Upfront livery deposits

[ILuvCowparsely]

How many of you ask for a deposit of one month's livery in case, they up and leave before paying. What terminology do you use to add this in your contracts.

Asking for a friend who is experiencing this and wants a months livery deposit which will be used as their final month's livery.
tia

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I paid a ‘hay deposit‘, either £200 or £250 in case of midnight flits, I suppose. Can they not just call it a month’s deposit, same as you pay when renting?

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I used to take 2 months down pre arrival. The deposit was never used as final months livery, but refunded to client on leaving day, the same way it was paid. Back then was cash or cheque.
Trust works both ways, but non fixed damage and thieving can be still done in the last month.

 

[AmyMay]

I’ve always paid a livery deposit

 

[Cowpony]

I have paid £100 deposit. This was imposed after somebody tried to do a flit with 3 ponies

 

[Bonnie Allie]

We have always charged one months livery as a bond. To be paid along with first months livery 7 days before the horse arrives.

We also have a strict termination clause. Our livery is due monthly in advance on 15th of the month. If it is even 1 minute late, it triggers termination and they get a notice of termination and have until the following 15th of the next month to leave. If they leave prior to this we will refund the balance of the bond less any unpaid expenses or damage.

Not negotiable - not interested in your story as to why it’s late, just leave please.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

deleted

I can see why a lot of Y/O give up with liveries and go back to just them.

 

[bouncing_ball]

We have always charged one months livery as a bond. To be paid along with first months livery 7 days before the horse arrives.

We also have a strict termination clause. Our livery is due monthly in advance on 15th of the month. If it is even 1 minute late, it triggers termination and they get a notice of termination and have until the following 15th of the next month to leave. If they leave prior to this we will refund the balance of the bond less any unpaid expenses or damage.

Not negotiable - not interested in your story as to why it’s late, just leave please.

That’s interesting. I pay monthly by bank transfer (not standing order as it’s not a set amount, small variations). We have until 10th to pay. One month I didn’t do it the transfer in error or I didn’t press final submit button on the transaction. I thought I’d paid it. I got a reminder from yard accountant, and did it immediately and apologised.

Asking me to leave for this as a long standing reliable paying client feels a bit tough. That said if I knew the rules were set out as at your yard, I’d know to check my account to confirm payment had been sent and set up a series of reminders and checking reminders!

 

[Bonnie Allie]

That’s interesting. I pay monthly by bank transfer (not standing order as it’s not a set amount, small variations). We have until 10th to pay. One month I didn’t do it the transfer in error or I didn’t press final submit button on the transaction. I thought I’d paid it. I got a reminder from yard accountant, and did it immediately and apologised.

Asking me to leave for this as a long standing reliable paying client feels a bit tough. That said if I knew the rules were set out as at your yard, I’d know to check my account to confirm payment had been sent and set up a series of reminders and checking reminders!

Bouncing Ball - if you were a long standing client who had always paid, we would do exactly what happened in your situation. I do recommend to our clients have a DD setup and we do overs separately if required.

It’s mainly to fire a shot across the bow of chancers and BS artists, as I can’t be bothered with the hassle. Asking for 1 month bond + 1 month in advance, knocks a lot of the clowns out.

 

[Red-1]

I have never been asked to pay a bond, however my first livery yard wanted the basic fee upfront, until the 1st of the month. The next bill was then due on the 1st of the month, with whatever extras added from the month before.

Each month was due on the 1st, being the extras from last month, with the livery fee for next month.

There were a couple of bad payers, they paid weekly, same arrangement tho, upfront livery, back dated extras (such as fetching in, hay etc). If you were skint, you could also have this weekly arrangement.

That seemed to be a fair balance, as the people who went into arrears tended to be the ones who wouldn't have been able to afford 1 month's worth of bond plus one month up front.

Over the years there were a couple of flits, but with this system it wasn't for huge amounts of money.

Some of the nicest liveries, with the best of care for the horses, also were the ones with no money. I remember mum donating a duvet to one livery, she was exhausted for being cold in winter, no money for heating and her blankets were on her horse as it was harsh weather. Next thing we knew, the duvet was also on the horse!

