big foreign vet schools - Kentucky, Guelph, etc? Just on the off chance they've seen something similar locally.

Many many years (okay, decades) ago we had an epidemic in Ontario of what was almost certainly, in hindsight, Potomac Fever. It was many years before the disease was "discovered" but there must have been other "mystery outbreaks" before someone put the pieces together.

In the same vein, a horse I worked with came down with a bizarre and horrific case of what initially looked like colic and then became neurological and took on all the hallmarks of poisoning. By fluke I had read a story in Equus magazine about a similar case from Red Maple poisoning, which is particularly bizarre as the leaves are only at their most toxic when wilting, not green or dried. Lo and behold, it turned out there was one Red Maple in the score or so of Silver Maples the owner had planted as a windbreak around the paddock and one branch from that particular tree had blown in during a storm. The affected filly was the boss and clearly got the lion's share of leaves when they were next turned out. So many of these "mystery illnesses" - fescue poisoning, tick fevers etc - seem dependent on a "perfect storm" of conditions, making them so extraordinarily difficult to track.

The very best of luck to you. I hope you get an answer.
 
I'll try to reply to all the suggestions.

First of all thank you for all the help and good wishes.

The hay comes from outside the property, from two different sources in the last 18 months. There is nothing out of the ordinary about it, no weird plants in it, no mould.

If it comes to it I will have to move them but I am not sure how it can be done. I don't think that 4 horses, two of which have an unknown contageous terminal illness, one of which is on its last legs are a YM's ideal clients. If the cause is toxicity the horses would have to be removed from the source for months before there was an sign of improvement so box resting is not really an option.

I am in touch with a large specialist muscle wastage research centre in the US and they are trying to contact a researcher in Belgium for me. I was very surprised to find out that there are a number of deaths each year due to muscle wastage with unknown causes and diagnoses. It seems to be a very problematic area.

Sycamore trees and the bacterium Clostidium sordelliii have been identified in studies as possible causes of atypical myopathy...the problem is that atypical myopathy symptoms come on within 72 hours, not 18 months. There are more typical myopathy conditions that are chronic but R's biopsy was negative for those and none of his tests are indicative of them (e.g. nutritional deficiencies can cause these symptoms, but his vit E and Selenium levels are normal). I am trying to organise a second biopsy at a different lab at the Royal Vet College in case something was missed by the first biopsy.

If anyone is interested there is a good summary of diagnostic proceedures here:
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/Diagnosticatrophy/

All of R's presentation points to motor neuron disease, but the involvement of another horse and the negative biopsy put paid to that theory.
 
We've all been here since September 2010 (same four horses all the time that I had in the UK before that), R's first symtom started about January 2012. The previous owner bred racehorses here for the last 30 years but had scaled down to one horse when we had viewed the property - that one horse looked fine when we viewed.
 
Get a toxin binder into their diet. Worst case scenario it will do nothing but it definitely won't do any harm. Activated charcoal can me used but something like UltraSorb may be better given the severity of the situation.
 
Hi, your boy looks like ours did. I have spoken to a friend today who's horse had the same symptoms. Sadly they lost him and when the pm him he was full of the same worm. The worm count and blood tests had come back negative for worms every time.
 
Quick update from yesterday:

The toxicologist stayed for hours on end, apparently our property is a research paradise as we have plants that are no longer in existence in the area as well as weird imported speciments (sigh!). She took about 20 samples to analyse and research as apparently she needs to look into old books to find the symptoms of eating some of these weird things. Apparently the area has loads more toxic plants than the UK.

In addition she found 3 yew trees (I had been looking for yew hedges and was not aware of the yew tree, I am an idiot!). At the first tree she said we had to fence this off asap as it is extremely toxic to horses and ingestion of a tiny amount leads to instant death...then she saw the third tree whose bark had been thoroughly chewed by the horses and started taking photos!!!

We also have sycamore trees but she could not immediately identify the variety, they are not the ones from the study on atypical myopathy.

Needless to say the horses are in the hay field now, fenced off in small paddocks, I hope they are small enough. The hay field also has one weird crop in it (I have to say 'crop' because it takes up 1/4 of my newly re-seeded field, so &*"&£**&^?!!!) which the toxicologist is off to identify so I can't really win, can I?

The specialist also said that this area is very poor for horses because the ground lacks in minerals and the grass isn't sufficient nutrition. Also that there are loads more worms so she will look into an intensive worming schedule in case that is the source of the problem. And she will do me a special diet for R and for all the others.

To top off my day Freddy was lame on the front right when we lunged him for no evident reason!
 
Gosh, big hugs for you but sounds like you are on track with more things to investigate. Hope it works out.
 
Def won't be atypical myopathy, we lost three to it and it comes on very quickly and they deteriorate in no time
 
Forgot to say, the yew trees are so toxic we were advised to even keep the toddler well away! :eek:

amandaco2: R and F have always been on general supplements, the others have lived off grass all year round. The vet said that you can do this on UK grass but not south of France grass that is nutritionally very poor. She's gone off with bags from everything they eat to decide what more they all need.

The other interesting thing is that horses local and native to the area tend to have adapted to the nutritional deficiencies and to the toxic plants, she sees all the problems with imported horses. Add to this that if you have a competition horse round here (which mostly tend to be imported) you traditionally keep them stabled 24/7 and therefore more dependent on hay/hard feed for nutrition than grass, it's only the stupid foreigners who turn out their stupid foreign horses that have problems!
 
I would say, having relocated a horse, I'd have to think hard before doing it again. I've not had anything as dramatic as your experience but it's hardly been an easy process. I never really thought much about it as have dealt with lots of horses FROM Europe and not had much trouble.
 
I somehow missed your earlier reports too, but I'm really sorry to hear that two of yours are so poorly! Hopefully, your plant person can get to the bottom of it now! And also hoping that they start to improve soon!
 
So sorry to hear this, it must be a constant worry and upset on your shoulders.

Fingers crossed the toxicologist comes back with some information you can go forwards with and try to find the cause/solution.
 
Sorry I can't add anything useful but just wanted to say how horrible this must be, and to wish you luck and hope you get a (good/positive) answer soon x
 
Sounds like the toxicology lady took away lots to work on and I will keep everything crossed she comes up with an answer.

I only asked about the coat as I expected it to have gone 'off'. Maybe take hope in that if his coat still looks good he is not 'that' ill despite the weight loss etc and so can and will come back better than ever. Thinking of you and Rusky and Fred.
 
Only just seen this thread. How very worrying and stressful:( Fingers crossed the toxicologist comes up with a definitive cause and solution (and/or the boys pick up on their different pasture.)

Good luck and fwiw,Rusky still looks fairly perky and alert in the pics you posted (looking out,not just standing with head dropped,miserable or sweating etc) so hopefully he feels much better than you think he looks:)
Keep us posted:)
 
I just wanted to add my good wishes. I can only imagine how distressing this is for you. Hope you have some answers & solutions soon xx
 
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