Update on the bucker

There is obviously something mentally/emotionally/physically wrong with this horse. if it was my own horse i would do everything i could to make it feel happy, its obviously is uncomfortable somewhere along the line. i cant beleive how many people have suggested putting it to sleep! have u checked the saddle fits properly? its highly unlikely that a horse is doing it out of spite, they are naturally flight animals not fighters! just a suggestion, but as its not your horse its not up to you. if its been checked out physically then i guess there is not much more you can do.
good luck!
Lucy x
 
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The thing that concerns me is the fact it tries to kick you as when you come off! Not nice

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I aggree, that wasnt nice.

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Well dont ride it Danger Woman lol!
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Personally I just feel that the owner shoud be doing more to investigate what is wong with the horse, if anything, rather than putting you on as a crash test dummy and thanking her lucky stars its not her!

You shoudnt take any silly risks, its not your horse, I think you need to have a talk with the owner.
 
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Why do you want to ride a horse like that? there are so many nice horses to ride, send it back!

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I dont want to ride it, I took it on as its what I do! Owner wanted it worked so she could maybe ride it again, dont think she will ever dare though.
 
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The thing that concerns me is the fact it tries to kick you as when you come off! Not nice

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I agree i wouldnt get on the thing!
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However I think PTS is over the top at this stage, I would want second opinion on back, teeth and tack, espec back, McTimoney perhaps.
 
She said it bucked twice for no reason and she fell off, she wanted someone to school it for her till she felt happy riding it again. However if she had descibed its bucks proberly to begin with I would have told her reschooling probably isnt going to help much.
 
financially or physically!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get her to buy a nice one!! put someone else on it!!! get a 2nd opinion from another respected rider 2 go to the owner with!!!!!!
 
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I know! I am planning on having a serious talk with the owner, but I dont think she is going to like it very much. It is my job, and I do have a few horses I would rather not ride, but cant pick and chose too much, or I would be broke
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Totally understand that, and if You didnt feel he was dangerous I would say crack on and you will probably get somewhere, but I think you are a very tough cookie when it comes to riding, and you are a very good rider, and if you feel that it is actually dangerous and as unpredicatlable as you say, it just aint worth it.

I would certainly encourage some more physical health tests, how old is it?
 
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financially or physically!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get her to buy a nice one!! put someone else on it!!! get a 2nd opinion from another respected rider 2 go to the owner with!!!!!!

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I wouldnt ask someone else to ride it, I dont think that would be very kind! I got on it thinking it cant be too bad and then found myself on the floor, bit wiser now and feel prepared to stop him, but think anyone else riding him for the first time would have the same problem. Wouldnt be very fair
 
7ish, I suggested getting a vet out to give it a really good check over, but tbh I think its in his head. He goes so well most of the time, really softens and works beautifully, makes a lovely shape over a fence. Just doesnt feel like a physical problem, just a hunch though, but so far no one has found anything wrong with it. I dont think anyone has ever got back on after falling off, as it did get p****d off when i did, and then upped the antics till eventually giving in.
 
I know from firsthand knowledge what a difficult situation you are in with a horse like this. I've just had to take the decision to have my 6 year old PTS two weeks ago following several very difficult months trying to get to the bottom of his problems. My boy was rearer rather than bucker, not just little ones, but from all four feet on the floor to vertical instantly and in many cases would go straight over backwards. To cut a very long story short, after having all the usual checks carried out ie. tack/vet checks/chiropracter et al, we thought we had everything sorted. We knew he had done some damage to his pelvis, and this had been rectified and that he was fully OK to commence work again but the difficult part was getting him past the expectation of pain. For several weeks it looked like we had managed this then out of the blue, with no warning, he went straight over again. No physical reason why this time and he continued to do this. One the advice of the professional trainer he was with I made the very hard decision to have him PTS. I couldn't have it on my conscience that he hurt himself further or ended up seriously hurting or killing someone.

I suppose what I'm saying is that when you speak to the horse's owner she/he has to start looking at this realistically and not bury her/his head in the sand about the situation.

More importantly please think twice about whether you really need to continue riding this horse because if you do get hurt, how long is it before you will be able to work again? And how long before this starts to erode your confidence?
 
Hmm well I think its a decision only you can make, many people would think what Jerry did was too dangerous, but its different when its your own horse, you go that extra mile You just have to ask yourself what happens if this horse kicks you in mid air and you break something, then you cant ide any horses.
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I wouldnt ask someone else to ride it, I dont think that would be very kind! I got on it thinking it cant be too bad and then found myself on the floor, bit wiser now and feel prepared to stop him, but think anyone else riding him for the first time would have the same problem. Wouldnt be very fair

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fair enough, is really that bad then!! I think that although i wudnt get on it, i cudnt put a mental, but healthy horse down and am not slating those who wud or have as is each to thier own, but is deffo not something that i cud do!! So really u r his life line!! is this y u persist? what is it bred for, and what has it actually done in its life??? at some point was it sane or has it always been a nutta?? alkward situation for u!!!!!
 
