Very stressy ex racer advice please?

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EmmaR

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Hello,
I am more of a lurker than a poster but on the odd occasion I have posted I have received brilliant advice so here it goes!

Also sorry this isn’t strictly CR but the aim was that he was meant to be a competition horse!

I have a 16.1 ex racer 7yrs old I got him a year ago and he has proved very difficult, he is extremely sensitive and things just don’t seem to be improving.

He has had a number of visits to the vets and a number of issues which to be fair none are his fault but has recently been scoped for ulcers turned out he had grade 3 ulcers and has just finished his treatment, now the discussion with my vet was either he is a anxious, erratic horse due to the ulcers or he has ulcers because he is a anxious, erratic horse! Looks like it is the second option, he is an absolute dream to deal with on the ground, very quiet and polite and just generally a real sweetie and really affectionate, brilliant to lunge but as soon as you get on him he looses the plot. He has what I would describe as anxiety attacks, he is fine when you first get on and I walk him round on a long rein a few times on each rein then as soon as you pick up a contact he is anticipating what is going to happen next then when he gets it wrong he panics, once he starts panicking there is no getting through to him I literally have to try and stand him still which is easier said than done! And turn his head towards me to look at him and stroke his nose to calm him down which doesn’t always work.

I’m just beginning to feel he isn’t ever going to mentally cope with ridden work, or I am doing it all wrong! I see people on here with ex racers doing so well with them in such a short space of time I’m beginning to think its me! I have taken my time with him and tried to do everything correctly he has his back done every 3 months, teeth done every 6 months (which has just been done) and had a brand new saddle so everything checked and no problems it really doesn’t feel pain related to me its seems psychological he is also extremely fussy and sensitive in the mouth he just never seems happy or comfortable and continuously fights me and throws his head around, I have tried a number of bits and even a hackamore which he was definitely happier in but far to strong, I have recently tried him in a myler combination comfort snaffle which is definitely the best so far he seems much happier and relaxed in it and we have far less fighting and head shaking, the first night I tried him in it he was fantastic schooled the best he has ever gone and I couldn’t believe it I was so happy but since then has gone back to his panicky self.

I have tried pushing him through it and telling him to get on with it but this makes it 10 times worse, I have recently decided I am going to take him right back to basics and just walk for the next few weeks so he isn’t always anticipating what we are doing next we started this last night and the battles we had to make him remain in walk was ridiculous, he is just so stressy even asking him to halt he throws an absolute head fit and I’m just staring to feel a bit put out I have spent so much money on him I don’t want to just give up but he is so difficult, I have rode so many horses in my time but he is by far the most difficult to ride, not in the sense of bucking and rearing he is just difficult and I cant even put my finger on it as to why, I feel I cant sit up straight on him either no matter how hard I try to sit dead straight he tilts me forward all the time.
Sorry this is crazily long!! Just to add if he is doing something he enjoys and wants to do i.e. jumping (his favourite!) he is an absolute dream most of the time never ever stops and trys his little heart out but can be a bit OTT. But I want to him to at least be able to walk, trot, canter on an outline whilst schooling!
Any advice pleassseeeee!!!
Thanks so much for reading if you got this far I only have sweet chilli chicken and cheese baguette on offer I’m afraid!!
Thanks again :)
 
are you able to get somebody to help you with him? the only thing I can think of is if you lunge him, then get one him on the lunge without a contact to begin with and ride him on the lunge for a while until you can ride him with a contact. then you may be able to lunge him, get on and eventually just get on.
:)
 
Hi he sounds like my lad. although he hasnt been scoped but is now on a supplement for ulcers which is helping , he also has rennies before being ridden. He is now so much better, he is working much more consistently now.
It took a long time for him to settle in the school and it took weeks of just walking in and out of the school doing circles in yard and the school before he settled. He also wouldnt allow me to mount not standing then rushing off so got a block and just followed him round with it until he stood still. then got on and off both sides until he got bored, now after 6months he allows me to mount from anywhere basically.
My big issue now is going to areas he doesnt know he gets super stressed, jogs, head throws, threatens to rear, naps. I have now got him working ok in 3 fields at yard but there is onw field he just doesnt cope with, we walked around it the other day and he came back white with frothy sweat because he paniced all the way. For him he is much better if he has company he seems alot less stressed by that. So my plan is to try and take him in this field with company to see how he goes.
I am hoping he will be a dressage superstar as at home he is amazing so next year he is going to start going out to places and see how he copes.
Sorry i cant help you anymore but i would advise getting a good instructor/two and they can give you alot of tips of things which we dont notice being on board. My lad has come on leaps and bounds since we have had a dressage clinic monthly at our yard.
ETS- he does however rely on my contact to make him feel secure. He only came into work in april this year after 8yrs racing so this isnt too bad but we are taking it slowly.
 
