Very worried about my old girl.

Errin Paddywack said:
She has gone, only took half the dose to send her on her way so very ready to go. Euthanasia vet was fantastic and the chap who came with her has actually trained his dog at our club in the past so looked familiar. Her breath smelt dreadful so I suspect it was acute kidney failure. The other two have seen her so they know what has happened. Can't remember the last time I felt this bad except when Michael died.
I was telling the vet about Tess, the difficult collie I have foolishly taken on and it seems her latest collie has much the same problems, also started when she had her first season. She is like me always had farm dogs and never a problem till this one. She has put her on fluoxetine which she says has really improved her and suggests I see if I can try Tess on it. Worth a try I guess.
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A thousand hugs to you, you will be in my thoughts.
You are the sort of owner dogs would choose for themselves were they granted that luxury.
Much love 💖
 
Just come on to see how things were. I'm very sad for you EP. It must be unbearable. She was a great age and much loved though. RIP Jesse. Thinking of you EP xxx
 
Still getting coincidences connecting her death with Michael's. He died on a Friday, so did she, undertakers collected him on Sat, I am taking her to the crem this morning, Sat. Just carried her out to the car for her last journey. I so wanted her to wake up. Even at her age and fragile she still got so excited if she knew we were getting the sheep in, would be running in mad circles in anticipation. I only had to open the gates into the yard and she knew instantly. She always insisted on being in the yard with us to help push them out into the pens, usually getting in the way to be honest. At the moment I am actively disliking Tess, I am not allowed to be upset, she barks furiously at me and the only way I can shut her up is to shut her outside where she is at present. This is the worst I think I have ever felt apart from losing Michael and I have lost so many very well loved animals.

We got Jesse after we lost our first collie who Michael adored. Took him several months to consider another. We did have two others at the time but I needed another while they were still able to cope with a pup.. Anyway when he did come round to the idea I saw an advert for a litter of impending pups reasonably locally so contacted the owner and were invited to meet her and the parents. Both dogs took to us immediately which was in our favour and we were approved for a pup. I was sent a pic of the bitch's scan when she was confirmed in pup and amazingly the last day of mating had been my birthday. Pups arrived on 31 July when we were at a show and got the call there. Only downside was that there was only one bitch pup and she had a white face. Personally I didn't care but Michael was not keen. We were sent photos and videos of her from birth right through her puppyhood. We went to see her at 3 weeks and found a very self contained pup who declined to have anything to do with us. I felt really hurt as I had bonded with her photos. She was the same when we revisited at 6 weeks until I went to her and rolled her on her back and tickled her tummy. Complete change then and made up to both of us. We collected her near the end of Sept and she was brilliant from day one.

She was with us through the death of my mother, subsequent sale of the home that had been in our family for 80 years and move to my current tiny bungalow. Was with us through the deaths of our other two collies and three horses, my retirement and getting Maddie. Then covid and worst of all losing Michael. She was a huge help with the sheep and took me to G5 in agility, the sweetest easiest dog to live with, you could take her anywhere with no problem. She loved people and when she was younger would greet her best friends by hugging them. She got her Bronze, Silver and Gold Good Citizen Awards by the time she was 15 months old.

She had such a sweet, kind face and I soon got to love her white face and one black eye, Michael always said it should have been al white or both sides black, I liked it as it was and oh I am missing it. Best dog I have ever had and the one I would choose to have back if it was possible.

She was enthralled by my friend's duck and spent hours just watching her, pic attached.

Jesse.jpgIMG1179A.jpg
 
Such a beautiful face with unusual markings. It is so hard to go through loss, especially linked so heavily with another dear loss, you have all the hugs you need and my sympathy Errin. Tess likely senses your upset and due to her behaviour background you’ve explained, releases that as stress barking. It’s ok to just let her have some time on her own when you need space right now.
It’s love to hear the story of how Jesse, you and Michael eventually won over each others hearts when she was a pup. My best dog was a bit of a touch and go at the beginning pup time too, but she also astounded us with her development, friendliness, loyalty and deep love of farm life.
May the shared love between you all give you strength during these days 🫂
 
Clodagh said:
How are you doing EP ? Has Tess settled down at all?
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Getting there but finding it much harder than other losses I have had. I wouldn't say Tess is settling down but I am learning how to cope with her to an extent. At the suggestion of the Euthanasia vet I now have her on fluoxetine. I have been told it will take 3 or 4 weeks to make a difference so we will see. Been on it since Friday and has gone off her food a bit and looks depressed quite often. I have started taking her back to our field now that I have a crate free for her to travel in. She was confronted by my two tups who always greet me at the gate. They then go into the barn for a feed. However the old boy just stood there looking at her which didn't go down well. Cue barking and lunging trying to drive them away which is what she does to the horses as well, other dogs and traffic. Once they are shut in I can let her loose to run. She has a habit I don't like when she gets wound up of charging at me and threatening to bite. Does this in the garden as well. Other times she is really sweet. A Jekyll and Hyde dog.

