Vaccinations....yes or no after a certain age?

[Nikki J]

some medication is sold online cheaper than the vets can source it themselves-that is fact-it is due to the buying power these large companies have.

so after there many years at university (which they have completed being left with huge debt), paying for facilities, insurance, licences, printers/headed paper, all the other overheads plus the computer system and programme, the staff that answer your call and log your request, then the vets time to read through your animals notes and look at any test results, then give the ok for the repeat prescription, so some one can print off an individual request for your animal, then it is presented to the vet to check/ok/sign is put in an envelope awaiting your collection.

how much would you like to pay for your repeat prescription that can be presented up to 3x depending on the animals health/age/condition thereby providing you with up to 6 months medication for said animal?

BTW, it was not a repeat prescription, it was for one course for each dog.

 

[SusieT]

nikki j-medical secretary who relied on wiki - I hope anyone on here reading your questionable advice and using it to decide how to manage thier dogs health has another think!

 

[Jools2345]

I am fully aware of the very long time that student vets have to serve at university, and I certainly do not begrudge them their salaries ... they probably don't get paid enough for their level of skill and competency. However, in this case of the prescription for metronidazole there were no results to look at, no test results, we had already diagnosed our dogs from previous infection. We probably know more than the vets about giardia, having suffered from this for several years due to the disgusting practice of human sewage sludge being spread on the fields feet away from my kitchen window! Thank goodness the farmer has ceased using this stuff, and since he stopped, no more giardia. However, I digress. The vet had to do nothing but listen to what we said, check the boys over, weigh them, which he did, and for which we paid £50 or £60. We had never used this practice before, so there were no notes to be read. All that happened was that the receptionist printed out the script for us according to the dosage that we told her we required. I thought it was a bit steep to charge us so much on top of the examination fee, but we had no choice, we needed the Metro, we had to play the game.'

you had not used this vet before so no client loyalty? 2 x consultation charge is not what all vets would charge but saying that a mechanic will not only charge to look at one car when you request they deal with 2, but at £15 it sounds like the vet has only charged for one written prescription when as there were 2 dogs they could/should(?) have charged for 2

It is the gross overcharging for drugs and other bits and pieces that I object to with vets, not the charges for their skill and care. To charge £20 for a Drontal tablet £15 years ago is just plain robbery IMO.

i agree this charge is excessive but is it relevant now as it was 15yrs ago?

 

[Toffee44]

Some reading

http://www.wsava.org/guidelines/vaccination-guidelines

 

[Nikki J]

i agree this charge is excessive but is it relevant now as it was 15yrs ago?

I am not sure what you mean or are inferring by saying "no client loyalty!!" I had to stop using my wonderful vet - not that it is ANY business of your's - because she works 12 miles from where I live, and quite frankly with the cost of petrol rocketing, it became unviable. We had to find a local vet.

And yes - the charge i am quoting IS relevant - simply because that £20 15 years ago, is now the equivalent of £40+ . Do you think it reasonable to be charged £40 plus for ONE drontal tablet that you could probably buy for around £5 in Pets at Home?

I could that extortion and daylight robbery - simply because back then we could only buy wormer from a vet, we had no option. I am quoting that as an example of the bad bits about vets! There are many many good bits, I love my vet to whom we can no longer afford to go, she is a brilliant vet and what's more so are all her colleagues. But - in common with most vets - they charge too damned much for meds and prescriptions!

 

[Jools2345]

I am not sure what you mean or are inferring by saying "no client loyalty!!" I had to stop using my wonderful vet - not that it is ANY business of your's - because she works 12 miles from where I live, and quite frankly with the cost of petrol rocketing, it became unviable. We had to find a local vet.

all i was meaning was your vet is more likely to give discounts to existing clients

And yes - the charge i am quoting IS relevant - simply because that £20 15 years ago, is now the equivalent of £40+ . Do you think it reasonable to be charged £40 plus for ONE drontal tablet that you could probably buy for around £5 in Pets at Home?

i satnd to be corrected but i do not know of anywhere that charges £40 for a drontal tablet

I could that extortion and daylight robbery - simply because back then we could only buy wormer from a vet, we had no option. I am quoting that as an example of the bad bits about vets! There are many many good bits, I love my vet to whom we can no longer afford to go, she is a brilliant vet and what's more so are all her colleagues. But - in common with most vets - they charge too damned much for meds and prescriptions!

good job your vet has good points

 

[Nikki J]

good job your vet has good points

I have had dogs now for over 40 years - I have never ever had the good fortune to have a vet who would give me a discount!!

