vaccinations -interesting reading

No my dogs get 2 years as a puppy and that is it.

I don't worm
I don't flea treat.
None of my dogs have worms or fleas.

I believe that poor diet and overloading their systems with chemicals are the cause of many many illnesses an disease's in dogs.
 
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Think I might go same way . Sounds logical .Do you use wormer and flea prevention or is there something kinder on their stomaches.
Weaning my dog of puppy food as well he is having cooked food at moment but have sourced two good butchers that do very reasonable pet food .Will stock up on monday for final switch over.
What would you recommend for puppy training classes to feed as tit bits ,I had made my own from cooked meats and egg with flour not sure if this willl mess up the raw diet.Not walking round with raw liver in my pocket :eek::D
 
I give garlic for fleas and nothing for a wormer. They get yearly fecal tests at the vets (like a worm count)

For training treats i make liver cake or i use cooked chicken.
 
katielou said:
No my dogs get 2 years as a puppy and that is it.

I don't worm
I don't flea treat.
None of my dogs have worms or fleas.

I believe that poor diet and overloading their systems with chemicals are the cause of many many illnesses an disease's in dogs.
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Completely agree with your comments but!!!

When I told my butcher about feeding raw he said it could give Axel worms:confused:
 
katielou said:
I give garlic for fleas and nothing for a wormer. They get yearly fecal tests at the vets (like a worm count)

For training treats i make liver cake or i use cooked chicken.
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Great thanks for info things have progressed so much since I had my last dog.I can probably get fecal tests done at same lab as my horse I dont pump her full of chemicals either.
Raw garlic or dried and how much sorry for all questions
 
I get garlic capsules from a health food store cause they are cheap and more concentrate than actual garlic.
Mine get one a day and they eat it just like a sweet.
 
Cheers.I lost my golden retriever to cancer aged 11 and im now starting to wonder how much of his illness could have been avoided with right diet.It might have helped his immune system.
Anything I can do to improve Axels well being is a bonus.
 
Toffee44 said:
If youve been eating his meat too then I would as him if you need to see your GP for human worm test!
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Hes actually really good butcher ;) thinks its just the old fashioned way of thinking with animals.If worms help me lose weight then im all for them lol
 
Ktaielu Isn't garlic a natural antibiotic? I know there is a train of thought that it's not a good idea to feed it to horses as it can effect the gut flora. i haven't looked to see if there is any scientific evidance for this but it makes you think.
I only treat for fleas when I see they have them, but do worm about twice a year.
 
Garlic if given in large amounts can cause issues with dogs but it really has to be large amounts think 10 or so heads of garlic.

Flea's lay eggs in places they like, that are hospitable and on unhealthy dogs with low immune systems.

Garlic makes the dog taste horrible. Fleas will not lay eggs somewhere that there is no good food source.

So keeping your dogs healthy and feeding garlic to make your dog inhospitable to fleas works!
 
Have only ever vaccinated when they need it I will titre test for antibodies and avoid multiple and over vaccinations for the dogs and my horses too. But be prepared vets like with raw feeding can be very anti not vaccinating!!

Vaccinosis can be quite serious and a multiple insult to the immune system when it could be fighting off something else can be life threatening so I wont take that chance. The trouble is like dog food giants the drug companies are ultimately out for profit so will not always tell you if your dog does not need something!!

My sister has completed studies on her dogs re vaccinations using titre testing and found natural immunity occuring in fit healthy raw fed dogs.

My dogs also on raw have not had worms since going raw (worm count) a couple of my of my sisters are 3rd generation raw and no worms since their grandmother was changed to raw!!

Human quality meat properly inspected at the point of kill by a vet should never have Axel worms or any other for that matter, which is why most raw feeders source human grade food and not pet food, so that is another urban myth used against feeding raw.

I don't think fleas like raw fed dogs, I think they perfer the sugar rich blood of dogs fed dry food. Have not had to treat mine for fleas for years. If I do I use natural treatments.
 
KarynK said:
I don't think fleas like raw fed dogs, I think they perfer the sugar rich blood of dogs fed dry food. Have not had to treat mine for fleas for years. If I do I use natural treatments.
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Me either. Mine play with dogs at group who you can see flea's on. They play with deer and have never had flea's!
 
I wanted to add that i started feeding garlic on advice from my homeopathic vet to help with artery flexibility in an older dog. Then i found out about all its other benefits and started feeding to all my dogs many years ago.
 
I vaccinate, worm and flea treat everyone regularly. We have rabbies here, so not vaccinating for that is not only illegal but terribly dangerous for both humans and animals. Also, we have A LOT of ticks which carry piro, a life threatening condition so we need to stay really on top of ticks/fleas. Finally, the dogs find a lot of carrion which they inevitably eat so worming also seems necessary.

Personally I am a bit weary of websites which quote out of context nuggets of information. It's very easy to misunderstand or misrepresent a quote, and even if correctly quoted, anyone can post pretty much anything they want on the internet and almost anything they want on a third rate journal. I prefer to search Google scholar and get an overview of scientific opinion as well as metastudies of all studies on a specific topic, all of which currently points towards vaccination, not least of all to achieve herd immunity (public health issues like herd immunity are often by-passed by studies that look at immunity in really, really small numbers of individuals).
 
katielou said:
Me either. Mine play with dogs at group who you can see flea's on. They play with deer and have never had flea's!
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Have noticed the same in the local park which is full of dogs with fleas, but the fleas seem to take one bite of mine and catch the next dog home!!!

