Very strong showjumper - bit ideas

_EVS_

_EVS_

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Apologies because I have posted about this before!

I have a spooky and sharp WB SJ-er who is in a waterford dutch gag - we both hate it and he flings his head up into jumps to evade me.

I had a several suggestions of a rubber pelham which I tried but he grabs a hold of it and again chucks his head up or if he is spooking cocks his jaw against it. I have him in a grackle but he still seems to be able to set against it - obv grackle needs to be done up tighter but I have it pretty tight already and there are surely realms of unreasonableness in how tight I should do it up?? Please correct me!?

Anyway - has anyone had success with a lozenge pelham? I dont want to shell out £80 on a Neue schule if they dont really work - was tempted to try the shires sweet iron version with copper lozenge at £25?? any thoughts appreciated....

Tunnocks tea cake for anyone who has the will to answer after my incoherant ramblings.....!!
 
What does he do in a "nice" bit you have no control over him with (ie snaffle). Head up, head down, no steering etc.

If the grackle is not working, maybe a flash/drop/kineton may help?
 
You can always go onto the HHO bit exchange forum and see if you can borrow a bit. :) I was going to suggest trying a kineton noseband which gives you the pressure of a hackamore alongside a bit's action
 
measles said:
We had a very strong jumping pony and we eventually found she went best in a nathe mouthpiece american gag. I had it made by Equiport to comply with PC bit rules and it wasn't enormously expensive.
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This is interesting measles - was it a jointed nathe? I think I have seen them with a peanut? How was the steering with the long shanks? Did you have to use 2 reins to aid the steering? Sorry - lots of questions!
 
Tinks81 said:
how about looking on equiport??

Have you tried a butterfly flip with a curb strap??

Also have you tried one of the bits with a spinner on stops them throwing their head up - i do have one but leant it out!! its one of those bits you only need to use for a month or 2 x

http://www.equiport.co.uk/products/detail/loose_ring_running_gag_with_french_link_and_spinner/347/
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I stopped a rider at Weston Lawns who was riding in a butterfly flip to ask her about it and she rated it for her strong horse who seemed to behave similar to mine. My only thought on closer inspection was that it would not be disimilar to a baucher would it? or is it stronger? MY EDT who show jumps recommended a cartwheel bit with rollers which I assume would be similar to the flip?
 
Mine can do this too. In a gag he is worse, so I left him in his plain french link and went down the nose band route. I agree, try a drop or kineton as a grackle puts pressure quite high up. Am currently saving up for a Miklam bridle - went very well in it, but T has a large head and a very active tongue!!!
 
I have a very strong showjumper who used to be in a Cheltenham Gag. I rang Neue Schule's advice line and they recommended their pelham with a waterford mouthpiece. They also recommended roundings for jumping, but he's happier and goes better without. He's still very strong, but we have more control, especially at cross country, although it's never going to be very elegant!!!
 
_EVS_ said:
I stopped a rider at Weston Lawns who was riding in a butterfly flip to ask her about it and she rated it for her strong horse who seemed to behave similar to mine. My only thought on closer inspection was that it would not be disimilar to a baucher would it? or is it stronger? MY EDT who show jumps recommended a cartwheel bit with rollers which I assume would be similar to the flip?
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I used to ride Gadget for dressage in the baucher the butterfly is much much better as you also add a curb strap too it - Gadget had a nathe one for indoors but a metal one for outside shows in bigger open spaces !!

no the spinner bit actually spins round and puts pressure on the tongue when they lift their heads up - you dont need to use it for that long though so is expensive but maybe good if you could hire one x
 
Work bearing in mind that a butterfly bit is a reworked kimblewick, if you want a cheaper version to trial

Lots of choices out there and curb gags are quite fashionable now!
 
Tinks81 said:
I used to ride Gadget for dressage in the baucher the butterfly is much much better as you also add a curb strap too it - Gadget had a nathe one for indoors but a metal one for outside shows in bigger open spaces !!

no the spinner bit actually spins round and puts pressure on the tongue when they lift their heads up - you dont need to use it for that long though so is expensive but maybe good if you could hire one x
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Thanks for this - Im bidding on an equiport butterly flip on ebay now (albeit a waterford) - could be worth a go! Will bear the spinner in mind too xx
 
Tom thumbs - will either work really well or not at all

To do a rough test, you can try removing the curb strap from your pelham and see how she goes. Although obviously the mouthpiece and additional leverage does make a big difference, but may give you a hint

Quite a few horses go well in the sweet iron tom thumbs, even though they are a fairly crude bit. I think this is a combination of the weight (very light), thin mouthpiece and mouthing ability.
 
_EVS_ said:
This is interesting measles - was it a jointed nathe? I think I have seen them with a peanut? How was the steering with the long shanks? Did you have to use 2 reins to aid the steering? Sorry - lots of questions!
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No - straight bar nathe which was narrower in the middle and very flexible to fit around the tongue. Our mare was super strong but had a sensitive mouth and this gave her nothing to fight but my son control. He rode on one rein and was as light as he could be with his hands. We tried everything and this worked best.
 
NS elevators are fab bits, I currently jump my big WB in one. I am also thinking of trying their balding gag with waterford mouthpiece.
 
My horse gets really strong. He used to hack in a Pelham but he was awful jumping in it, crept up to everything & cat leapt which is not his usual style at all! A NS universal works well, tried a Tom thumb & was ok for a while but after a few months he was backing off it but I think it had got the message across! I now use a waterford cartwheel which currently is working really well,in fact I did pop the universal back in for a lesson last week & he was finding that a bit too much.
 
Mines very similar, i ride in a standing martingale, and running- and he still manages to come up and smack me in the face!!! Was thinking maybe a pelham or watford hanging cheek?! Hes currently in a myler hanging cheek comfort snaffle, which he works lovely in but when jumping a course he becomes strong and very up in front.
 
measles said:
No - straight bar nathe which was narrower in the middle and very flexible to fit around the tongue. Our mare was super strong but had a sensitive mouth and this gave her nothing to fight but my son control. He rode on one rein and was as light as he could be with his hands. We tried everything and this worked best.
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Thats an interesting thought - maybe the waterford and all the rest of it just causes the fight?

Saratoga said:
NS elevators are fab bits, I currently jump my big WB in one. I am also thinking of trying their balding gag with waterford mouthpiece.
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I hired one from NS after talking to them at the Blue Chips in April but he hated it sadly - again though I got a waterford mouthpiece and i think its this that causes the evasion?

ihatework said:
Have you tried an elasticated standing martingale?
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That had occured to me yesterday but Im worried it will panic him? Can that happen?
 
Just a word or warning re the nathe jointed bits-I borrowed a nathe combination bit from a friend and it broke in half-unless they have changed the design I wouldn't dare use a jointed nathe again -mine was a looped piece of 5mm braid line held into the moulded sides of the bit by a very small metal post which worked loose :eek:
 
I put a german hackamore on my snaffle bridle. Big fluffy sheepskin noseband stopped him putting his head up too much and had the 2nd rein of the hackamore when I needed it.
 
My go to bit for horses that invert is the Myler ported correction snaffle with hooks, then, if that gets to be too much when you've schooled in it a couple of times, you can take the reins off the hooks. Otherwise, a combination bridle, either Myler or Mikmar. The Mikmars are particularly good for horses that are sensitive in their mouths because of the mouthpiece design, but they are serious money and there are a couple of different designs so I'd want to find one to borrow first. With Myler I'd probably ring the help line as there a so many different options, but they are also quite easy to hire to try.
 
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