Update on Summer

[jj_87]

Heartbroken for you xxx

 

[Goldenstar]

How do you mean GS, you hope I do the right thing because YOU don’t want to tell the story, etc etc?

Whoever rings for you tells the dealer they hope the dealer does the right thing and has her back no hassle or you will tell your story on the Internet .
Sorry it was late last night .

 

[w1bbler]

Also, when talking to the dealer, it might be worth pointing out there are several threads on here, where you mention the dealer & lots of us are following your story.
It might help her to decide if she will help you out.
Definately get a 'proper' diagnosis from a vet first though & get them to advise if bloods from the vetting should be run

 

[SEL]

I really feel for you. Depending on how you get on with the vet and the dealer, a horse which has shivers isn't the end of the world (although given how much you paid I do think dealer needs to take her back). I know a part bred Shire who is still being ridden in her 20s. Yes, feet trims need to be done with patience and I'm pretty sure she'd do better with vitamin E in winter but she jumps, hacks, schools nicely etc.

Let us know how you get on. With what has happened I think you would feel better if she went back to the dealer, you had time to recover and then find the right horse for your next adventure xx

 

[Rowreach]

ETA: if shivering can be seen on the vid might be worth sending vid to your vet...?

Video is interesting, not least because of the careful editing and that the girl only actually picks one hind up, gets an undesirable response, and then doesn't really try to lift the other hind at all.

I'm not surprised she passed the dealer's vet tbh.

Did your own vet do flexion OP? I'm guessing probably not, I can't see her coping well with that.

 

[Reacher]

I’m sorry you are in this position and hope that your concussion and injuries are on the mend. I don’t know anything about shiverers but am confused as to why a vet wouldn’t pick it up in the pre purchase vetting.
I understand you are feeling rough and not feeling up to dealing with the dealer but I do think a short factual message advising her that the horse is suspected of shivers and you will be understanding veterinary investigations would be a good idea.
Ps I would make a copy of the advertisement video in case it disappears

 

[Tiddlypom]

I understand you are feeling rough and not feeling up to dealing with the dealer but I do think a short factual message advising her that the horse is suspected of shivers and you will be understanding veterinary investigations would be a good idea.
Ps I would make a copy of the advertisement video in case it disappears

This.

Poor OP has had her brains scrambled with concussion, and is not currently best placed to lodge a convincing argument with the dealer. However, so much time has already passed (deposit paid 18 July, horse delivered 27 July) that IMHO she does need to crack on and open the dialogue, pending further veterinary invesigations.

 

[Nasicus]

Definitely 100% download a copy of the dealers video. There are websites for downloading youtube videos, but definitely do it, there's some obvious issues around the 4:30 mark, with the hind legs being picked out and then a weird cut between picking up the right fore and putting it down again.

 

[Asha]

Catembi, some great advice on this thread. I would without hesitation do what Reacher suggests. You need to get some information over to the dealer asap, and let them know that when you are well enough you will be taking this further. At least that way you will have a date in writing that you started the ball rolling.

Once you've don't that, you must give yourself sometime to get better. I hope this works out for you, keep us posted.

 

[MrsMozart]

I'm so sorry lass. It really is [insert expletive of choice].

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Blimey I ve just caught up with this thread..catembi I’m gutted for you. It also floated through my memory that someone else bought a horse from same dealer shortly after you..wonder if they have encountered any problems. I don’t have any words of advice just heaps of healing vibes for you both.

 

[catembi]

Vet is coming tomo, then we shall see where we are. **sighs** She *is* a nice horse though, so it's such a shame.

 

[BlackRider]

So sorry to hear this - I hope you can come to an arrangement with Gerty.

 

[Floxie]

Catambi, I have screencapped (copied) the part of the video where her hooves are picked (as others said, in case it goes 'missing'). If you'd like a copy, PM me your email address.

So sorry about this I was really enjoying following this adventure with you x

 

[Chinchilla]

Ugh, how awful for all involved. Maxillofacial injuries are such a ******* too. Let us know what you decide to do re. the dealer....I really like your little mare so this is such a shame xx

 

[ElectricChampagne]

This is devastating, I've been following your story from the start and was delighted to hear you were getting on well. I'd not logged in for a while and I am absolutely devastated reading this thread.

Wishing you a very speedy recovery and I hope you ok.

With regards to the sales vid, I have to agree, there is something strange at the 4.30 minute mark and the lack of picking up the off hind properly is odd. then the funny editing of the foreleg. definitely do download a copy of the video if you can and keep several copies of it in different storage devices/locations just in case.



Sending you hugs and healing vibes and I hope whatever you do it works out for you.

 

[catembi]

Oh thank you v much to all those who have taken the trouble to pore over the sales video, & especially to Floxie for copying it.

I am undecided what to do atm. I will see what the vet says tomo. My last ID had stringhalt which isn't a million miles away, & we managed just fine, & people on my thread in vets have posted lots of stories re shiverers being okay, apart from picking up back legs, so maybe we will be able to crack on. Dunno. Who knows with horses. I havve a movement specialist coming to see her on 29th, so that might be interesting.

Thank you everyone for your support!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

In view of the injury that you sustained which would probably have been avoidable if you had known about a pre-existing condition, if there is one, I suggest that after you have had the veterinary assessment, you take legal advice.

 

[Remi'sMum]

Just caught up on this, I’m so sorry Catembi. Hopefully your vet will shed some light tomorrow.

 

[[59668]]

Oh wow I just logged on specifically to see how you were coming along with Summer. I am so sorry to hear all this. How really awful for you both. I have no words of wisdom I'm afraid, but really feel for you.

