Urgent help please - also in Vets (Long - sorry)

Box_Of_Frogs

Box_Of_Frogs

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I'm posting on behalf of Llwyncwn's rescued Section A-type pony. Bonnie is a poppet and usually as tough as old boots but a horrifying incident happened today. Llwyncwn is probably sitting up all night with Bonnie as I type this.

The dentist came today to see Bonnie for a routine check up. As a rescued pony, Bonnie is very nervous of strangers but has seen the dentist regularly before and, apart from light sedation a couple of years ago to have some electric rasping done, has been ok. The dentist is a true professional and has a calm and reassuring way about him, so is above reproach.

Llwyncwn was up to her ears in work so the dentist - who was to see loads of horses there today - quietly got on with his work. Horrifyingly, Bonnie lost the plot completely and was so terrified that she thrashed about and eventually reared and lashed out with her front feet. She has never ever done this before. At one point, she cracked her head, with the gag fitted, against the brick wall of her stable. The dentist wisely stopped at that point and rang down to advise Llwyncwn what had happened. She went straight up and although Bonnie was a little wild eyed, she saw nothing amiss.

A couple of hours later, Llwyncwn went up to Bonnie and her other horses to turn them out for the night. Bonnie was having some sort of a fit, a little like a petit mal epilepsy fit. The side of her head was covered in shavings but that was the only part of her body that was. Bonnie NEVER lies down in the stable. She was standing up with her eyes as wide as a terrified deer. She was trembling all over with tics and twitches in almost every muscle in her body. Even her mouth, tail and (when the vet took her temperature) her rectum and vagina were in spasm. Her temperature and pulse were normal. All the tics and twitches were uncoordinated, ie not all twitching in sync but a generalised and random twitching of her whole body. The only way I can best describe it is Bonnie looked as if she had just been rescued from being stuck in a half frozen lake for hours and was suffering shock and hypothermia.

The vet came immediately - the twitches were getting worse. A few times, Bonnie took some strange steps and we all thought she was going to collapse. It is possible that Bonnie was in severe shock after the dentist and half fell, twisting her neck and causing some sort of spinal cord damage. The vet also thinks she may have had a fit brought on by stress. The vet gave Bonnie a low dose of diazepam to see if gentle sedation would settle her but it made no difference. Shockingly, the vet said that she would like to administer a low dose steroid as if Bonnie had been having a fit or had hit her head hard and had a bleed in the brain, it would stop the swelling. The vet said she had only seen this once before in a newborn foal that turned out to have meningitits. She has seen something similar in lactating mares who go into calcium shock, but Bonnie is in her 20s and is most definitely not nursing. If she deteriorates further, the vet is going to administer a calcium drip just in case because there isn't much else that can be done.

I spoke to Llwyncwn at about 8pm and Bonnie had settled a little so that could have been the steroid injection, or the diazepam or who knows what. It remains touch and go but I'm hoping Bonnie will rally overnight.

Please, please, has anyone ever heard of this before? Or experienced it with their horse? If so, what helped, if anything and what was the outcome?
 
Sound awful! Can't offer any advise sorry but I will keep my fingers crossed that Bonnie pulls through!
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No idea in horses but in humans an epileptic fit wouldn't last that long. It sounds more like when she banged her head she has damaged a nerve/spine combined with shock/stress. Poor little pony - hope she is better in the morning.

Hugs to everyone and to Bonnie
 
I am sorry to hear this, poor bonnnie.

Im not a vet but I have seen horses thrash unespectedly with the gag on so would imagine that when she hit her head it would have been quite a thump. The diazepam is a muscle relaxant (sometimes given during dentistry to stop the tongue moving about) so that would have helped the spasms but I know can make them wobbly.
I assume there is some swelling in her brain and I hope that she gets better soon
 
My horse has epilepsy, and had a range of grand and petit mal seizures over the years, the last being around six years ago. She has never lost consciousness or hit the ground, but it was always associated with her hitting her head in a stable, either as a result or pre-cursor to the seizure, which resulted in several head wounds, often requiring stitching. Initial treatment with Diazepam is common, and my horse had a few years on low dose steroids, along with Carbamazepine, a drug also used in humans (I work in a hospital). It has not always been easy with her, but she lives out now with a companion (also my horse) who looks after her, and all her routine management, ie teeth rasping, foot trimming, vaccinations etc, are done in the field.

I hope the pony gets better, and please, if you or the owner want any further help, please don't hesitate to PM me.
 
I have read all your post but am unsure if Bonnie was given a calmer/sedation before the dentist?

Just wondering as I have a little experience of the effects of calmers when they don't work.
 
Thanks everyone for your vibes. Bonnie has stopped the tremors and apart from her looking a little spaced out in the eyes (probably results of the diazapam), she has eaten her breakfast and is pretty much back to her normal self.

I am concerned about the steroid injection she had last night. Vet said that if she went down with laminitis, it would be within the next couple of days. Do I turn her out on a small electric fenced 'fat paddock', walk her gently in hand or could walking induce laminitis through concussion, or should I keep her stabled ?

scotlass - your post is very interesting. Vet didnt mention Carbamazepine but I will ask her today.

She definitely didnt have any sedation from EDT.

Huge thanks to Box_of_Frogs for her shoulder and support.

In all my years I have never seen anything like this and TBH it scared the life out of me. My equine vet was wonderful and has vast experience, but was scratching her head a little, so any vets out there or owners with similar experiences, please pass on any suggestions/ideas you may have.