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i would try and establish a sweet contact on the lunge before doing any more riding.....i pref a lungie bungie to side reins as is more forgiving.

once he can walk and trot nicely to that contact, then start riding him for very short sessions, always quitting BEFORE he gets stressed.

the myler combination is quite a severe bit, i would have thought a nathe, or if he prefers a lozenge, the neue shule team up would be better options?
 
Hi, Are you having help from an instructor? I think it's imperative to have someone 'holding your hand' encouraging you and offering sound advice and experience, particularly when you have a horse that isn't straightforward. I am an experienced rider and instructor but I have regular lessons with my fantastic instructor and have done from getting my ex racer 18 months ago. Believe me, it's been a slow process with him but so worth getting the basics right. By the way, standing still for an ex racer is not easy, as they're generally not asked to do it in the racing world! Best of luck
 
Get in touch with Michael Peace www.thinkequus.co.uk he is amazing with problem horses and especially ex racers. He doesn't have a "system" (no round pen, chasing and join-up) he just seems able to spot what is troubling your horse and can then show you and your horse how to deal with it. I had spent hours trying to load my ex racer, but Michael had her popping in and out after 20 minutes! No gadgets or special headcollars, just a very long lead rope, lots of reassurance and a lovey relaxed quiet manner.

A phone call doesn't cost much and I can guarantee he will be able to help you

He is also highly recommended by the Thoroughbred Rehabilitation Centre who re-home ex racers.
 
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EmmaR said:
then as soon as you pick up a contact he is anticipating what is going to happen next then when he gets it wrong he panics, once he starts panicking there is no getting through to him I literally have to try and stand him still which is easier said than done! And turn his head towards me to look at him and stroke his nose to calm him down which doesn’t always work.
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What does he actually do when he panics?
 
Had a speedy read (sneakily at work!), so sorry if I've missed important details.

I would take him properly back to basics, eg long reining and lunging in the school for now. Until he's really happy with rein contact such as with side reins without being ridden you are probably going to struggle when you get on. If you can get him really responding to voice commands, then if he has a wobble when you get on, you can use this for a halt- and maybe some food bribery as a reward as soon as he halts?

You can always do 'schooling ' stuff out hacking, if he's reasonably settled, literally for 1 minute at a time, as long as he isnt stressing over it.

As much turn out as you can, dainty TBs cope better than you think ;)

This is just stuff that helped me with a very naughty self willed ex-racer, with a fondness for rearing and bucking, and limited patience for schooling. He also had a delicate digestion. If I conned him into a couple of minutes of leg yield on a hack, that was good enough. He also was actually a very sweet horse, who sometimes couldnt cope.
 
kirstykate said:
Sounds a complete nightmare, what are you feeding?:)
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^^ This.

Never underestimate the affect that diet has on temperament!!! Also the ulcers - grade 3 is pretty bad. He will need a chaff feed before ridden work for sure to help him with stomach acid. My horse had grade 1s and grade 2s and I have changed his management completely to prevent their return. I feed micronized linseed, a cereal and sugar free diet - ad-lib forage in the form of hay and a maximum of 3 carrots a day, he is also turned out 24/7 now. May sound extreme, but stress will bring them back. I also did a herbal fix for hind gut fauna restoration - 2 weeks of green clay (2 teaspoons heaped per day) for 2 weeks, then a break of 2 weeks then the clay same quantities for 2 weeks, also chlorella (1 teaspoon) per day for 5 weeks (no break).

Have you tried a good ulcer supplement like 'Coligone'? It really helped.

You need to get him to chill out - try a good calmer - I recommend First Horse - RelaxMe, soak a rag in lavender oil and hang it in his stable. To me it sounds like ridden discomfort or at the least 'anticipated' ridden discomfort. You can remove the calmer eventually, but if it helps him to accept his ridden work then it will have done it's job.

If my horses diet changes - his temperament changes also - he recently had haylage and managed to get at some acorns and it really affected him badly. So my advice would be try a really natural simple diet to start with with an ulcer supplement at the very least. Good luck!
 
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what are you feeding ? have you had a tb before-they are a challenge ! with regard to you tipping forward it sounds like your saddles not right- that could be upsetting him when your riding. how long has he been out of training and has he been retrained sometimes just having stirrups long can frighten them? sounds like you need advice from a rehabilitation centre , they would have had this prob before. dont lose hope theres plenty of help and tbs are sooo worth the trouble!!!;)
 
Thanks for the replys everyone :)

He is fine to mount will stand there like an absolute angel with no one holding him, i can get on adjust myself and he wont walk on until i ask its just once we actually get going!

