Vet Bashing

[piglet2001]

I have several vets as friends and totally understand how hard the job is, BUT I think like all professional people in life from doctors to builders there are good and not so good, those you click with and those you dont.

I personally have not been impressed with some in the past, and will not have one of them on my yard. I am afraid some have just not been good with either client or horse. I had one where the referral hospital actually said the referring vet was just trying to spend money unnecessarily. I also do not like being charged £13 for a roll of vet wrap, that is just taking the mickey!

On the flip side I have used some incredible vets who have always gone the extra mile and been kind, considerate and good horse people. I find the best ones are those that ride themselves.

I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend a friend a builder or steer them off one so why not a vet?

 

[fidleyspromise]

A very good friend of mine has just given up his veterinary practice after more than 20 years as he just cannot take the abuse any longer. He got into the profession to help animals, not make huge amounts of money (and he hasn't). A vets' lifestyle is awful anyway, and having to deal with arrogant, rude, know-it-all owners, as well as the neglectful ones, on top was just too much.

I'm so sorry to hear all these stories from vets/friends where they have been abused by clients.

I have had my dogs in and out the practice this year for numerous things - generally minor but one emergency was my dog has been running around the field and there was blood on her paw. We couldn't stem it enough to see what had happened but phoned and the vet had us in immediately - they had to do minor op and cauterise her as she had ripped a claw out.
The older dog has had blood in his urine for a few weeks and the first time we got antibiotics as he had a UTI. Next couple of times sample showed nothing abnormal and he was happy in himself. 3 weeks ago I phoned them crying and panicking as his urine was dark red and just looked like a puddle of blood. I got him in and managed to get a sample - they tested him and all looked ok so they advised they'd phone me once they had urine tested - call back everything was fine so they then booked us in later that week for an MRI.
Friday morning we took the dog and lunchtime we got a call to say dog was in too much pain to get the scan properly but it looks like there's fluid in abdomen. Vet was straight with us that surgery is not an option for our dog due to his age and health. We agreed to more tests and they phoned us past dinnertime - xrays showed a tumour around heart and fluid was leaking from this into abdomen and we're looking at a week - potentially months. We were gutted (this dog had no change in his appetite, demeanor or exercise and was charging around my 3 acre field the week before but the day before his tests didn't eat).
We managed to get dog to eat chicken and rice and on Monday my horse had a lameness exam. Vet let me know my options as Dick Vets would be necessary for further diagnostics so I explained I need to keep my finances open for the dog and her facial expression and tone of voice said EVERYTHING as she said she saw the scans of the dog) and she gave me options to keep my pony healthy and happy for the lowest cost - we agreed pony can be retired so simply needs to be field sound and happy. While I was at field the vet from Friday phoned my partner to find out how dog was and was delighted to hear he was eating and although not great was still with us - he expressed his concern that he really thought we'd be back in over the weekend for PTS.
It has been about 3 weeks and we phoned the vets during that time as dog struggled to get up with hindlegs and a few other issues. Vet reassured us and said to monitor him and he would check in with us later. Later he called and dog was back to normal so vet said he was on call that night and ANY concerns phone him ASAP. We apologised for bothering him so often and his response was that's what he's there for.
Yesterday we took other dog for her vaccinations and dog came with us so he could have a weigh check. Partner took him straight back out to car after and I took other dog in for vaccination and it was the kindly vet that was in. He asked after dog and how he was eating and poohing etc (we'd had runny pooh problems) and I explained dog was feeling so good we took him to the field so he could have some leg stretching. Vet asked if it would be ok to come and see him so I was delighted and we headed out. Dog jumped out of car (we bought a ramp just in case) and vet gave him a check over in the car park and you could see how happy he was dog is still here. He even said that surgery could be an option now with how dog is but we declined. Any decisions we have made the vets have always supported us and never made us feel like we're wrong (they tend to give us various options and let us decide).