She is weird, really doen't want to go out, hides when she realises I am taking her. She flies at the door when I go to shut her in the crate, really nasty sounding which she used to do with her previous owner too. Barking is still bad but as long as I get up when she starts I can stop her and make her lay down. Every time I decide I can't go on with her she starts being really sweet and I can't go through with it.

Talking to the vet who had to see her before prescrbing the fluoxetine I found out that despite working with her over the two years my friend had her they have been unable to persuade her even to let them listen to her heart. She will tolerate a muzzle for a short time but then gets too stressed to carry on. For vaccinating her they have found that if someone picks her up they can do it, I assume muzzled.

She has a lot of hang ups for a dog that has never been ill treated. Not sure what the future holds for her but suspect it won't be a long one. Such a shame as she is a gorgeous looking dog and can be a real sweetie and she loves people. No-one just meeting her would ever guess what she can be like.
 
It sounds like Jesse may have been more of a steadying influence than you realised and that you may be dealing with Tess's grief as well as your own grief and her other problems.

If she doesn't want to go out don't take her, there's no point doing it if neither of you can enjoy it. Just do things at home within the limits she can cope with so you're not inadvertently making her stress levels even higher, she sounds as though she's permanently on the verge of meltdown at the moment so the smallest thing could tip her over the edge.

Right now she appears to think the whole world is important and most of it is bad so management is your friend right now, then she needs to start thinking more things in life are good (small things to start with) before you can start getting her to switch off to things. The meds might help her brain state to make her easier to work with but she needs to work out that when life happens good outcomes follow it. If you decide in time to muzzle train to make it a positive rather than a stress then there are good positive muzzle training videos out there.

I'm so sorry for your loss and that you're having such a hard time with Jess now too. Look after yourself.
 
Mynstrel said:
It sounds like Jesse may have been more of a steadying influence than you realised and that you may be dealing with Tess's grief as well as your own grief and her other problems.

If she doesn't want to go out don't take her, there's no point doing it if neither of you can enjoy it. Just do things at home within the limits she can cope with so you're not inadvertently making her stress levels even higher, she sounds as though she's permanently on the verge of meltdown at the moment so the smallest thing could tip her over the edge.

Right now she appears to think the whole world is important and most of it is bad so management is your friend right now, then she needs to start thinking more things in life are good (small things to start with) before you can start getting her to switch off to things. The meds might help her brain state to make her easier to work with but she needs to work out that when life happens good outcomes follow it. If you decide in time to muzzle train to make it a positive rather than a stress then there are good positive muzzle training videos out there.

I'm so sorry for your loss and that you're having such a hard time with Jess now too. Look after yourself.
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Tess definitely not grieving for Jesse. Tess and Jesse lived in different parts of the house to keep Jesse safe. Tess was very jealous of any interaction I had with Jesse to the extent of barking furiously if she heard me speaking to her. It was a constant source of annoyance to Tess that I kept going through a door that she wasn't allowed through. When really annoyed she throws herself at the door barking and growling. She suffers from separation frustration I have learned, not bothered about being separated when I go out, just goes to sleep but actually daring to leave her is the trigger.

I can't walk her with my other dog because if I have to speak to Maddie for some reason, Tess will fly at her and when restrained will have a go at me. I have adopted a policy of not walking her because it was just winding her up and she isn't actually a very energetic dog, if you stop she will generally just lie down. She was like this with my late friend so it isn't new. However once out somewhere where she is happy she will cheerfully run around with the others.

However she winds up in the evenings and gets very alert to every noise real or imagined and then starts the frantic barking which is ear splitting to the point she has damaged my hearing. She will sometimes try to goad me into doing 'something', goodness knows what as if I get up she shoots into her crate and defies me to come near. Occasionally she will present me with a tuggy or a ball and will play briefly before losing interest and lying down. She has no interest in working with me unlike all the other collies I have had. She knows basic commands, sit, down etc and walks well on a lead when not stressed by traffic or other dogs. She knows the agility equipment and has the athleticism and speed to be really good but isn't interested. Doesn't help that our club's agility field has a busy lane beside it so useless for her. Even with a couple of jumps in the garden she will only go through the motions. Maddie gets wildly excited as agility is the best thing in the world to her. It is so frustrating and upsetting to have a dog that is so stunning to look at, has a basically nice nature and huge ability but is just not interested in anything.

My friend Pat used to take her out at least twice a day and walk miles with her, she was a lot better then. She even managed to achieve Gold Good Citizen with her. Being in the rescue kennels for 5 weeks where she didn't get to mix with other dogs, just see them walked past her kennel has really blown her brain. Very sad, I so wish Pat hadn't died.