I didn't say that any particular veterinary practice would charge £40 for a Drontal tablet!! I said that 15 years ago £20 would equate to more like £40 now. In other words, as money doubles in value as a rough guide every decade, ipso facto £20 15 years ago would equate to more like £40 plus in today's money.

Comprenez?

 

[MurphysMinder]

My vets are around 15 miles away from me. There are plenty of practices nearer but no way would I change just to save a few quid in petrol costs, it is far more important to have vets I trust imo. I frequently get discount, without asking for it . I had a home visit a couple of years ago to pts my old Gsd. Vet didn't bill me at all for it. You might find it worthwhile building a better relationship with your vets nikki instead of being so critical .

 

[Jools2345]

I have had dogs now for over 40 years - I have never ever had the good fortune to have a vet who would give me a discount!!

I didn't say that any particular veterinary practice would charge £40 for a Drontal tablet!! I said that 15 years ago £20 would equate to more like £40 now. In other words, as money doubles in value as a rough guide every decade, ipso facto £20 15 years ago would equate to more like £40 plus in today's money.

Comprenez?

if they are not doing it you are complaining about something that has not happened therefore it is not relevant

just to ad sarcasm is the lowest form of wit

'You might find it worthwhile building a better relationship with your vets nikki instead of being so critical .'
Today 12:57 PM

i agree wholeheartedly with this comment, you may then get a vet that gives you discount

 

[Nikki J]

My vets are around 15 miles away from me. There are plenty of practices nearer but no way would I change just to save a few quid in petrol costs, it is far more important to have vets I trust imo. I frequently get discount, without asking for it . I had a home visit a couple of years ago to pts my old Gsd. Vet didn't bill me at all for it. You might find it worthwhile building a better relationship with your vets nikki instead of being so critical .

What an extraordinary thing to say!! First of all, are you party to my financial status? I am sure you are not - you have absolutely no idea whether or not every single penny is crucial to me, or I can afford to be a bit more philanthropic. I went to this vet for about 14 years, about 2 or so years ago when petrol rocketed and became a critical issue.

Lucky you having such a generous vet. I will repeat that in all my decades of owning dogs, I have never once had one who would offer a discount. And all of these vets I was a client of for the whole life span of my dogs. With the exception of our current vets, I have been with each vet in question on average for 10 years at least.

Clearly you cannot understand plain english - I have had several times that the only thing I dislike about vets is their proclivity to change exorbitant rates for medicines and prescriptions - never once have I ever been critical of the vets themselves, or their fees for actual services.

 

[Nikki J]

if they are not doing it you are complaining about something that has not happened therefore it is not relevant

just to ad sarcasm is the lowest form of wit

'You might find it worthwhile building a better relationship with your vets nikki instead of being so critical .'
Today 12:57 PM

i agree wholeheartedly with this comment, you may then get a vet that gives you discount

I was not being sarcastic, I was being angry and stroppy!! Not the same thing - look up the difference on Wikipedia

Clearly, the vets in my area of the country are not so philanthropic as they are in your's, because never once have I ever been offered a discount by a small animal vet ... ever!!!

 

[cremedemonthe]

I was not being sarcastic, I was being angry and stroppy!! Not the same thing - look up the difference on Wikipedia

Clearly, the vets in my area of the country are not so philanthropic as they are in your's, because never once have I ever been offered a discount by a small animal vet ... ever!!!

