Update on the rat issue

[ycbm]

And on that theme I was horrified to read this today about the RSPB's manual on electric fencing: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/12/electric-fences-cruel-threat-beloved-wildlife/

I know the writer may not be everyone's cup of tea and I am not actually a Telegraph reader (it was brought to my attention) but what he has written is easily verified and pretty horrifying .

I can only read the opening paragraph.


Surely it isn't possible to electrocute a badger that way? He's talking about an electric fence and we've all touched one of those. Mine is 10,000v. The shock is for an extremely short time, not life threatening. Overhead power lines are 4000 volts continuously, you only get 240 volts in a wire low enough for a badger to bite.

If badgers have supposedly been found dead, this either sounds apocryphal, or people are actually using a 240v line without an earth leakage circuit braker on it.

Then the question is if that's a cruel death, we electrically stun animals in abattoirs and my OH, who is trained on 4000 volt power lines, says as low as 60v from a power line will, in the right circumstances, stop the heart of a cow and he's sure 240v would simply stop the heart of a badger.

I suspect Botham has just got the wrong end of the stick and the RSPB are recommending this method to ensure that the badger gets a shock and goes away from the fence instead of brushing under it with a thick insulating coat.
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[ycbm]

OK I've now read the entire article and it's simply a long rant against electric fences. And about a manual produced by the RSPB which they say was withdrawn, its not clear how long ago.

I'm not sure how farmers and horse owners are supposed to manage animals without them.

Botham has "instructed lawyers", has the man nothing better to do with his time and money? Hint Bothy, there are little girls being sold to pay for food in Afghanistan!
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[palo1]

OK I've now read the entire article and it's simply a long rant against electric fences. And about a manual produced by the RSPB which they say was withdrawn, its not clear how long ago.

I'm not sure how farmers and horse owners are supposed to manage animals without them.

Botham has "iwyers", has the man nothing better to do with his time and money? Hint Bothy, there are little girls being sold to pay for food in Afghanistan!
.

I agree with you but some of the excerpts that he has used are pretty 'extreme' and the idea of 'baiting' fences for predators, even if withdrawn now, would be seen as totally unacceptable. I know he is ranting too but the RSPB has got itself into a complex web of double standards lately. It actually really troubles me, even though I am passionate about protecting bird life - particuarly our most vulnerable birds. I am totally conflicted for example about the stoat trapping that has killed cats and hedgehogs even though I want to see the protection of ground nesting birds.

From the Herald in January of this year:-

''IT seemed a simple plan and was designed to eradicate an alien predator from an internationally important archipelago for wildlife.

But police are now involved in a £6 million scheme to eradicate stoats from Orkney after a sustained attack by vandals and thieves following other species of animals, including cats, being killed by traps.

The traps that are designed to wipe out the stoat population have inadvertently caught and killed cats as well as hundreds of other animals.
Pet owners are now concerned after the dead cats were found and another was found injured by the traps.

Other wildlife casualties included 242 rabbits, 48 mice, 18 hedgehogs, 10 voles and nine frogs and toads since the scheme launch in 2017, said cull coordinators the Orkney Native Wildlife Project.
Scottish SPCA chief superintendent Mike Flynn said at the time it hoped that planned alterations to the size of the entrance would prevent any further incidents happening.
But Police Scotland has now confirmed that it is investigating a number of incidents involving damage to and the theft of traps.

A spokesman said there had been a number of incidents throughout last year and they are still happening.
The traps were placed at numerous locations throughout Orkney including at Stromness, South Ronaldsay, Deerness and Evie throughout 2020.
In total around 6,500 traps have been laid for the stoat eradication project.
It is the world’s largest clearance programme of the animal and so far more than 780 have been killed.
More than 700 landowners have given permission for the internationally important conservation project.''

(https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19011526.row-stoat-cull-mass-deaths-animals)

For me it is important to safeguard native wildlife and that has to be logistically worked out but I am pretty conflicted about the use of traps that has resulted in such generic results. It is also 'difficult' to reconcile this approach with the oft-stated opposition to all and any traps that RSPB spokesman Chris Packham has voiced. How does the RSPB or CP square that circle I wonder?

 

[ycbm]

And a rant and a legal case against the RSPB by Botham wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that he's a big fan of shooting, would it? And that the timing of the start of his dislike of the RSPB followed the condemnation by the RSPB of management of predator birds by shoots and is entirely coincidental?
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[Peglo]

I agree with you but some of the excerpts that he has used are pretty 'extreme' and the idea of 'baiting' fences for predators, even if withdrawn now, would be seen as totally unacceptable. I know he is ranting too but the RSPB has got itself into a complex web of double standards lately. It actually really troubles me, even though I am passionate about protecting bird life - particuarly our most vulnerable birds. I am totally conflicted for example about the stoat trapping that has killed cats and hedgehogs even though I want to see the protection of ground nesting birds.

From the Herald in January of this year:-

''IT seemed a simple plan and was designed to eradicate an alien predator from an internationally important archipelago for wildlife.