Pat and Tess.jpgTess 1 yr gotcha day.jpg
 
Gosh EP that sounds so so stressful for you, especially right on top of your profound grief losing Jesse. :( I have had a few collies over the years and I have to say I had one that certainly had the collie 'highly strung and in the wrong home vibe' going on. Strangely that was a rescue that came to me at about 3 years of age from a collie rehoming set up. But her neurosis was insignificant compared to what you are describing. But never the less we had to keep her on a strict and sometimes difficult routine that was definitely her choice, she made her preferences very clear.

Our vet recommended euthanasia more than once, but I just could not go through with that but we were tempted a few times I have to admit. I think in your very extreme case I might well consider it as a possibility at any rate. Do you feel she is ever actually happy? Or is she always so inside her own self that it stops her from enjoying at least a measure of happiness? The difference with the one I had that for a good 60 per cent of the time she was actually a very happy dog which did help with the decision to carry on with her. If you cant at least see that in her do you think you need to reassess where you go from here on with her?
 
This is why I hate it when people on social media immediately jump to 'the poor dog must have been abused'. In the genetic lottery of life, some dogs are not winners.

I say this from a place of care EP, I really do hope the meds work, but there's a few things you've said there that remind me of another dog who had been tricky since being a puppy and it did end up with an injury for the owner, who was not inexperienced and had tried everything.
The dog actually did get worse as an only dog despite not having any real relationship with other dogs in the household.
Although I appreciate you have done a lovely thing for your friends and are still mourning big losses in your life.
I really do hope she improves.
 
Please take care Erin. However much you work with a dog of this age, you may only succeed in training her to accept a few new things without actually changing her train of thought, if that makes sense. Is she a dominant dog, who usually gets her own way (even for a quiet life) or do you think this is coming from stress or fear? Farm collies used to have pretty reliable temperaments, and any that weren't didn't make it past early adulthood as they would be a liability around livestock. Then we got One Man And His Dog on the TV, and suddenly there was a market for the rejects. You have to put yourself first, even if that does lead to some difficult decisions. If the dog is not receptive to friendship, training or discipline, the options get a bit limited. So sad.
 
Errin Paddywack said:
Tess definitely not grieving for Jesse. Tess and Jesse lived in different parts of the house to keep Jesse safe. Tess was very jealous of any interaction I had with Jesse to the extent of barking furiously if she heard me speaking to her. It was a constant source of annoyance to Tess that I kept going through a door that she wasn't allowed through. When really annoyed she throws herself at the door barking and growling. She suffers from separation frustration I have learned, not bothered about being separated when I go out, just goes to sleep but actually daring to leave her is the trigger.

I can't walk her with my other dog because if I have to speak to Maddie for some reason, Tess will fly at her and when restrained will have a go at me. I have adopted a policy of not walking her because it was just winding her up and she isn't actually a very energetic dog, if you stop she will generally just lie down. She was like this with my late friend so it isn't new. However once out somewhere where she is happy she will cheerfully run around with the others.

However she winds up in the evenings and gets very alert to every noise real or imagined and then starts the frantic barking which is ear splitting to the point she has damaged my hearing. She will sometimes try to goad me into doing 'something', goodness knows what as if I get up she shoots into her crate and defies me to come near. Occasionally she will present me with a tuggy or a ball and will play briefly before losing interest and lying down. She has no interest in working with me unlike all the other collies I have had. She knows basic commands, sit, down etc and walks well on a lead when not stressed by traffic or other dogs. She knows the agility equipment and has the athleticism and speed to be really good but isn't interested. Doesn't help that our club's agility field has a busy lane beside it so useless for her. Even with a couple of jumps in the garden she will only go through the motions. Maddie gets wildly excited as agility is the best thing in the world to her. It is so frustrating and upsetting to have a dog that is so stunning to look at, has a basically nice nature and huge ability but is just not interested in anything.

My friend Pat used to take her out at least twice a day and walk miles with her, she was a lot better then. She even managed to achieve Gold Good Citizen with her. Being in the rescue kennels for 5 weeks where she didn't get to mix with other dogs, just see them walked past her kennel has really blown her brain. Very sad, I so wish Pat hadn't died.

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Oh dear, this is just what you don’t need in your life, so sorry she’s turned into this.
Fully understand why you would cling to persevering with Tess, but perhaps a rethink?
If this were a person living in your home, that you must entirely re arrange your life around and dominates everything you and other dog are allowed to do, we’d be talking about coercive control, abuse, emotional blackmail - let alone any financial costs incurred.
What if she snaps onto you when you’re alone?
Or roughs up your other dog, because she is ridiculously jealous and reactive? Or a visitor, someone out walking, could you reconcile that?
There are worse things than euthanasia for animals, you will be very vulnerable at the moment, so do take care.
 
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