vaccinations -interesting reading

katielou said:
See this is the same here we have rabies and they advise every 3 years a vaccine.
My dogs had 1 rabies vaccine and have a titre test every year. They are just as immune as those who get the rabies every year.
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I was told that the rabbies vaccine commonly used in the UK lasts for 3 years, while the one used in France only for one. I don't know for sure whether this is true but we need to keep the vaccinations up to the precise date mentioned in the passports otherwise the dogs/cat cannot re-enter the UK.
 
KarynK said:
No one is saying that vaccinations are not valuable in the fight against disease, that much has been proven, what many of us resent is what is not being told.

It is very well looking at professional scolar studies but what you have to remember is that many of these studies are handicapped. Because they are big and time consuming they are also costly. Most of them are sponsored, who by? usually those with a vested interest in their outcome, so in order to get your funding you have pitch your research aims to something that will get the attention of the all powerful, who definately do not want to hear you say well you only need two vaccinations for that in a lifetime, or Lepto only lasts for 3-6 months so whats the pint in having it in a yearly multivac????

Nor will you find out that in some vaccines especially some multivacs there are some pretty strong preservatives that can cause severe reactions without the "underground movement"

So whilst all the official big studies point to yearly vaccination, for some time in the US many veterinarians recommend Puppy series plus one annual booster for life and have done for some years.

Just like dog food it's a lucrative business not adverse to protecting itself and it's secrets. All these vaccines are available in single does but you try and get them! Also it is becomeing harder and increasingly more expensive to titre test, because data from that could back up the claims from the meer mortals.

I suspect that like humans tet in horses after a few doses can last a lifetime and that natural immunity exists, can I prove that? Can I hell because you cannot test for Tet antibodies anywhere in the UK! It was begrudgingly announced that you only need it every 2 years but many vets are still sticking horses with multivac flu and tet every year!

I titre tested one year with a vet in may ear saying, "you might as well vaccinate as titre test, I don't know why you're doing this I have the vaccine here" and more white noise, she shut right up when the results arrived, one just out of rescue kennel was off the scale for Parvo, had I given him a multivac when his immune system was getting stuck into a serious assault I might have killed him!!

Like Katielou has found many dogs have immunity after just a few jabs but that is not general knowledge, and you will not find it in any major peer review studies any time soon I think so it is always best to keep an open mind and not get too hung up on google scholar unless you have an argument to win!!!!
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While I entirely agree with you that large studies may be biased and difficult to conduct, making decisions on anecdotal evidence is even more biased and problematic in terms of drawing wider generalisations. I am a researcher myself, who works by developing persuasive arguments so being 'hang up' on evidence presented in a peer-reviewed manner is kind of part and parcel of the job! I quite like good arguments as well, as they bring us a step closer to the truth! Finally, I don't see a virtue in keeping an open mind for propositions that have no evidentiary support (not that this vaccination issue is one of them, but as a general point), that's not open mindedness, it's just irrational thinking!
 
Booboos said:
While I entirely agree with you that large studies may be biased and difficult to conduct, making decisions on anecdotal evidence...
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As you can see above much of this is not actually anecdotal, the same process is used to test our dogs as is used to test the vaccine in the first place. I still have my records, my sister published her small study and still has all her titre results, Katie no doubt still has hers, so we are speaking from experience and putting forward some evidence to support a growing theory, but will research be done into this? Highly unlikely as it will show no profit and likely result in a savings for the public.

Just because the establishment says something is correct doesn't mean to say it actually is and if you do not challenge it even at a very small level, then change will never happen. The challenge has to start somewhere and not everyone has the way or means to take it through a research program unaided. If by simply posting an unresearched challenge to the established thinking it causes that establishment to double check then something has been achieved. I myself would be in a wheelchair right now if I had not challenged the establishment and sought alternatives that had not at that time been "researched". I am sure there are lots of people on this forum who have similar "tales".

Had I listened to the "official line" and not challenged the studies of the time my dogs would still be eating stuff from a sack and not enjoying a natural diet and all the benefits that brings them. Funnily enough that idea came from a veterinarian who was the called "controversial" by the establishment who largely dismiss his small studies!! But will those benefits he told us all about be scientifically proven any time soon? I don't think so, not while those sacks are still selling like wildfire even from vets surgeries!