 

[Leo Walker]

This really sucks I hope you can find a way to work it out without too much stress and upset.

 

[catembi]

Well, the vet has been and we have a diagnosis of mild shiver. It is subtle but it's there. And to muddy the waters, he said that it's slight, so if he himself had been doing the vetting, he might not have spotted it. Because he was specifically looking for it, he could clearly see the quivering on both sides. So we have been left with a high spec vit E supplement and I have joined the BHS as a gold member to get a legal opinion. It is v v clear from the sales video (now safely dowloaded - thank you Floxie) that there was a shiver on picking up the near hind & a v perfunctory pick up of the off hind - but it's only extremely clear because I know what I'm looking for. As a few seconds of footage from an 8 minute video, it looked like a normal horse that was picking its feet up without too much fuss.

**sighs**

 

[Fools Motto]

From my experience purely on the basis of the one horse I looked after, and of several that I know about, shivers wouldn't bother me.
BUT
I want to know, how a vet couldn't see it. I mean, during a vetting, the feet are picked up, a flexion test performed. This would highlight a shiverer.

Just out of interest, which hind leg were you picking up when your accident happened?

I hope you can get your mind around it all, I'm sure we here on HHO will be in full support of your future journey.

 

[Wheels]

I don't think it matters that it is only mild or may not have been picked up by the vet. I would still be having a conversation with the dealer about sending the horse back - if you had known in advance then you would probably not have bought the horse or if you did you would have expected a large discount AND highly likely would not have ended up injured

 

[Tiddlypom]

Did your vet do flexions this am? IMHO Summer doesn't always look 'right' behind in trot in the sales video.

 

[ihatework]

Well, the vet has been and we have a diagnosis of mild shiver. It is subtle but it's there. And to muddy the waters, he said that it's slight, so if he himself had been doing the vetting, he might not have spotted it. Because he was specifically looking for it, he could clearly see the quivering on both sides. So we have been left with a high spec vit E supplement and I have joined the BHS as a gold member to get a legal opinion. It is v v clear from the sales video (now safely dowloaded - thank you Floxie) that there was a shiver on picking up the near hind & a v perfunctory pick up of the off hind - but it's only extremely clear because I know what I'm looking for. As a few seconds of footage from an 8 minute video, it looked like a normal horse that was picking its feet up without too much fuss.

**sighs**

You have had a nasty injury and that is enough to shake anyone up and make them question things. I’m going to remove that from the equation with what I’m about to say.

The dealer may or may not have known, or suspected, a shiver. If they did know then knowing Irish dealer mentality they probably didn’t consider it an issue. An intermittent mild shiver could easily slip through on a vetting.
It possibly/probably still isn’t an issue for what you want to do, although nobody has a crystal ball for the answers on that.

The injury has presumably given you a wobble and a confidence knock. It would be natural to blame the accident on the undeclared shiver, but it is also quite conceivable it was just an unconnected random unlucky incident too.

In my mind you have 3 choices.
1) crack on - it’s not necessarily a disaster, you’ve got what you’ve got and if everything else was headed in the right direction then she could still be the right horse for you.
2) fight to return the horse. Get BHS advice and follow it quickly, don’t be hanging around. I would consider testing the bloods, if it’s a neuro symptom bought about by something physical they may have been injecting or something else.
3) get the horse bought on - jump a few BN and get her out hunting and sell her with the mild shiver declared. Just because it’s an issue for you doesn’t mean it will be for someone else if she does their job.

FWIW a few years back I bought a horse from a small time dealer over here in the UK. After about a couple of months or so a stringhalt suddenly appeared. I always suspected something was a bit fishy especially as when looking back at it the story didn’t quite add up. I opted for option 1 - crack on with what I had

 

[catembi]

Thank you. I am doing a combination of 1) and 2). We are going to crack on as soon as the crack in the front foot has grown out, but I have also phoned the BHS legal helpline, and left a message. I can see the whole legal thing being an uphill struggle right from the word go.

I had an ID with stringhalt ages ago & she was fine - I worked around it. TBH if this (and the foot issue...) are the only things wrong with her, I'll be okay with it - except I'd havve paid about £2.5k less for her & handled the back feet differently.

Vet says 100% sound behind this morning, FWIW.

 

[Michen]

Catembi for what it’s worth, I have read somewhere either on here or dreaded Facebook that court battles have been won against ISE but she has evaded payment. Not sure how or the details but I do remember reading it. It’s one thing to take someone to court, it’s another thing as to whether you ever get your money- as I found out when sueing over the misold mare when all sorts of other things came out of the woodwork.

Thank you. I am doing a combination of 1) and 2). We are going to crack on as soon as the crack in the front foot has grown out, but I have also phoned the BHS legal helpline, and left a message. I can see the whole legal thing being an uphill struggle right from the word go.

I had an ID with stringhalt ages ago & she was fine - I worked around it. TBH if this (and the foot issue...) are the only things wrong with her, I'll be okay with it - except I'd havve paid about £2.5k less for her & handled the back feet differently.

Vet says 100% sound behind this morning, FWIW.

 

[ester]

Cat are you on the cambs horsepoo fb page?

only because there was a 7yo ISH by Cruise on mare with a slight shiver for sale yesterday. It stood out to me as not dissimilar to yours (also grey!). I actually thought she was ID so might have been a useful comparison for market value (2.5k) but she isn't.

 

[catembi]

Hi there, yes I'm on Horsepoo Cambs so I shall have a look.

Thank you for the info re court cases - as you've said, it's one thing to get a verdict (and probs quite hard work even to get that) and another to get payment.

Oh well, it is what it is. She is a sweet horse & has just been following me around while I've been poo picking.