VERY stiff muscles. Please help.

[Mrs. Jingle]

That's pretty shocking. I'm sure that it can be done with less force than was used on mine and he was a foal at the time, but still...

I would say 70% of the Irish horses I have owned have been ear twitched .

Sadly I have had the same experience many times over. One of my donkeys that came to us at around 3 had and still has deep scars on the base of one ear from twitching in his past - he is around 16 now and still to this day we cannot touch either of his ears without having to devote at least 1.5 hours slowly faffin around with him. Consequently we usually just leave him in peace unless it is absolutely imperative to get him to co-operate for some reason.

OP forgive me for assuming but you do sound quite young and inexperienced - in view of this I can't impress on you enough how important it is to follow the advice of those on here who tell you to get a vet to your horse - urgently in my opinion. Hopefully it will turn out to be something that you can deal with and not as serious as some posters are suggesting. I wouldn't even hazard a guess what the problem might be under these circumstances, just get a decent equine vet out. Good luck and I am sorry that this new horse isn't working out for you.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

I'm so sorry you've found yourself in this situation. You sound very kind, and you've been given poor advice from people you trusted.

When you do get a vet up, make sure you're very clear and honest with them about what you're hoping for, and crucially what your maximum budget is. Don't feel you have to agree to all the various diagnostics they might offer you - some people have very deep pockets (or very good insurance) and want the absolute gold standard best of the best treatment, but many (most?) people won't be able to throw thousands at a problem especially if there's a very uncertain outcome.

In the meantime give him this time off, cut out all hard feed, and make sure he doesn't get cold.

 

[redredred]

I'm sorry, but there's no way to ear twitch right. If you seriously think twisting a horses ear to the point where they feel so much pain they can't move, I suggest you don't comment on my issues.

 

[redredred]

Hi all! I recently bought a lovely traditional ISH gelding who has previously hunted. Was apparently completely sound and rideable. He looked ok being ridden and when I rode him, I felt nothing 'off'. The place we bought him from is a very reliable dealer so we felt no need to get him vetted.

Fast forward 2 months and he's been ridden multiple times and showed no signs of discomfort but eventually he started to degrade. He's losing muscle and goes between being unsound on his left hind to his right front and has trouble working on the bit and lifting his spine. This all felt very wrong and everytime it came to riding, despite being told he's okay to ride by other people at the yard, I felt immense guilt.

We moved yards not all that long ago and the owner of this yard is so knowledgable. She saw him moving and immediatly saw he had something wrong and was very stiff. She reccomended shiatsu, so we got someone out. The verdict was he was VERY stiff and sore in his hind end, back and shoulders. The tendons around his ear suggest he had been ear twitched so we knew then he had been mistreated in his old home , making me feel less like this was completely my doing. The next day, we had a look at his saddle and it did not fit very well (tight on the shoulders, could do with a wider gullet. also jump cut when i don't really jump), despite me being told that it did (Please note I'm a stupid teenager who believes everything I'm told, so I did not think to question this random person at my yard telling me his saddle fitted.). Saddle will never go on him again and we're most likely borrowing one of the treeless saddles when he comes back into work. Currently very unsound and only doing work in walk at the moment, much to his dismay because he loves bombing about the arena.

And so I ask: What could help him feel better? Suppliments, stretches, feeds, ANYTHING. I just want him to be alright.

Thanks

Update: Wow! So many replies. Thank you all for the advice. The vet is coming out Monday and he has just been chilling in the field and going on 5 minute walks around the yard. I did not mean bombing around the arena as in during riding, I meant it as during loose schooling pre- me finding out about this. Despite being younger, I do try my best to ride as well as I can and I would never intentionally hurt an animal in any capacity, I've just been fed lies. The ear thing I didn't think was completely relevant but the tendons and muscles around his ear and poll were very sore, as well as this he is headshy so we came to the conclusion he was ear twitched. Again, thank you for all of the advice, I'll take it on moving forward.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I'm sorry, but there's no way to ear twitch right. If you seriously think twisting a horses ear to the point where they feel so much pain they can't move, I suggest you don't comment on my issues.

I re-read the thread because your post confused me. I can't see anyone saying that ear twitching is OK.

 

[redredred]

I re-read the thread because your post confused me. I can't see anyone saying that ear twitching is OK.

Someone nearer the top saying it's ok when done 'properly'. Might've deleted it but It wouldn't let me quote them.

 

[redredred]

I'm sorry, but there's no way to ear twitch right. If you seriously think twisting a horses ear to the point where they feel so much pain they can't move, I suggest you don't comment on my issues.

*is ok

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Someone nearer the top saying it's ok when done 'properly'. Might've deleted it but It wouldn't let me quote them.

Thanks for the extra info. I looked again and it's in post 3, I didn't find it first time because the quote function hasn't worked properly for some reason.