I've never had an issue with my vets and any times I've had a query regarding bills etc they have sorted it quickly or explained why it is as it is. I feel really fortunate to have such great vets at the end of the phone to help us through the difficult times and this latest vet has done so much for us that I don't think we can express our gratitude enough.
Their prices also seem to be on par or cheaper than a couple of the other vets and my pony is on Danilon prescription so I simply get it online - if it were just a few sachets I'd have no issues getting it from my vets but the amount I'm using for the length of time I need to be prudent with my cash.

 

[Redders]

Do you ever give anything to relieve stress at the same time as sedation ?

hey, yeah, the sedation (in small animals anyway, I don’t do equine so I am not up to trot on the sedation and local anaesthetic used for each procedure so won’t comment there) is a combination of at least two medications that work in tandem with each other, one reduces stress and pain (to a degree) and the other reduces suppresses the central nervous system. There are many agents available to use together, and the agents used are picked depending on the health/age/problem with the individual pet, the reason for the sedation, and the temperament of the pet. The most reliable ones are injectables, although we may use an oral sedation to enable us to get to the point of being able to examine or inject. Most of the agents used are anxiolytics, some cause amnesia. The combination is decided on individually.

 

[Redders]

Polygon, kudos to you and your husband. I completely agree about one side of the story. I so often wish I could reply on social media with the truth when faced with these awful posts! We once had a horrid post made about our practice which was widely shared in local horse groups and caused us a lot of grief. It was along the lines of 'These vets only care about money, they care nothing for the welfare of the animals' (except longer, more ranty and more sweary than that!). What had we done? A client rang to book a 3rd flu vac for her horse. We had the temerity to ask her if she wouldn't mind paying for the 2nd vac (done 6 months previously and still unpaid!) before we came out to do the 3rd one. But of course we can't reply to her posts with that!



Redders, my congratulations. You sound like an excellent vet, and a credit to the profession.

I rarely post on forums, but just thought I needed to reply to let the other vets on this thread know that they're not alone. If you're struggling please contact Vetlife, open up to a colleague, or even give me a PM!

Like the others, I wish I could say it gets easier. It doesn't. I've been an equine vet for over 20 years now. I am head of a small equine practice. I earn more than you Redders. Not a lot more than you however! I work over 12 hours a day, 5 days a week at the moment, with overnight on-call on top of that every second night, and all weekend (24/7) every second weekend (sometimes every third weekend). I am tired. SO tired. I am tired of losing colleagues and friends. I am tired of the abuse we are subjected to. I am tired of people who are rude to my staff, but sweetness and light when they speak to me. I am tired of people who take 6 months and hours of staff time before they will pay a £50 bill. I am tired of people who rant about you all over the internet when you have no recourse to reply. I am tired of people who ring you at 7am on your first day off in three weeks for something trivial. I am tired of people of people who ring at 7am on your first day off in weeks because they forgot to get their horse vaccinated and have been turned away from a BE event and are angry so they decide to ring and shout at you. Then offer you cash to ring the BE vet and lie and say that you did vaccinate their horse so it can run after all. Some of my clients I love dearly, and am happy to count as friends. Most horses, regardless of who they belong to, I love, and would turn out at any hour of the night for. Today I cried with a client when I had to give her the bad news. I still love my job. But this job has changed. It is not the job it was when I graduated. And it is the worse for it.

It is easy to say that we must have known what it would be like, but to a student a £25k wage sounds like a fortune. I have a lot of students come to do EMS with me. Seeing practice as a student really does not give you an insight of how stressful it is when the buck stops with you. The student doesn't have the clients shouting down the phone. There is no way of knowing as a student how the stresses build up over the years. How it feels to have been on call every second night for the last twenty years of your life. I knew the wages wouldn't be amazing, but I had no way of knowing that if I had a busy week (we get paid a flat salary based on standard hours - no overtime) I would earn less per hour than my construction worker husband who does 8-4 5 days a week and doesn't have so much as an O level to his name. I never dreamed that working in a professional field I would be able to afford to keep a horse on DIY, but not to have lessons or compete!