Me neither, we have had small pets for over 50 years and I lived on a farm too, never in all those years were we offered any discount by any of the vets we have used.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I drive 40 miles one way to see a particular vet (skin issues and hips), 60 to another (hips) and they are both pretty expensive. My dogs are not insured. Even the 'local' vet who I go to for basic bits and bobs is 8 miles away. No discounts from any but the first two are worth the mileage. I have to do what I have to do for the benefit of my dogs. If there was a better vet closer then I would go to them, but there isn't, so I can't.
I spent a tonne of money on repeat visits to the local vets who were unable to help, when one visit to the one 40 miles away managed to better cope with something I'd been tearing my hair out over for 18 months.

 

[Nikki J]

I drive 40 miles one way to see a particular vet (skin issues and hips), 60 to another (hips) and they are both pretty expensive. My dogs are not insured. Even the 'local' vet who I go to for basic bits and bobs is 8 miles away. No discounts from any but the first two are worth the mileage. I have to do what I have to do for the benefit of my dogs. If there was a better vet closer then I would go to them, but there isn't, so I can't.
I spent a tonne of money on repeat visits to the local vets who were unable to help, when one visit to the one 40 miles away managed to better cope with something I'd been tearing my hair out over for 18 months.

We just had to fork out £800 for Tai when he swallowed some underwear!! (Don't ask!!). The vets couldn't help hi, - £800 later - and he passed them naturally himself. What a waste of money!! But I don't blame the vets, it was me being an old fuss pot. Now that I don't mind so much - for that £800 he had to have an operation, resusc. on the table because he had a cardiac arrest, 2 follow up appointments and long chats about what we should do etc. etc.

 

[MurphysMinder]

What an extraordinary thing to say!! First of all, are you party to my financial status? I am sure you are not - you have absolutely no idea whether or not every single penny is crucial to me, or I can afford to be a bit more philanthropic. I went to this vet for about 14 years, about 2 or so years ago when petrol rocketed and became a critical issue.

Lucky you having such a generous vet. I will repeat that in all my decades of owning dogs, I have never once had one who would offer a discount. And all of these vets I was a client of for the whole life span of my dogs. With the exception of our current vets, I have been with each vet in question on average for 10 years at least.

Clearly you cannot understand plain english - I have had several times that the only thing I dislike about vets is their proclivity to change exorbitant rates for medicines and prescriptions - never once have I ever been critical of the vets themselves, or their fees for actual services.

You stated in your earlier post that "with the cost of petrol rocketing,it became unviable", and again above that when petrol rocketed it "became a critical issue", therefore I presumed you changed vets because of the cost of travelling to that particular practice. I stand corrected if I got the wrong impression.
I have rarely changed vets over the many years I have had animals (and yes it is many decades too unfortunately) a couple of occasions when we moved house, and to the latest practice when I was dissatisfied with a previous practice (I don't think they are all perfect, see my other post). However I have been with the current practice around 25 years and don't foresee changing anytime in the future.
I think Jools has already comprehensively explained why you can pay more for medication etc from vets. When I can get wormers cheaper online than a practice can buy them in then I can understand why there is such a mark up.
I have to say I would be unhappy if a vet operated on a dog to remove and obstruction and failed to do so, not sure if that is what you are saying in your last post, glad Tai came through it all though.

 

[gunnergundog]

Just to add a spin to this thread: I have quite a few dogs but have never asked for or expected a discount from my vet.

I was absolutely gobsmacked therefore last year when I had to drag one bitch in on a Sunday morning and was presented with a bill for something like £40! I questioned the nurse as was expecting at least five times that amount. 'Oh no', she said 'there's a note on your file that if you come in again this month with any dog that we are to charge you meds at cost only!'

However, I do have a dog that's known as the Frank Spencer of the dog world and has contributed quite significantly to their bottom line!

