Vet Bashing

[Gingerwitch]

I'm not quite sure i follow that but tbh I'd just expect to sort it out between owners if there's a problem ?‍

So if I had the vet out for 3 of mine and I booked first I would be charged a third call out for all 3. If others added on To my visit of 3, they would not be charged anything as my call out had paid for the call out.

 

[windand rain]

I see but a bit odd way of accounting it should be whatever fraction of the total so you should pay 3/4 and other one 1/4 although as you booked it half and half might be fairer

 

[teddypops]

I see but a bit odd way of accounting it should be whatever fraction of the total so you should pay 3/4 and other one 1/4 although as you booked it half and half might be fairer

My vet splits the call out per person, not per horse.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

My vet splits the call out per person, not per horse.

That's what ours does too.

 

[criso]

My vet splits the call out per person, not per horse.

That's what mine does. Once on a busy yard I had 1/8 of a callout once a couple of people had done the "while you're here..."

 

[BronsonNutter]

I split call outs equally per horse if they have different owners in hours... Out of hours if there's any 'while you're here' non-emergency add-ons I ask them how they would like me to split the fees.

 

[KEK]

Yes that does sound misleading.
Junior doctors start on around 30k give or take, Consultants in the early days circa 100k - there are pay bands and various allowances but for an experienced specialist in a London hospital they aren’t even going to be close to the figures quoted.

What most do routinely is take private clinics on top of their NHS role and will also consult with private industry. So when you factor that in yes the salaries are pretty huge (but so is the workload and knowledge, not sure I’d be up for it!)

That said, I’d imagine there are plenty of vets at the top of their profession earning similar. It’s just a pyramid scale after all

I do not know any vets at all, incl specialists, that earn anywhere near that. The specialists I know are on around $100-120k AUD so around 55-68k pounds.

 

[Landcruiser]

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Veterinarian/Salary

 

[Gingerwitch]

https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Veterinarian/Salary

Gosh that's shockingly poor pay ! I was earning that back in 2001 and I am no way as clever as a vet !

 

[ester]

People don't tend to pay you based on your cleverness.

It's a lot of money to a lot of people.

 

[Winters100]

There were 4 horse's and two owners, I booked the visit and vets only split upto 3, so I got charged a third for all of mine I o my had 3 then, the person who added on - and got seen first and changed the slot to in got the call out for free.

But surely a call out fee is for coming to the stable? So if you call the vet out for 3 horses you pay 1 call out fee, if someone else calls vet for 1 horse they also pay one call out fee? So I would assume in this case that if another owner wants to add on to your appointment then they pay 50% of the call out?

 

[Gamebird]

Yes that does sound misleading.
Junior doctors start on around 30k give or take, Consultants in the early days circa 100k - there are pay bands and various allowances but for an experienced specialist in a London hospital they aren’t even going to be close to the figures quoted.

What most do routinely is take private clinics on top of their NHS role and will also consult with private industry. So when you factor that in yes the salaries are pretty huge (but so is the workload and knowledge, not sure I’d be up for it!)

That said, I’d imagine there are plenty of vets at the top of their profession earning similar. It’s just a pyramid scale after all

It's an interesting topic. The AVERAGE vet wage, as quoted in the the survey linked above, is £34k (it actually says both 'average' and 'median' in reference to the same number ). Now I think that industry figures I've seen recently had this a little higher - approximately £36k. As you say, there will be outliers, but I can not think of all that many, who will possibly be touching 6 figures. If you think of that though, all that does is drag the average upwards, meaning that there will be more vets earning well below the average to even it out. Like you say, it's a pyramid, or a bell curve. That's how maths works.

I also saw a residency position at one of the vet schools advertised recently. It is a tax-free position and the stipend is £19,100 per annum. That's equivalent to a taxed salary of just below £23k. That is not a new graduate position, it is for someone who has either spent some time in practice or has completed an internship. For sure it's a training position, but so are medical equivalents at the 2-4 years post-graduation stage. I'm pretty sure that equivalent medical positions earn rather more than that!