I'm sorry to read that your horse is ear shy. With your further description I can see why you think he was ear twitched. Poor lad.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I re-read the thread because your post confused me. I can't see anyone saying that ear twitching is OK.

BaronSamedi said that upthread in post #3 . OP can't quote it because BaronSamedi messed up her own reply and quote.

'Sorry but this is a really daft remark to make, a not well fitting bridle could be to blame, and ear twitching done properly is not 'mis treatment' at all.'

Cross posted with MC.

Ear twitching is never acceptable.

 

[AmyMay]

Thanks for the update op. Let us know how you get on.

 

[BaronSamedi]

I'm sorry, but there's no way to ear twitch right. If you seriously think twisting a horses ear to the point where they feel so much pain they can't move, I suggest you don't comment on my issues.

It doesn't cause pain it realeases endorphins. Educate yourself and get a VET out to you horse not some holistic bullshit idiot

 

[milliepops]

I think studies have shown the endorphin effect for nose twitches (for a short period up to 10 mins) but I don't think the same applies for ear twitches. ?

Quite the opposite
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1558787816302416

 

[ycbm]

It doesn't cause pain it realeases endorphins. Educate yourself and get a VET out to you horse not some holistic bullshit idiot

Nose twitches release endorphins. Twisting a bit of loose flesh is totally different from twisting the cartilage of an ear.

I don't believe it's ever right to twitch an ear. It's far too easy to do permanent damage if the horse pulls away from it.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It doesn't cause pain it realeases endorphins

DR, that's nose twitching, not ear twitching.

 

[TPO]

It doesn't cause pain it realeases endorphins. Educate yourself and get a VET out to you horse not some holistic bullshit idiot

Recommend you take your own advice and educate yourself.

Ear twitching is barbaric and should never be used.

A quick google and you can take your pick of veterinary sources
https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...source=android-browser&q=ear+twitching+horses

Further proof why no one should ever believe anything posted by faceless entities on the internet. Honestly DR ?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

whereas the ear twitch evokes a stressful response, immobilizing horses through fear and/or pain.

^ quote from the link in post 42.

All I can say is that the experience my gelding had was so awful that years later he has not forgotten it and he still takes active steps to avoid it happening again.

 

[bluehorse]

I agree ear twitching is never acceptable, ever. But (genuine question) where does the idea that nose twitching doesn’t cause pain come from? I don’t nose twitch other than for veterinary purposes, I have done and will do again if needed. But…how do we know it releases endorphins? I stopped a guttural pouch wash rather than twitch my horse. He had to be strangles blood tested for a yard move, he tested positive for antibodies so obviously a guttural pouch wash was needed. 45 minutes in and vet hadn’t managed to get to the guttural pouch, 2 lots of sedation on a 17hh WB who takes a Shetland dose to have his teeth done. So she suggested we use a twitch as it’s ‘a bit like the effect sex has on a woman…’. WTF? To tell you how angry I was about that situaton would be another thread. But..how do we know this? Isn’t it just rendering the horse utterly helpless by putting its muzzle into what is effectively a snare? I know that’s emotive language but I genuinely don’t know if we have evidence for it producing endorphins. Obviously there are no bones in the muzzle, if the horse pulls back it would rip it’s muzzle off. But horses are capable of de-gloving their legs/feet when they panic and pull back. Why don’t they do that with their muzzles? I just can’t believe it’s due to endorphins, if they had a limb in their muzzle I’d put money on them pulling back to get out of that situation. I don’t have the answer, I just don’t get it. I can’t believe for one moment that it’s endorphins, I think it’s just helplessness.

 

[milliepops]

Have you read the studies? They looked at heart rate and heart rate variability in the one I linked to. I thought others had looked at cortisol but I may be mistaken.

 

[bluehorse]

Have you read the studies? They looked at heart rate and heart rate variability in the one I linked to. I thought others had looked at cortisol but I may be mistaken.

Yes, after I posted. But I don’t know, for me, I still just don’t get it. It is still putting their muzzle in a snare. I‘m not anti nose twitch, but for me it is veterinary use only. I’ve just found this study on humans about raised cortisol and helplessness

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3141369/

I haven’t read it in detail and I’m no scientist, but it’s kind of what I’m talking about. I’m pretty sure there won’t be any correlating studies in horses.

 

[PapaverFollis]

The old boy died at 25 still completely ear shy on one ear. Came from Ireland at 4. I've had a couple of horses nose twitched for vet stuff. I don't like it, do my best to avoid it. But neither of them got nose shy afterwards, still happy to have nose grabbed and played with (smoooooooosh) etc, so it's clearly different from just putting a random body part (ear) in a vice.