 

[EAST KENT]

All ourdogs recieve their primary puppy vax`,thereafter it is a yearly lepto boost,and bitches in whelp recieve a parvo booster a couple of weeks prior to whelping.
We did go through a period of believing the anti vax people,and the end result was a parvo outbreak amongst the puppies,which was brought back from a terrier show.
My first dog recieved no vaxs at all,well before parvo came to uk,but he died aged fifteen from lepto,not a nice death.
Doing blood titres was interesting ,it found even the dogs just given primary vaxs had enough immmunity to protect them against first hand exposure to parvo,but did not have enough to give to their puppies.Consequently we lost ove two years 26 puppies,not somewhere I ever want to return to.
The answer with vets is to find one reasonable who allows you some thought processes of your own,discusses options,and in time a trust is built up mutually.Some clients are idiots,and it takes time for them to gauge you are not one of those!
Sometimes the charges I hear about make my hair stand on end,Deal is where my vets are,the worst cash cow areas seem to be Hertfordshire,but no one holds a gun to your head..find a good one you trust.

 

[Kaylum]

All ourdogs recieve their primary puppy vax`,thereafter it is a yearly lepto boost,and bitches in whelp recieve a parvo booster a couple of weeks prior to whelping.
We did go through a period of believing the anti vax people,and the end result was a parvo outbreak amongst the puppies,which was brought back from a terrier show.
My first dog recieved no vaxs at all,well before parvo came to uk,but he died aged fifteen from lepto,not a nice death.
Doing blood titres was interesting ,it found even the dogs just given primary vaxs had enough immmunity to protect them against first hand exposure to parvo,but did not have enough to give to their puppies.Consequently we lost ove two years 26 puppies,not somewhere I ever want to return to.
The answer with vets is to find one reasonable who allows you some thought processes of your own,discusses options,and in time a trust is built up mutually.Some clients are idiots,and it takes time for them to gauge you are not one of those!
Sometimes the charges I hear about make my hair stand on end,Deal is where my vets are,the worst cash cow areas seem to be Hertfordshire,but no one holds a gun to your head..find a good one you trust.

I have mine done every year and I havent had a problem. I trust my vets to do whats right for the dog.

Also seen the pup in the neighbourhood die of Parvo. Not the owners fault. The pup had parvo already as a couple from the litter died from it. They were advised not to get another one for 6 months and everything had to be bleached.

Please also beware buying pups that have been vaccinated by breeders. There are many that just issue fake certificates. Your vet is the best place to get your pup vaccinated. Again a lesson learnt by a friend who bought a vaccinated pup from a breeder. That fell very ill and nearly died and when the vaccination card was presented it had fake labels stuck on.

My dog groomers also asked for vaccination certificates to be produced before she takes on new clients. In my opinion very good idea. The kennels also do.

 

[Nikki J]

You stated in your earlier post that "with the cost of petrol rocketing,it became unviable", and again above that when petrol rocketed it "became a critical issue", therefore I presumed you changed vets because of the cost of travelling to that particular practice. I stand corrected if I got the wrong impression.
I have rarely changed vets over the many years I have had animals (and yes it is many decades too unfortunately) a couple of occasions when we moved house, and to the latest practice when I was dissatisfied with a previous practice (I don't think they are all perfect, see my other post). However I have been with the current practice around 25 years and don't foresee changing anytime in the future.
I think Jools has already comprehensively explained why you can pay more for medication etc from vets. When I can get wormers cheaper online than a practice can buy them in then I can understand why there is such a mark up.
I have to say I would be unhappy if a vet operated on a dog to remove and obstruction and failed to do so, not sure if that is what you are saying in your last post, glad Tai came through it all though.

My critical issue statement covers a myriad of personal traumas that we were going through then and now - with the emphasis being on personal - in other words, private and confidential. I see absolutely no reason to be criticised for having to change vets for financial reasons, and am at a loss to understand why I am sensing a tone of disapproval in your post? Correct and forive me if I'm wrong on that one!

I understand what Jools is saying about meds from vets, I just don't agree - to charge £20 for a worming tablet 15 years ago (which equates to around £40 or more in today's money) is frankly daylight robbery in anyone's book. You do not need a veterinary examination to be prescribed a wormer. I appreciate that they have to buy in and store the drugs, which of course costs money, and also they have a shelf life which when this expires they would have to dispose of the drugs. However, they would buy their drugs from the drug companies or wholesalers at a vastly reduced price, so really there is absolutely no excuse to charge such exorbitant rates for a worming tablet IMO.