 

[ycbm]

These ones have really been unfair and done the poo on her.

all keen to come, horse arrives, contract and livery given inc keys. Then y/o asked for livery money, told contract signed will bring it up, not done or money transferred. One minor mistake by yard owner who forgot to remove the holding deposit off the bill (only £ 50). y/o apologised and mediately redid bill. Now feebly excuse offered a job elsewhere Now y/o told by livery that because there was a discrepancy in the bill, they even tho arrived at yard last week, they were leaving today, not signed the contract so y/o cannot hold them to anything, still not paid bill, still not given deposit for yard keys.

I can see why a lot of Y/O give up with liveries and go back to just them. Really gives a nasty feeling how some people can be really mean when they from day dot, delayed signing contract so they get away with dumping this on poor Y/O.

I'm pretty sure she can still sue them through the small claims court even though they have not signed the contract. They accepted the terms by moving the horse there.
.

 

[Rowreach]

I'm pretty sure she can still sue them through the small claims court even though they have not signed the contract. They accepted the terms by moving the horse there.
.

It's honestly easier with ones like this to get shot, draw a line under it, learn from it and reword your contract to stop it happening again. I had a couple of piss takers over the years (and plenty of lovely ones), and occasionally had to add or change a clause.

One of my liveries was a very wealthy banker, who failed to pay on time every single month, so I added in a late payment surcharge (a big one), gave them plenty of notice, and duly surcharged him when yet again he was late. He was furious, told me he was sure that all my other liveries would object, so I said nope they're not one bit bothered because they all pay on time. He was never late again.

OP the other thing I recommend is that your friend quietly spreads the word about this person around the YO community. There's nothing more effective in the world of livery owners.

 

[Shilasdair]

The issue with asking for a deposit is that it can make you uncompetitive in an area where there are lots of livery yards...

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I run a small (very small!) DIY yard, have been doing it for over 25 yrs now - and haven't ever asked for a deposit.

Should have I know, but just haven't.

One livery left after her horses thoroughly destroying one of my post-and-rail fences - and I got diddly-squat from them for the repair of it. Hubby was a builder too, and it would have been easy for the repair to have been done.

You live and learn.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

It's honestly easier with ones like this to get shot, draw a line under it, learn from it and reword your contract to stop it happening again. I had a couple of piss takers over the years (and plenty of lovely ones), and occasionally had to add or change a clause.

One of my liveries was a very wealthy banker, who failed to pay on time every single month, so I added in a late payment surcharge (a big one), gave them plenty of notice, and duly surcharged him when yet again he was late. He was furious, told me he was sure that all my other liveries would object, so I said nope they're not one bit bothered because they all pay on time. He was never late again.

OP the other thing I recommend is that your friend quietly spreads the word about this person around the YO community. There's nothing more effective in the world of livery owners.

True Rowreach. The issue is/was they never signed the Y/O contract - despite being asked to return it on numerous occasions. As you say a lesson to learn and I think the Y?M is going to insist now that paperwork is filled and signed before the horse moves in.

 

[ihatework]

I’ve only ever been on one yard that wanted a months deposit. They also took livery in advance. So moving in costs were quite high.

Bloody sensible if you ask me, ad is what I would do if I were ever insane enough to run a yard.

The remainder of places have just been pay in arrears. A couple have been paying upfront.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

What we do is livery upfront for a month and extras go on the following month.

So sad the horse world where there are so many people like this , they are like flitters, move around upsetting a yard or people and moving on. In my younger days you would stick at the yard and very rarely saw these time wasters.

 

[Rowreach]

My claim to fame is being written about in a H&H article (not named obviously) about terrible YOs.

The livery was a serial flitter with a destructive horse who caused no end of trouble and trashed my fencing on a daily basis, and the owner was a total pita ?? but apparently I was the unreasonable one when I gave her (plenty of) notice …

ets she never paid for any of the damage or helped to repair it

 

[honetpot]

What we do is livery upfront for a month and extras go on the following month.

So sad the horse world where there are so many people like this , they are like flitters, move around upsetting a yard or people and moving on. In my younger days you would stick at the yard and very rarely saw these time wasters.

In thirty odd years of being at DIY livery, I have been on five livery yards, usually only moving because we moved out of the area, and the last time because a friend set up her own yard. I think people just want more, but nothing is ever going to be absolutely perfect so, they move to the next.
I did the contract and deposit in place, but they ran up a hay bill, and then refused to move out, so never again.