It would be interesting to look at the worm counts of raw fed dogs (diets including plenty of bone that is), as certainly mine and my sisters have all had zero counts for years since going raw, I do do pumpkin seeds in their small veg meal as well but it would appear that worms have little impact on a fit healthy digestive system on a natural diet, perhaps it's similar to the fleas, anything for an easy life!!
 
Have always done it through the vets but I suppose any Lab would be able to do it, might be worth contacting someone like Westgate and asking?
 
KarynK said:
Have noticed the same in the local park which is full of dogs with fleas, but the fleas seem to take one bite of mine and catch the next dog home!!!

It would be interesting to look at the worm counts of raw fed dogs (diets including plenty of bone that is), as certainly mine and my sisters have all had zero counts for years since going raw, I do do pumpkin seeds in their small veg meal as well but it would appear that worms have little impact on a fit healthy digestive system on a natural diet, perhaps it's similar to the fleas, anything for an easy life!!
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Yep mine have had zero counts for years to. Also been asking friends that raw feed and they all say that they haven't seen flea's or worms in their dogs since they started feeding.
One said her dog had a chronic problem with them before she started feeding raw and now not a trace.
 
After puppy jabs my dogs don't get vaccs or flea treatments. Have never had a cat jabbed or a rabbit, guineapig or goldfish.:rolleyes: Have never had an animal ill or flea ridden. They are all in fine health, shiny coats, bright eyes, good teeth and healthy looking stools.
 
Booboos said:
I vaccinate, worm and flea treat everyone regularly. We have rabbies here, so not vaccinating for that is not only illegal but terribly dangerous for both humans and animals.
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See this is the same here we have rabies and they advise every 3 years a vaccine.
My dogs had 1 rabies vaccine and have a titre test every year. They are just as immune as those who get the rabies every year.
 
Interesting reading, I was told many years ago by a vet, that after the first vacinations, boosters were not needed as they didn't work! and I have never bothered with boosters since,
 
Booboos said:
I prefer to search Google scholar and get an overview of scientific opinion as well as metastudies of all studies on a specific topic, all of which currently points towards vaccination, not least of all to achieve herd immunity (public health issues like herd immunity are often by-passed by studies that look at immunity in really, really small numbers of individuals).
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No one is saying that vaccinations are not valuable in the fight against disease, that much has been proven, what many of us resent is what is not being told.

It is very well looking at professional scolar studies but what you have to remember is that many of these studies are handicapped. Because they are big and time consuming they are also costly. Most of them are sponsored, who by? usually those with a vested interest in their outcome, so in order to get your funding you have pitch your research aims to something that will get the attention of the all powerful, who definately do not want to hear you say well you only need two vaccinations for that in a lifetime, or Lepto only lasts for 3-6 months so whats the pint in having it in a yearly multivac????

Nor will you find out that in some vaccines especially some multivacs there are some pretty strong preservatives that can cause severe reactions without the "underground movement"

So whilst all the official big studies point to yearly vaccination, for some time in the US many veterinarians recommend Puppy series plus one annual booster for life and have done for some years.

Just like dog food it's a lucrative business not adverse to protecting itself and it's secrets. All these vaccines are available in single does but you try and get them! Also it is becomeing harder and increasingly more expensive to titre test, because data from that could back up the claims from the meer mortals.

I suspect that like humans tet in horses after a few doses can last a lifetime and that natural immunity exists, can I prove that? Can I hell because you cannot test for Tet antibodies anywhere in the UK! It was begrudgingly announced that you only need it every 2 years but many vets are still sticking horses with multivac flu and tet every year!

I titre tested one year with a vet in may ear saying, "you might as well vaccinate as titre test, I don't know why you're doing this I have the vaccine here" and more white noise, she shut right up when the results arrived, one just out of rescue kennel was off the scale for Parvo, had I given him a multivac when his immune system was getting stuck into a serious assault I might have killed him!!

Like Katielou has found many dogs have immunity after just a few jabs but that is not general knowledge, and you will not find it in any major peer review studies any time soon I think so it is always best to keep an open mind and not get too hung up on google scholar unless you have an argument to win!!!!
 
My horses and dogs are vacinated yearly- the horses have to be for the big shows- no up to date vaccine= not allowed to compete. The dog gets done at the same time- our local farmer's daughter is a vet and she charges us cost price for all vet stuff so it barely costs me to get them done. The horses are also wormed 4 times a year- livery yards are big spreaders of worms, Tassy has been done twice over the last year not seen worms only seen a flea once and it was really slow so not sure if it was hers or just happened to take a ride. Im pretty sure my insurance states vaccinations have to be done?
 
Insurance companies accept titre tests as proof of cover, that process is how vaccines are proven effective and licensed for use. Some insurance companies will even accept the use of homoeopathic nosodes. Providing an animal shows titres within the specification for the vaccine it is considered covered and should have exactly the same status as an animal that is regularly vaccinated.

I have big issues over compulsory vaccination for horse flu since the vaccine does not stop an individual catching the flu and conveniently you cannot titre test for antibodies!
Years ago I told my insurance company I would sue them if they forced me to vaccinate an adequately covered dog and it suffered vaccinosis, they quickly agreed the titres were sufficient!

BTW, you are very lucky to get what you do at cost price.
 
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