The operation, or rather I should say the GA, was to be able to look down Tai's throat to try and remove the obstruction endoscopically, a cheaper option that opening him up. He of course had to have a GA, being a very large dog and therefore it would have been impossible to perform this procedure with him awake. Unfortunately, he suffered a cardiac arrest under the GA and had to be rescusitated, thus jacking up the bill to around the £800 mark. Not the vet's fault at all. He recovered fine thanx very much, we just will never allow him to have a GA again. As I have said before, these northern breeds do not tolerate anaesthetic, many drugs and in particular vaccinations well - anaphylaxis is one of the biggest risks for northern breeds with regard to annual booster vaccinations, and this is well known by the veterinary profession.

 

[Nikki J]

Just to add a spin to this thread: I have quite a few dogs but have never asked for or expected a discount from my vet.

I was absolutely gobsmacked therefore last year when I had to drag one bitch in on a Sunday morning and was presented with a bill for something like £40! I questioned the nurse as was expecting at least five times that amount. 'Oh no', she said 'there's a note on your file that if you come in again this month with any dog that we are to charge you meds at cost only!'

However, I do have a dog that's known as the Frank Spencer of the dog world and has contributed quite significantly to their bottom line!

What a lovely vets! Lol at the Frank Spencer!!

 

[MurphysMinder]

Not so much critical NikkiJ as surprised, purely because 12 miles doesn't seem a long way to me, but I guess that's what comes from living out in the sticks, we have to travel for everything. I have struggled financially so do know what it is like to have to watch every penny, my biggest expense is fuel but there is nothing I can do about it.
As I posted earlier on in this thread, £20 for drontal is ridiculous, couldn't agree more, however whilst you may not agree with Jools you are wrong that vets buy wormers at a vastly reduced price. As stated above I can buy wormers online cheaper than the practice my daughter at can buy them in, it is all to do with buying power. I work in an independent clothing shop and it is exactly the same here, the big national stores are selling brands cheaper than we can buy them from the wholesalers, crazy but true!
I have little experience of northern breeds, but their possible reactions to GA, vaccinations etc sound scary. Particularly as so many of them seem to be owned by people who buy them for the wrong reason and have probably done no research at all.

 

[Nikki J]

Not so much critical NikkiJ as surprised, purely because 12 miles doesn't seem a long way to me, but I guess that's what comes from living out in the sticks, we have to travel for everything. I have struggled financially so do know what it is like to have to watch every penny, my biggest expense is fuel but there is nothing I can do about it.
As I posted earlier on in this thread, £20 for drontal is ridiculous, couldn't agree more, however whilst you may not agree with Jools you are wrong that vets buy wormers at a vastly reduced price. As stated above I can buy wormers online cheaper than the practice my daughter at can buy them in, it is all to do with buying power. I work in an independent clothing shop and it is exactly the same here, the big national stores are selling brands cheaper than we can buy them from the wholesalers, crazy but true!
I have little experience of northern breeds, but their possible reactions to GA, vaccinations etc sound scary. Particularly as so many of them seem to be owned by people who buy them for the wrong reason and have probably done no research at all.

12 x 2 = 24 of course - and when you bear in mind that each veterinary episode can involve, say, 3 separate visits, that's a lot of petrol! We live in the sticks too, but chose this vet originally as they were the best in our area - and still are.

You are so right about northern breeds - people see Snow Dogs on dvd, and then the kids want one.

 

[Kaylum]

The vaccination situation is like the MMR in humans. Less people vaccinated and the disease manifests. They have stopped giving tb jabs and guess what tb is on the increase.

 

[hobgoblin]

I've just had my dogs annual vaccinations. My vet said my 12 year old dog does not need vaccinating anymore after this uear

 

[s4sugar]

I've just had my dogs annual vaccinations. My vet said my 12 year old dog does not need vaccinating anymore after this uear

Did the vet write this on the vaccination certificate?

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

All those who have gone for years without vaccinating and claim to have never had a problem have been protected by herd immunity. As more and more people stop vaccinating, we will lose herd immunity, and hey presto we are back to the days where parvo and distemper were rife. The measles outbreak in Wales is a prime example - normally those few who don't vaccinate against measles are protected by the many that do, in Wales is a large population who didn't get MMR, and look what happens.