He works fantastic on the lunge holds an outline beautifully and generally 'gets' the whole aspect of lunging but almost seems to me he doesnt understand the concept of being ridden.
I have tried the NS starter bit which he can work nicely in but will still fight, tried a happy mouth straight bar which was awful and tried many more but having spoken to myler they suggested the combination bit and said it isnt no where near as severe as people think, i have to admit i think it looks awful but works in a total different way and my horse certainly prefers this to any other bit i have tried!

I always try to keep the schooling sessions short and sweet because he has the attention span of a gnat! and if we get some nice work with no stressy behaviour I immediately call it a day.

He is currently being fed pure feeds easy 1 scoop morning and breakfast and feedmarks ulcer calm with ad lib hay and 10 hours grazing. 7am - 5pm

Will definitely look into getting myself a decent instructor because they most certainly may see something i cant feel and will also ask a friend to possibly lunge him with me on board or vice versa.

Thank you is certainly worth a call i'm open to all ideas at the minute!

He just looses all sanity, he throws his head around, runs backwards at high speed, throws himself into things doesnt matter what or who is in the way, chomps the bit, and generally seems to forget someone is on board and panics.
Thanks again :)
 
Hi how long has he been out of training? and has he been retrained ? when a racehorse comes out of training they have no idea about leg aids ,lunging, turning, or contact -they need starting completely again as if theyve never been touched, long reining is brill and gets them stretching down into the contact -it sounds to me like he doesnt understand what your asking of him. also and please dont take offence because i dont know your riding level or experience but tbs are not for everyone and they can simply be too much horse for some people. :D
 
Just as a note, the combination bridle is not necessarily "severe" (with all the usual qualifiers) as it actually spreads the contact out over less sensitive areas (specifically the nose) and, again used properly, utilises a "pre signal" - a softer aid (nose) in advance of the more severe (bars of the mouth) one, giving the horse the opportunity to react to the first, milder aid and avoid the second. However people use it now, though, it's not a bit designed to be used with a steady "dressage" contact so it's debatable how well it works as a schooling aid with that end in mind.
 
I have re trained a few ex racers and broken in horses but this one is beginning to dry my patience!
He is generally a really sweet horse which makes it even more difficult to understand where the stressyness when ridden is coming from.

He was living out 24/7 and has only been coming in at night the past 2 weeks, but really isn't bothered about being in and and hasn't been much different possibly a bit more energy than before but that is expected.

I almost feel really sorry for him because it cant be nice being so anxious, i just wish he would chill out!!
 
Sorry he has been out of racing since May 2010 so not to long and the woman i brought him from had done a terrible job and i treated him as an unbroken youngster and he started going really well but with him as soon as he has a period of time off he goes 10 steps back and seems as if he has forgotten anything he's ever been taught! It is very frustrating!

I agree he does sometimes act as if he doesnt have a clue what i'm asking him but this is generally between a few strides of really nice work where he does understand he is very strange!
 
do you know if he was turned away when he came out of racing or brought straight in to work? that alone might be your problem- it takes up to a year for them to come down and de-stress before starting work again and it a very important step in their rehabilitation
 
I'm not sure to be honest the olady I bought him from only had him 5 months so i assume not as she had just stuck him straight in a market harborough and started jumping him.

I turned him away for 2 months but no where near as long as i would have turned him away for had i had him straight off the track. I have been contemplating turning him away for the winter.

Also another issue we may have is he was born in kentucky and flown over as a yearling, he was sold for alot of money and in discussion with my vet, back lady and saddle fitter he may be younger than documented. He was meant to be a fantastic racehorse so he may have possibly been started younger and passport changed i'm not sure if this is a possibility or not or there's no way this could have happened but my vet said teeth wise and general looks, temperament he would put him more 5 or 6 not 7 rising 8.
 
EmmaR said:
I'm not sure to be honest the olady I bought him from only had him 5 months so i assume not as she had just stuck him straight in a market harborough and started jumping him.

I turned him away for 2 months but no where near as long as i would have turned him away for had i had him straight off the track. I have been contemplating turning him away for the winter.

Also another issue we may have is he was born in kentucky and flown over as a yearling, he was sold for alot of money and in discussion with my vet, back lady and saddle fitter he may be younger than documented. He was meant to be a fantastic racehorse so he may have possibly been started younger and passport changed i'm not sure if this is a possibility or not or there's no way this could have happened but my vet said teeth wise and general looks, temperament he would put him more 5 or 6 not 7 rising 8.
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Have you looked him up on Racing Post? I may be completely wrong but I would really surprised if he isn't the age that his passport states, but hopeully his racing record will confirm all his vital statistics!!
 