 

[milliepops]

i've always paid a month upfront for the basics but not extra on top as a deposit. so each month you pay the livery for the month ahead plus any services for the month just ended.

I'm on pure DIY now and pay by standing order a month ahead.

currently got 3 at the yard, I'd be put off by having to fork out a month deposit as well (plus having been on the receiving end of slightly random YOs i would not believe i'd get it back...)

 

[criso]

All my yards except current have asked for a month's deposit to be returned when I left. On some stable rent went to a separate person to services and in that case it was only stable rent, where the part livery was billed as a package, it was the full amount.

When I left, I negotiated using the deposit towards the final month. I didn't assume but asked and as I'd always paid on time, they said ok

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

All the yards I’ve been on you pay a months livery in advance but I’ve only been on one that asked for a months livery as a deposit as well. It was over a thousand pounds which was a bit eye-watering at the time. The yard owner kept my friends deposit when she left as she was injured by her horse although it was accidental and really her own fault as she was forcefully trying to pick mud fever scabs off and the horse just tried to get away and as it was confined by a fence one side it tried to jump over her and knocked her over. It was a wholly inappropriate use under the terms of the deposit but my friend was just glad to leave a number of months after the accident as she kept trying to persuade her to pts her horse and treated him with contempt. Nobody stayed on that yard long as she was a liar, had her cronies and didn’t do what you paid her for. I got all my deposit back though.

 

[teddy_]

I do know of one yard locally that request a deposit in addition to the monthly livery in advance.

I wouldn't go as far to say it is standard practice, though.

 

[chocolategirl]

How many of you ask for a deposit of one month's livery in case, they up and leave before paying. What terminology do you use to add this in your contracts.

Asking for a friend who is experiencing this and wants a months livery deposit which will be used as their final month's livery.
tia

I’ve never asked for a deposit, but I can see why other yards do. Our livery is payable in advance from the first day of arrival. Most clients pay by DD anyway so it’s not really an issue. Hay etc is all paid in arrears on receipt of the bill, it always amazes how many people think it’s acceptable to leave this for sometimes up to 3 weeks before making payment though. I only turn a blind eye to peoples tardiness in this area as fortunately I’m not reliant on the money, but if I was, I’d have to be A LOT tougher? I see those same people handing money over to their farrier or trainer on the dot, but for some unfathomable reason, I’m expected to wait for my debt to be paid?‍ In fairness, I’ve been quite lucky over the years on the debt front, I’ve only had a handful of bad payers?

 

[Greylegs]

I haven't paid a deposit on my current yard, but did on the previous one, and got it back, in full, when I left, so fair enough. I currently pay a month in advance on the anniversary date of my arrival and any extras (shavings etc) in arrears with that payment. YO isn't fussed about notice periods and people have left with as little as a day's notice with no ill feeling.

 

[nagblagger]

I have never paid a deposit, but always a month in advance. When I rent a field i always ask how the landowner wants to be paid, one likes cash every 4 weeks, one is same amount by DD monthly and the other, which is mainly summer grazing for 3 horses, by DD £x per horse monthly. Surely it is common courtesy to do this, isn't it?
I have been at my 'main' yard/field for over 21 years (before that only left as the landowner was giving up).

I got taught, growing up, you never get into debt with the landowner or the vet. People that don't pay are so disrespectful, I don't understand them.

 

[splashgirl45]

ive always paid one month in advance and when leaving the last month was free and that meant i could leave a bit before the end of the month if i wanted to..and yard owners were always ok with that..

 

[chaps89]

I have a sort of retirement livery with me, I took a deposit as well as first month upfront - I don’t make any money on the services so the livery goes straight to the YO, the deposit is a safety net so I can pay her should future livery money not be forthcoming.
I take a small amount on top of livery as a safety net should I be left with the pony to cover a foot trim and some feed as necessary.
Neither lady whose pony I’ve had has minded this and totally understood - I suspect it helps that the livery is so cheap that even paying the deposit and a month upfront it’s still cheaper than most other yards!
They then pay for any extras like hay, bedding etc in arrears at the end of the month once I know what we used.
When the last lady left I took what she owed from the deposit and returned the difference on the day she left, with her agreement.

I can see a full months charge at a lot of places would be unaffordable for some people but I am surprised yard owners don’t take *something* more often!