Which brings us back to the question - how much should we be paid? As a 20-year qualified equine vet working in (and running a) general practice I'd say I am roughly equivalent to a senior human GP - except that I do quite a lot of things that most GPs don't - minor surgeries, field general anaesthesia, radiography, endoscopy etc. Plus there is also the out of hours commitment due to a legal obligation to provide a 24/7 service - mine is every second weeknight and every second weekend. So I'd value myself as at least worthy of a similar wage as a GP, possibly at the higher end due to my time served, skills, and out of hours work. The BMA website gives GP wages at between £60-90k for a 37.5 hour week. I'm not going to tell you what I earn, but it would be close to the average vet salary quoted above, which is roughly half of the GP wage.

For what it's worth (and in relation to a point someone made earlier) the average ALDI store manager wage is £51,810, roughly 1.5x the average vet wage. Is a store manager worth 1.5 vets? I honestly don't know. But it's an interesting point.

It's still a lot of money to a lot of people, I get that. But I don't think it's a lot of money for a professional with post-graduate qualifications and 20 years of experience working 50-80hr weeks, especially given the level of responsibility we are asked to shoulder.

53% of vet practices are working short-staffed because they have unfilled vacancies. 38% of vets are actively considering leaving the profession. Whilst there are many factors at work besides pay, the relatively poor remuneration (at least in comparison to comparable jobs, and given the hours worked) definitely has a role to play.

 

[ihatework]

No I completely agree it’s a dire average wage for a well qualified professional putting in high hours.

I do know of vets in the 6 figures, but they are the minority and they are generally those that have had financial backing from the outset. Such is life.

I think it’s a sticky argument to compare jobs like an Aldi manager to a vet. They are different jobs serving different needs both requiring a skillset. Just because a vet is underpaid shouldn’t mean a retail manager is.

I suppose it’s a bit like offering horse livery. If the industry wants to earn a fair and decent wage then they need to charge what it costs to offer that wage. If the market won’t pay then there isn’t a viable business. Tough for sure and I don’t know what the answer is, other than if you don’t love the job enough for what it is, then best to get out.

 

[Gamebird]

I suppose it’s a bit like offering horse livery. If the industry wants to earn a fair and decent wage then they need to charge what it costs to offer that wage. If the market won’t pay then there isn’t a viable business. Tough for sure and I don’t know what the answer is, other than if you don’t love the job enough for what it is, then best to get out.

And the market won't pay. You can see that on forums like this every single day!

Luckily I'm content enough. Most of the time! And I am lucky - the bills get (mostly) paid, and we have a roof over our heads. But the profession is heading for a crisis, and I'm not sure what the answer is.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Has the pay for salaried vets always been poor?

Vets of my generation (I’m in my 60s) seemed to do very well if they went on to buy into their practices to become partners. There are quite a few such vets still round here, they have very nice houses with land etc. etc, which they have undoubtedly worked very hard for.

With all the corporate buy outs, I can only see the money going to a much smaller pool of people, with nothing for the regular salaried vet to realistically aim for other than to remain a wage slave.

 

[Gamebird]

Has the pay for salaried vets always been poor?

Vets of my generation (I’m in my 60s) seemed to do very well if they went on to buy into their practices to become partners. There are quite a few such vets still round here, they have very nice houses with land etc. etc, which they have undoubtedly worked very hard for.

With all the corporate buy outs, I can only see the money going to a much smaller pool of people, with nothing for the regular salaried vet to realistically aim for other than to remain a wage slave.

Yes, I think it has. I think I got paid £18k in my first job 20 or so years ago. There isn't a lot of scope for progression either. I am unlikely to earn any more in real terms in 20 years than I do now.

The reason that most of the corporate practices have become so is because younger vets are carrying such a burden of debt these days that they are unable to buy into a partnership or unwilling/unable to take on the level of debt required to raise the capital to buy into a partnership. Many are also prioritising putting what they do have into buying a house etc. With no other way to be bought out so that they can retire, the older vets are finding themselves having to sell to corporates. It is not always a bad thing - some old-fashioned independents had pretty poor working conditions, holiday allowance and remuneration. However it is important that the independent practices continue to exist too.

 

[ihatework]

I think it’s the scope for progression that’s the main issue. I started my first job on 16k approx the same time ago as Gamebird, but the scope for progression within my career has been significantly different.

The partnership would appear to be a reasonable goal for a vet. But if that’s not achievable for the large majority then I can completely understand the frustration

 

[Pippity]

I switched to my current career about twenty years ago, and was earning £25k then, with scope to end up in low-to-mid six-figures. I had no idea vets earned so little, for such a hard job - hard physically, emotionally and mentally.