Hx
 
Not seen the fits but did have a TB knock himself out after spooking and slipping on the road, landing hard and banging his head.
He behaved exactly like a person with concussion, he was very very weird for about 24-36 hours, and then absolutely fine. (or as absolutely fine as he ever was) - good luck with your pony, I hope she recovers. The thing with concussion is rest and time, frustratingly, there's not much else you can do.
 
Never heard of this before and glad to hear that Bonnie is feeling better this morning.

What did the vet suggest for today, I would think a real quiet day would be good, maybe leave her in and pick her some grass to eat in the box.

Hope she continues to improve.
 
Just thinking that if it is concussion, in would be good as light can aggravate the headache - people lie in a darkened room, and after a while can have clear fluids and a slice or two of toast - so shady stable and bran mash might be the equivalent?
 
So pleased she is more like herself - sounds like its concussion rather than epilepsy - an epileptic fit of any type wouldn't be so prolonged. The steroid will have helped reduce any inflammation of the CNS which was probably causing the shaking etc following bashing her head.

As she has had the injection and with your concern (rightly) about lami as well the concussion/trauma - I would personally keep her in for 48 hours, keeping her quiet and monitoring her food, drink etc and then when she goes out put her on restricted grazing for the next week or so until the side effects of the steroid has passed.

Hope she carries on improving - hugs to you both.
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Thanks slinky x Just been to check her again and the muscle between her backbone and loins has started to spasm again, which is where it started lastnight before it got much worse. She has also started squitting which I think is a result of the steroid injection so need to get a tube of Coligone in her asap. Equine vets are atm getting all their heads together to discuss and will ring me back shortly.

Poor Bons
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This sounds very scary- i cant say what it is sorry. but I hope it all gets sorted out and you and pony dont have to go through too much more of this . xx
 
Thank you for your replies, it helps to know that people care
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I had to call out the vets this morning as Bonnie's body had gone into complete spasm again. I gave her a full syringe of Coligone liquid to neutralise the acidosis in her gut and by the time both my equine vets arrived she was begining to get better. They are talking about putting her on low dose Prednisolone, but just monitor at present. They say that without a doubt it is neurological and to the head. Its rather odd though, she is still eating occasionally even when her body is in spasm, almost as if she isnt aware of it
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Its definitely not wobblers/herpes/magnesium deficiency. They have taken bloods and are going straight back to clinic to have a look at them. Temperature normal, pulse normal.

They are scratching their heads - someone out there must have some experience of this and can help? Three years ago she came to me with only hours to live with her little foal (Magic) at foot. Then, when Magic was just aged 11 months we lost him to a snake bite (some may remember the long thread) after a week in the clinic and 3 flushes.

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I wonder if it is swelling/bruising from hitting herself putting pressure on a nerve. From the sound of it she sounds like she has improved and it is less extreme than yesterday. The prednisolone will help to keep the swelling down which will in turn reduce the fits/spasms (if that is what it is) - they give streroids to humans that have head/CNS trauma for the same reason - it also helps promote healing. As you know any prolonged use of steroids is linked to weight gain and significantly increase her risk of lami - so I would put her on a 'lami' diet immediatley and maintain it for at least a week or two after she is off the steroids. Soak her hay and the all the usual no molasses, hi fibre feeds etc.

Sometimes these things just need peace and quiet to resolve themselves - especially if its connected to bruising. I would also get some arnica into her as she must have soft tissue bruising from hitting herself so hard - it won't do any harm and won't interact with anything she has been given.

Fingers,paws and hooves crossed for you and Bonnie.
 
OK, not a horse, but something similar happened to a goat of ours, and the remedy (absolutely unbelieveable, full recovery, she was almost comatose, blind, etc etc) was mega dose Vitamin B - not sure if one particular vit B but can ask husband when he gets in.
In her case, the vet muttered about meningitis, but she had been in a bit of a barny, and banged her head hard enough to damage a slight horn regrowth, so we were convinced it was trauma.
We started off by giving her high dose vit C which our landlord has for his cows (he is organic/homeopathic etc) which he has to import from Australia, but then a specialist goat vet mentioned B (again, can't remember if it was just B or B12 or something) and our only option was to buy the human kind, in capsules, break them up, and get them into her. Her recover was slow but steady and she is now perfectly alright, and in kid, which no one who saw her at her worst can actually believe.
If you like, I'll text him and ask him which B vit. it was - as far as I know, in humans and goats at least, you can't really OD on a water soluble vitamin, so it can't do any harm, but I'll await correction by an equine vet on that one.
 
A couple of my colleagues dealt with a very sad case of a young foal that had apparently run head first into a wall. Owner found it collapsed at the base of the wall, with hair and blood present on the stones at head height. Sadly despite treatment this baby didn't make it. On the flip side I have seen many dogs recover quite spectacularly from strokes.

With head injuries in animals I'm afraid there is little you can do other than offer supportive treatment and hope that time and nature are on your side and that the damage can heal. Most vets would probably choose steroids as these are a much more powerful anti inflammatory than bute or finadyne. Yes there is a small risk of causing laminitis but I think this risk is overestimated since the case of that very high profile dressage horse. In these situations you have to balance the risks of giving steroids against the benefit to the horse, and I would say in this case the benefit is worth the risk.

Best of luck and vibes, hopefully if she is still able to stand plenty of TLC for a few days will hopefully help her to get over it. I'm not sure how much any of the anti epilepsy drugs are effective against seizures resulting from head trauma.

Best wishes and keep is updated with her progress.
 
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