.......

But hey, what do I know, I'm only in it for the money.

An umbrella of ethics may be yours to stand under, but your last sentence can't be used to protect the remainder of your profession, assuming that you're a qualified vet. Defend your profession en masse, if you wish, but there are those who have different experiences.

The vaccination situation is like the MMR in humans. Less people vaccinated and the disease manifests. They have stopped giving tb jabs and guess what tb is on the increase.

Otherwise, and whilst you've both raised valid points, with the exception of my sheepdogs which haven't come in to contact with other dogs, away from here, in the last 15 years, the gundogs are given initial protection, as puppies, and I've yet to hear anyone challenge the belief, that their own "subsequent" immune system will be at risk of being breached.

Another question from someone who has no technical experience, what so ever, and considering the MMR vaccine and the dreadful problems in South Wales, how come it's only the children which seem to be at risk? Why are there no adults who are contracting Measles, and why is it that adults don't seem to need boosters?

If we then consider Leptospirosis, and if we consider that the disease is spread, generally from contact with rats, or their urine, no one's yet answered my question, as to why hard ratting terriers seem to stay immune for life, without even an initial vaccine.

I'm not trying to contradict others, but I simply don't understand, and having had a good old root around on Wiki, I'm still none the wiser! I'm more than happy to learn.

Alec.

 

[Kaylum]

An umbrella of ethics may be yours to stand under, but your last sentence can't be used to protect the remainder of your profession, assuming that you're a qualified vet. Defend your profession en masse, if you wish, but there are those who have different experiences.



Otherwise, and whilst you've both raised valid points, with the exception of my sheepdogs which haven't come in to contact with other dogs, away from here, in the last 15 years, the gundogs are given initial protection, as puppies, and I've yet to hear anyone challenge the belief, that their own "subsequent" immune system will be at risk of being breached.

Another question from someone who has no technical experience, what so ever, and considering the MMR vaccine and the dreadful problems in South Wales, how come it's only the children which seem to be at risk? Why are there no adults who are contracting Measles, and why is it that adults don't seem to need boosters?

If we then consider Leptospirosis, and if we consider that the disease is spread, generally from contact with rats, or their urine, no one's yet answered my question, as to why hard ratting terriers seem to stay immune for life, without even an initial vaccine.

I'm not trying to contradict others, but I simply don't understand, and having had a good old root around on Wiki, I'm still none the wiser! I'm more than happy to learn.

Alec.

The children are at risk cause the parents didn't get them immunised. The adults were you dont need boosters for that. Ratting terriers do get vaccinated as far as I know? Why would they?

 

[noodle_]

um wow what a hell of a debate i left you all with


i still havent completed my research..... i fully intend to speak to my vet and ask their opinion, and make my own informed choice and may even opt for the titre(?) test....

Thanks for the replies - its been a very intresting read, and nice some may different POV's!!!

 

[Alec Swan]

The children are at risk cause the parents didn't get them immunised. I'm well aware of that.

The adults were you dont need boosters for that. So a Measles vaccine gives a lifetime of protection, but not Lepto or any other canine vaccine. Am I correct in that?

Ratting terriers do get vaccinated as far as I know? Why would they? I can assure you that there are many ratting terriers which have never had a Lepto jab, and if you ask why, it's because the owners CBA. Perhaps they live charmed lives, I don't know, but they certainly have dogs living in to old age.

Alec.

 

[Dobiegirl]

There are a great many strains of Lepto not all covered by the vaccine, Im sure with the lower ones dogs may well develop immunity.

My last 2 Heelers killed umpteen rats and would eat them given half a chance but they were vaxed against Lepto.

My last dog which never saw a rat died of a very rare strain of Lepto, the vet said it was only the 2nd case he had seen in all his practising years and he was about to retire.

Im sure we all know of people living into the late 80s/90s who smoke 40 fags aday and drink like a fish, yet they do not succumb which proves there are always exceptions to the normal rule.