Yes some of what is on the internet is utter rubbish, but to dismiss an idea from the average person with hands on experience because there is not the means to fully scientifically test it or because it comes from outside the scientific circle it is a little short sighted in my humble opinion and if the established way of thinking does not stand up to some challenges then it does not deserve its pedestal status.
 
KarynK said:
Yes some of what is on the internet is utter rubbish, but to dismiss an idea from the average person with hands on experience because there is not the means to fully scientifically test it or because it comes from outside the scientific circle it is a little short sighted in my humble opinion and if the established way of thinking does not stand up to some challenges then it does not deserve its pedestal status.
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I don't want to start an argument, but to be honest I feel that if anyone dismissed anything it was more you dismissing what I said rather than the other way round.

I also find your claim that scientific theories are only challenged by obscure individuals who have no way of publicising or confirming their ideas to be naive. Science and research thrive on argument, conflict, verification and falsification and this is the purpose of millions of scientists in universities, research institutes and the private sector.

Just to clarify, exceptionally small scale results obtained with no particular protocol, control group or publication of results are exactly what I would call anecdotal.
 
if you go here

http://gooddogschool.webs.com/downloadsandarticles.htm

you can download the vaccination guidelines from the WSAVA, basically it says you don't need to vaccinate after the first annual booster. But I would suggest that you check with your insurance company, because if they insist on vaccines and your dog does contract an illness they may refuse to pay out.

I would be wary of feeding garlic to dogs as it's a member of the allium family and can be poisionous, I'm not sure of the cumilative effect.
 
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I woudl just like to say, that whilst I do agree with some of the information on here, disagree with other bits (and the way its put), and have no idea about some of the information-please please don't do anything regarding your dogs health on the say so of a confident sounding forum post.
I could say, I always worm my dogs as otherwise they get worms (as an example) and sound very confident and in charge about it and you might think, oh there's a good idea.
Go and discuss it with your vet, that's what they're there for. If they don't give you a satisfactory anser, seek a second opinion of a qualified person. If you are still unhappy, take a step back and wonder why, are you just looking for faults?
If you are still unhappy go and look up the research, if there is no research contact the vaccine/wormer companies to discus with them, they will push their product but if you've got this far you should be able to sort the crap from the truth, they should have data on their product.
I vaccinate every year, all of mine. I have had one die of old age, a good age for her breed, and one of cancer, my suspicious are that it came about from an injury that had to be treated. The rest are not including breed health issues for one, very very healthy and hearty.
And if advising not to worm, please include (I know it was included later on) that you do fecal test as oppose to not worm.
I would be interested to see evidence garlic work-I don't deflea unless the cats come in with them as happens every couple of years, the dogs don't seem to get them..(And they're fed nasty commercial dog food too :P)
I'll leave my thought on homeopathy to the imagination.....

(disclaimer-not pointing at anyone-just the content of posts and not trying to point score etc. so please don't do it back!)
 
I kind of agree with SusieT here, some good points of view from both sides in this thread, but the person to discuss all this with is your vet. It surprises me that a lot of people (not just on this thread but on HHO generally) don't seem to have a lot of confidence in there vets, if that is the case why stay with them. I would not be happy with a vet I was not able to discuss things with, and who was not
happy to listen to my point of view. My old girl Buffy had an attack of immune mediated poly arthritis a few years back, I thought I was going to lose her. The timing indicated it was more than likely due to a reaction to her booster. I don't have my dogs boostered for everything annually but they do have lepto. After a lot of discussion it was decided not to give Buffy anything as the risk of a reaction was greater than the risk of lepto. Evie was full vaccinated as a pup, and now has lepto annually but others biannually. If there was an outbreak of parvo or similar locally I might consider having her vaccinated against that sooner, but at the moment I am happy to carry on as I am.
I worm and de flea my dogs rarely, and have never had a problem. My cats however have to be done regularly as they eat a lot of mice and rabbits, and and frequently puke up worms.:(
 
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