Please do not use text speak! The main benefit (if that is the right word) of this horse being PTS is that he is then no longer a danger to himself or others, unless somebody is in the fortunate position of letting him be a field ornament for the rest of his life, then it is the fairest option. If he isnt PTS he could end up being passed from pillar to post, and abused or neglected or worse hurt somebody. I would sooner do the right thing if he were mine.
 
I see where you are coming from, my horse is capable of seriously dangerous behaviour but selling her/breeding from her/PTS all just smack of admitting defeat. Once you take on a challenge giving up on it feels like you are accepting failure. But as others have said, the horse isn't really your problem and you've nothing to lose by saying you won't ride it, but if you do ride it you risk getting injured or even killed. Only you can decide how big of a risk it is and if its really worth it. How talented is the horse? How good of a friend/customer is the owner? How much are they perpared to pay??!! Try not to let your pride influence your decision. The bloke who got my horse going is amazing with horses that by most people's standards are phychos, I can give you details to pass on to the owner if you decide not to proceed, if you like (but I am in the North West)
 
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I got on it thinking it cant be too bad and then found myself on the floor, bit wiser now and feel prepared to stop him, but think anyone else riding him for the first time would have the same problem. Wouldnt be very fair

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Have you pin-pointed anything that triggers the bucking (or the feeling that he's going to?) I read the original thread and you said:

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tbh I think it is reaction to some memory of pain, has to be. He isnt a nasty horse the rest of the time,

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I had one like this in last month - it was a last ditch attempt by the owners to see if he could be 'cured' of bucking before they retired him to the field as a paddock ornament. He was a horse who had been rescued from a very sub-standard trekking centre - very bad back, skin and bone (probably starved to make him behave.) His back had been treated, everything checked out but he kept bucking in certain circumstances but - otherwise - he was the nicest horse to do anything with (although uneducated.)

We decided it had to be remembered pain - triggered by some slight shift of balance/weight by the rider which reminded him that such movements HURT (in the past.) We put a Suber pad under the saddle (which fitted fine) and started basic education - then we put him in all the tempting situations (other horses leaving him behind, in particular.) No bucks! He improved enormously in 5 weeks and went home - where - touching wood frantically - there has been NO bucking.

The Suber pads are wierd - I don't like riding in them normally because you can't feel the horse's back very well. But the horse can't feel YOU very well either which means he can't feel any little shift of weight/balance that might trigger a reaction to remembered pain!

I really don't think you could school a horse to any advanced work in one - but if the horse doesn't feel any need to buck for - say - 6 months, then chances are he could be put back in a normal numnah and would continue to behave. In the case of the horse here, I have advised the owner to keep him in the Suber pad for ever (he is a relatively novice rider and only wants to hack and hunt.)

Might be worth a try!

The other thing I would suggest is that the kicking out when you fall may be fear - perhaps someone came off him before and was caught in the stirrup, or hung onto the reins and hurt his mouth, or
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A youngster we had in to back a couple of years ago went home going well - but got tense when owner started riding him. (She's ridden him here several times with no problems!) The tension built over about a week and one day he just WENT - put her through the manege fence and damaged her back quite badly. He came back - and we found him terribly tense - FAR worse than at first backing. The slightest move in the saddle and he took off! We rode him through that but didn't make REAL progress so advised owners to give him 6 months in the field and then send him back. He took off once - we let him and rode him through it and after that he was fine. I am SURE that he expected people to throw themselves off him and it frightened him (he'd had very little handling as a youngster.) It might be worth desensitising him to 'things' leaving the saddle - perhaps lunge him with some pillows loosely looped to the saddle so that they'll shake loose and fall while he's working - see if he tries to kick them. Keep doing it until he's SO used to things 'falling off' that it doesn't frighten him anymore!

These problem horses are SO challenging - if they could talk it would be much easier - but the main thing is not to kill yourself in the process! Be careful!
 
I do feel that it is a memory of somekind, as it is such a huge reaction. Like a flip switch almost. I lunged him with the stirrups down today to see if that bothered him and he was fine, couldt care less to things flapping round his sides. The only thing he is funny with is having rugs taken off, he is fine having them on, but when you take them off he shakes. Dont know if this is anything to do with it.

He is talanted and was bred to event, turning out for the rest of his days isnt an option. I do feel like his lifeline
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My friend uses a suber pad on her horse as no saddle sits right on him, its good you can see when you take the saddle off where there is little gaps. they are quite expensive though, its about £90.
 