But police are now involved in a £6 million scheme to eradicate stoats from Orkney after a sustained attack by vandals and thieves following other species of animals, including cats, being killed by traps.

The traps that are designed to wipe out the stoat population have inadvertently caught and killed cats as well as hundreds of other animals.
Pet owners are now concerned after the dead cats were found and another was found injured by the traps.

Other wildlife casualties included 242 rabbits, 48 mice, 18 hedgehogs, 10 voles and nine frogs and toads since the scheme launch in 2017, said cull coordinators the Orkney Native Wildlife Project.
Scottish SPCA chief superintendent Mike Flynn said at the time it hoped that planned alterations to the size of the entrance would prevent any further incidents happening.
But Police Scotland has now confirmed that it is investigating a number of incidents involving damage to and the theft of traps.

A spokesman said there had been a number of incidents throughout last year and they are still happening.
The traps were placed at numerous locations throughout Orkney including at Stromness, South Ronaldsay, Deerness and Evie throughout 2020.
In total around 6,500 traps have been laid for the stoat eradication project.
It is the world’s largest clearance programme of the animal and so far more than 780 have been killed.
More than 700 landowners have given permission for the internationally important conservation project.''

(https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19011526.row-stoat-cull-mass-deaths-animals)

For me it is important to safeguard native wildlife and that has to be logistically worked out but I am pretty conflicted about the use of traps that has resulted in such generic results. It is also 'difficult' to reconcile this approach with the oft-stated opposition to all and any traps that RSPB spokesman Chris Packham has voiced. How does the RSPB or CP square that circle I wonder?

i see the traps everywhere. I think up here the only cat that may or may not have been trapped would’ve been a very small kitten. (The rumour mill up here has no likelihood of eradication) There is no way juvenile or adult cat, rabbits or birds can get in those traps. The biggest ill feeling here towards the traps is the money spent to eradicate the stoats and lack of for the goose population (I’m not going to go off on one about the geese)

another concern is the traps are being left for up to months with carcasses in them. I’m not sure why they aren’t being checked often when they have such a budget. They stopped checking them through covid lockdowns too.

I want them gone but I’m not sure why they waited to take action until the problem got so bad. I also don’t like killing because we deem them pests (geese!!!) but this was a safe place for birds with no real predators until the stoats came. As an animal lover I’m very conflicted.

ETA it’s always good to hear your thoughts on things like this Palo1.

 

[skinnydipper]

And a rant and a legal case against the RSPB by Botham wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that he's a big fan of shooting, would it? And that the timing of the start of his dislike of the RSPB followed the condemnation by the RSPB of management of predator birds by shoots and is entirely coincidental?
.

He has already been crossed off my Christmas card list for promoting the use of E collars.

 

[Northern Hare]

At a livery yard I was at, they had a big mouse and rat problem. They used a rat and mouse trap that was essentially a bucket with a ramp up, and then a kind of gang plank with an enticing morsel balanced on a spring loaded trap. The rat or mouse walked along the gang plank and fell into the bucket, which was filled with antifreeze as that apparently had limited surface tension, so it was quickly drowned. Still pretty gruesome, but it worked really well! ?

 

[palo1]

And a rant and a legal case against the RSPB by Botham wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that he's a big fan of shooting, would it? And that the timing of the start of his dislike of the RSPB followed the condemnation by the RSPB of management of predator birds by shoots and is entirely coincidental?
.

Yes, I know. But vested interests are absolutely unavoidable on those particular battlegrounds I fear and the RSPB is on a sticky wicket on several issues.

 

[palo1]

At a livery yard I was at, they had a big mouse and rat problem. They used a rat and mouse trap that was essentially a bucket with a ramp up, and then a kind of gang plank with an enticing morsel balanced on a spring loaded trap. The rat or mouse walked along the gang plank and fell into the bucket, which was filled with antifreeze as that apparently had limited surface tension, so it was quickly drowned. Still pretty gruesome, but it worked really well! ?

I can imagine that was effective but can you imagine the outcry if another animal was killed by drowning in anti-freeze?! It is not a humane death as rats (or anything else drinking it) go into renal failure. Ghastly. I can't like that I am afraid.

 

[Goldenstar]

At a livery yard I was at, they had a big mouse and rat problem. They used a rat and mouse trap that was essentially a bucket with a ramp up, and then a kind of gang plank with an enticing morsel balanced on a spring loaded trap. The rat or mouse walked along the gang plank and fell into the bucket, which was filled with antifreeze as that apparently had limited surface tension, so it was quickly drowned. Still pretty gruesome, but it worked really well! ?

That’s horrible

 

[palo1]

Yes, I know. But vested interests are absolutely unavoidable on those particular battlegrounds I fear and the RSPB is on a sticky wicket on several issues.

ETA - it is incredibly difficult to find any objective research etc around rural management/field sports and I am aware of equally compelling arguments and nuance around the benefits of shooting and not shooting etc.