 

[Winters100]

I agree ear twitching is never acceptable, ever. But (genuine question) where does the idea that nose twitching doesn’t cause pain come from? I don’t nose twitch other than for veterinary purposes, I have done and will do again if needed. But…how do we know it releases endorphins? I stopped a guttural pouch wash rather than twitch my horse. He had to be strangles blood tested for a yard move, he tested positive for antibodies so obviously a guttural pouch wash was needed. 45 minutes in and vet hadn’t managed to get to the guttural pouch, 2 lots of sedation on a 17hh WB who takes a Shetland dose to have his teeth done. So she suggested we use a twitch as it’s ‘a bit like the effect sex has on a woman…’. WTF? To tell you how angry I was about that situaton would be another thread. But..how do we know this? Isn’t it just rendering the horse utterly helpless by putting its muzzle into what is effectively a snare? I know that’s emotive language but I genuinely don’t know if we have evidence for it producing endorphins. Obviously there are no bones in the muzzle, if the horse pulls back it would rip it’s muzzle off. But horses are capable of de-gloving their legs/feet when they panic and pull back. Why don’t they do that with their muzzles? I just can’t believe it’s due to endorphins, if they had a limb in their muzzle I’d put money on them pulling back to get out of that situation. I don’t have the answer, I just don’t get it. I can’t believe for one moment that it’s endorphins, I think it’s just helplessness.

I feel the same. Will allow use of the nose twitch if I am present and is is ABSOLUTELY necessary for an essential procedure that is to the benefit of the horse (and I do not mean by this to make the horse look pretty), but I hate it and do everything that I can to avoid it.

I have 1 who took a year to allow me to bridle him normally and to touch his left ear. It was a long road of feeding treats while softly stroking near to the ear, gradually progressing to stroking the ear very lightly. Now he allows everything, but only as long as we start in the 'right' way for him, no fast moves, start with the head and move gently up. He used to throw his head around when trying to put on the bridle, now I put the reins over the head and hold the bridle low. It takes only a few seconds for him to lower his head and accept it, but it took a long time to get here. Many days of putting the bridle on, praising him and then removing it and giving a treat. I know that using treats in controversial, and that some people disagree, but for us this worked.

This horse is brave as a lion ridden, but from the ground as nervous as a kitten with people who he does not know, especially men. With me he is golden now, but sadly he is a real example of what poor handling can do to a horse.

 

[milliepops]

The old boy died at 25 still completely ear shy on one ear. Came from Ireland at 4. I've had a couple of horses nose twitched for vet stuff. I don't like it, do my best to avoid it. But neither of them got nose shy afterwards, still happy to have nose grabbed and played with (smoooooooosh) etc, so it's clearly different from just putting a random body part (ear) in a vice.

Yeah I don't nose twitch for anything but it does not appear to have the negative effect of ear twitching so I'd consider it in exceptional circumstances.

My (Irish!) Ex racer is extremely ear shy. Though I'm more inclined to think someone has faffed with his aural plaques, dunno.

 

[Flicker]

It doesn't cause pain it realeases endorphins. Educate yourself and get a VET out to you horse not some holistic bullshit idiot

Any need for this? The OP has disclosed that she is younger, she is seeking input and trying to do the best for her horse. Yes, shiatsu probably not the first place most of us would go for a lame horse, but why the aggro?

 

[scats]

It doesn't cause pain it realeases endorphins. Educate yourself and get a VET out to you horse not some holistic bullshit idiot

That’s nose twitching...

 

[TPO]

why the aggro

Because its Dun Roamin in her 547th poster profile. This is what she does consistently. She will kick off at some point, get banned and come back as her 548th user name rinse and repeat...

 

[Tiddlypom]

Any need for this? The OP has disclosed that she is younger, she is seeking input and trying to do the best for her horse. Yes, shiatsu probably not the first place most of us would go for a lame horse, but why the aggro?

This is an HHO regular troll posting under yet another username, and this is typical of her confrontational outbursts .

Formerly known as Dunroamin.

Going back to nose twitching, if it's done well and the twitch is put on quickly and correctly the horse seems to recover very quickly afterwards and bear no ill will. It's not great, but IMHO is better overall for the horse than sedation for a brief procedure.

 

[J&S]

Re ear twitching: the big old Irish horse I ride is 27 years old. He is the gentleman of all gentlemen but even though he has lived and been loved for the last 14 years by the same family, clipped and hunted, evented and competed really successfully and turned out to perfection, they have NEVER been able to cut the tufts out of his ears, even when sedated (for teeth not clipping!). He has also had his mouth badly damaged in the distant past. It is amazing what the will forgive even if they don't forget.

 

[shortstuff99]

My old mare had a massive piece missing from her lip (not with me) from a lip twitch gone wrong so now I won't do any form of twitching.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I don't lip twitch either, but was taught that using a rope/string/bit of old baler twine was wrong and that a humane lip twitch only should be used (the metal jointed type).

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

As many have said you need a vet to examine him & confirm what is actually wrong with your horse. Don't bother booking physio etc as it is not the order to go by. Quality vet with extensive knowledge needed asap if not yesterday. I appreciate that this is late but with the knowledge you appear to have you should really have had a vetting and this may have been picked up. I hope all goes well for you.