I wouldn't be bothered with all this sort of nonsense these days, I prefer my quiet lot who just get on with the job in hand without resorting to cavorting around and throwing themselves up in the air......however......

....I have mentioned this before; I used to ride for a living too and one of the horses I had was a serial rearer, sounds very similar to this horse of yours, except she showed no malice AT ALL and would never have attacked me, she just reared all the time. I ended up becoming her rider because she started going over backwards with people and she had seriously injured a number of people. I did know this at the time but I still took her on. I had MANY moments with this horse in the 2 years I rode her for her owner, however they became more infrequent as time went on. She got to the stage where she would only rear about 1 ride out of every 5 rides. She had all the checks a number of times etc. nothing found wrong, so I agree with Janet's thoughts of remembered pain. I do know, from doing some research on the mare that some undesirable things had happened to her.

When I moved house I had to give notice to her owner as was no longer able to travel the distance to go and ride her. About 2 months later, the owners had a family meeting and it was decided that they wanted to give her to me. I accepted her and kept/rode her for the rest of her life, which was another 14 years. I'd say they were very happy years; she is the only horse I can hand on heart say I have truly loved; absolutely unconditionally.

I think you need to forget about the financial side of this and try to answer some other questions for yourself; do you like this horse and do you think you can benefit it in some way? What is the ultimate goal at the end of you riding it? And do you believe this goal is attainable?

With my mare, we clicked. Pure and simple that was all it was. Towards the end she became so good that I'd say she only reared about 1 in every 10 rides, and none of them were the serious sh1t that she used to do in the early days, but she did try to do them with some other people who tried to ride her. When she injured someone badly, I stopped anyone else from ever riding her. Her and I just got along, and that was how it remained for the rest of her time on this Earth.

Please don't do this for the money. No point ending up a cripple; you have to KNOW that there is some deep connection there between you, otherwise I fear that the horse is not capable of being helped and you should let it go now.

Sorry to ramble on but I haven't had time to be on here for a few days
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I do feel that it is a memory of somekind, as it is such a huge reaction. Like a flip switch almost. I lunged him with the stirrups down today to see if that bothered him and he was fine, couldt care less to things flapping round his sides. The only thing he is funny with is having rugs taken off, he is fine having them on, but when you take them off he shakes. Dont know if this is anything to do with it.
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Mmm - that's interesting. (the rugs coming off) They would be far more VISIBLE to him than the stirrups. And it IS a positive sign that fear is involved. I would try lunging him - first with some tea-towels attached to the irons, then something larger (pillows are good!) Maybe he's been 'chased' by a rug coming part off (or a rider!) I think I'd be experimenting with every sort of desensitisation I could think of - when you find something that triggers a fear reaction, you're halfway there!

He's telling you SOMETHING! You need to be listening all the time to try and work out what it is.

I would be far LESS optimistic about your chances if there was NO sign of fear to any stimulii - because that MIGHT indicate a brain tumour - for which there'd be no help.
 
wtf lol pmsl!!can speak as i like FATarse, u dont have to read it or reply to it!!! dont think the horse needs putting down, wud b very sad as obviously has some kind of prob that needs attention, just wudnt want to ride it!!!!!!!
 
Indeed you can pinktiger, but I along with others find text speak very difficult to read and understand, and as the point of posting is to communicate it seems unfortunate that you feel the need to use text speak.
 
really cant see y is so diff to read!! havnt had any compl'ts so far been here a while, and plenty of ppl have got the point of what am saying and thats what counts!!! Madhector needs the posts and vibes not me!! thanks tho ne way!! (ne thing not understood or unreadable pm me)
 
Poor horse! I used to ride a mare like that (Rip, she is now sadly departed). She was an ex riding school pony, like a tank to ride but when you got her working properly she was a amazing. When she was on one, dammit she was on one.. I would kick, and pray and I would be stood in my stirrups looking at the floor because the head just dissapeard and the back end came up, she would also bronk sideways, an I seemed to stay on though, it gave me confidence wierdly enough because when she was going well she was such a comfy lil horse to ride. The owner just hacked her, but sadly Dutchess Coliced and died. I had worked with her to the point that she knew that the bucking wasn't going to get her off work. We went from bucking in a walk when I first go on, to the very occasional buck in canter. Nobody knew her past either so anything could of happened to her. To be honest, it is up to you to decide weather or not this horse is worth the risk of you being seriously injured, if you think you can work with the horse and help it then fine. On the other hand if you think that the horse is just too "messed up in the head" then I would leave it, its not worth it, especcially since it sounds like it wants you off when it bucks!!
 
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