Yes i have looked him up on racing post but if his passport was completed in america then everything documented here in england would collate surely?

I personally didnt think it would be possible either but you can generally get a pretty accurate age from there teeth and he acts/loooks so young i know ex racehorses are generally alot more immature but not to the extent he is!
 
i think to be honest your only option is to turn him away and ask nothing of him til spring, if he is younger than you think and as he had no down time -youre going to get no where as he is- so will have lost nothing , he may come back a bit more mature and able deal with what you ask of him. my advice would be to restart him in spring very slowly and dont rush the riding - get all the groundwork ie;- mouthing ,tack and longreining very established before progressing to ridden work. hope it all works out for you and we want pics in the spring !!!:D:D
 
archiepoo said:
what are you feeding ? have you had a tb before-they are a challenge ! with regard to you tipping forward it sounds like your saddles not right- that could be upsetting him when your riding. how long has he been out of training and has he been retrained sometimes just having stirrups long can frighten them? sounds like you need advice from a rehabilitation centre , they would have had this prob before. dont lose hope theres plenty of help and tbs are sooo worth the trouble!!!;)
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I have had plenty TBs I enjoy a challange:p:p
 
Have his ulcers healed? If not it isn't surprising he is reacting the way you describe, he is in pain and ridden work is uncomfortable for him. he also doesn't sound happy in his mouth. Are you taking up too much of a contact in your desire to get him to work 'on the bit'? Is he sufficiently muscled up to do the work you're asking him?

Does he hack out on a long rein, in walk, in company?

Are you expecting too much of him?

I would give him alpha A oil before ridden work and speedibeet to help line the gut in his feed.
 
They are a challenge arent they but so sweet and affectionate you can forgive them anything.

When I started mine as a baby I would get off if he achieved what I wanted, even if after only 10 minutes. We built this up. He can still be tricky if I put any pressure on him 2 years later, but we have achieved some quite nice work.

To help us through the sticky times (1st shows etc) I recommend Global Herbs Supercalm and lots of patience lol!
 
I have had similar problems as yours. If he was mine, tbh, I would assume these problems were more to do with his ulcers, and less of a character thing. Once you are totally happy that he is comfortable and his ulcers are under control, then by all means explore all the other suggestions, if you still have a problem.
Well, that's what my experience has taught me!
Good luck. :)
 
I would think a tb is about one of the hardest breeds to "fake".

My dentist reckoned my tb was a lot younger than passport said; she wasn't as I got her from the breeder so knew everything
 
A horse that is a sweetpea onthe ground but gets wound up when ridden is usually a case where pain when ridden is present. Time and patience is the best remedy and I agree with those who suggest that turning him away is probably a good option.

I found having a close stablemate helped mine a lit with his confidence. It sounds like he's not had much stability which is a thing which some horses can cope with and others can't.

I think pain and instability has probably really knocked his confidence and if you can rectify both these things you will have one gem of a horse. I know it seems hopeless at times but don't give up on him. Be patient and give him time.

It might be worth getting in touch with arctic fox about the ulcer management she isn't a vet but really knows her stuff as she used to work fir a Pharma co that makes the drugs for ulcers.

I hope that doesn't all sound completely wooly but I've been there in a serious way!! Focus on trying to fix the discomfort and the rest will follow if he's as genuine as he sounds.
 
Thanks for all your replies, you have been a great help :)

Yes the ulcers have cleared he went to the vet 2 weeks ago for his second scope and my vet was really pleased with how well he had responded to the treatment and that they had cleared really nicely especially with how severe some of them where. So was given the all clear and will just need to manage it now but he will go for another scope before the insurance excludes them.

He is most definately muscled up enough to be doing the work i am asking of him.
He actually hacks quite nicely yes he can get over excited and pretend he's a rocking horse but is generally pretty good out hacking it just seems the panic/stress starts when he is expecting something i.e move up a gear and then when i say no we're just walking today looses the plot!

Oh I no he only has to turn around and look at me and i forgive him, he is very sweet and none of the stuff he does is ever malicious i just generally think he forgets i'm on board because as soon as i remind him or he feels me un seated he will settle down but not completely stop!

He does very much rely on routine and is such a mummy's boy he looks to me for reassurance alot and i sometimes think that when i'm on board and he cant see me thats when he panics, he is alot better if i talk to him which i do alot and probably look like a crazy person!!

Thanks so much will definately get in contact with artic fox i.e the ulcer management as i want to make him as happy and comfortable as possible.

I won't give up on him yet as he does have the potential to be a very special horse and i would like to be able to do it with him. :) we have all the time in the world in between work commitments lol.
Just so dis heartening sometimes all the hard work and money i spend and don't feel like we're getting anywhere!!
 
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