I am so sorry that so many of you seem to have had bad experiences with your vets. I can see that it is very upsetting for you. But I would like to add that I do not know a single vet that sets out to do anything but their best. Maybe that doesn't always work out. I am truly sorry if it doesn't. But please remember before you post hurtful comments that vets are all people. And every few weeks there is one more vet who can't take it any more and pays the ultimate price. It's heartbreaking. I hope I am strong enough to keep trucking for another 20 years! All jobs are hard, I get that. But we all need to be kinder to, and more respectful of, everyone we meet.

thanks Game Bird.
your point about how different it is when the buck stops with you really resonates with me, it’s so true. I wake up in the middle of the night, or struggle to fall asleep thinking about the surgeries I have done, or the treatment plan I devised for the vomiting dog etc.
thank you for your kind words. I’m just trying my best, check things either colleagues, tell owners when I want to chat to a colleague so they have two vets for the price of one, and that I want to be sure we are picking the best and most efficient diagnostics etc. I also always give different options (when appropriate) and explain why I want to do xyz, but if that’s a struggle, we can drop y but may end up needing to do it if x and z don’t give us answers or doesn’t work, and try to keep them involved with informed consent (This takes quite a while in more complex cases! I hope I get faster at it). Unless an animal needs immediate treatment then I always say ‘I advise doing this, but you don’t have to, I just have to tell you this is abnormal and we can investigate with xxxxx, but as we are well today, you can monitor at home but if he/she shows such and such signs, then we will need to look in to it, but it is your choice’
I had six euthanasias in one day recently, and I really hope I made them that bit easier for the owners. I shed a lot of tears in the back room that day.

 

[Redders]

Thank you so much Redders for taking the time to explain this so well. Much appreciated.

no worries, I’m always happy to explain things that aren't well understood because I think that’s a big barrier between vets and owners.

 

[fidleyspromise]

Kudos to you and a masssive thanks to all those animals that you help to keep healthy or those you help to ease their pain by PTS. I can't imagine doing that every day and have huge respect for vets.
Please make sure you look after your own wellbeing.

 

[Gamebird]

I had six euthanasias in one day recently, and I really hope I made them that bit easier for the owners. I shed a lot of tears in the back room that day.

That's pretty tough Redders. I don't know if I could do that anymore. The older i get, the tougher i find them. Remember to look after yourself too. Keep talking to people.

 

[Redders]

That's pretty tough Redders. I don't know if I could do that anymore. The older i get, the tougher i find them. Remember to look after yourself too. Keep talking to people.

One of them, I knew I was going to find hard, and the nurse who was helping me set up, I asked if she would come with me to help me, and she asked ‘do you need me?’ Because it was a smaller animal, and I replied ‘I don’t need you for logistics, but I need you to hold my hand, because I’ll find this one tough’ and she came with me and was a great pillar of support. So we’re all trying to help each other in my practice, and I’ve got some great friends i graduated with so we talk a lot. I think that’s key for me x

 

[rabatsa]

I have a wonderful vet practice which is growing while still being an indepenant. Having been a customer for a long time I can remember the senior partner joining as a young vet. There is one partner that I requested did not come out to the horses for any reason, as I found him to be afraid of horses and was unable to vaccinate even the quietist animal, he is however my turn to for operating on a dog.

I have had a vet say that he needed to consult with others before treating one of my donkeys. I asked if he wanted the Donkey Sancurary phone number? Yes and he rang them from his car and then treated the donkey. This vet is not afraid to admit that he has limitations. He asked if he could do a pm at his own expense on a dog that was put down due to dramatic weight loss but no specific symptoms other than a reluctance to eat. It turned out to be many small tumours that had not shown up on scans.

The worst vet visit I was at was at my friends place. She used a small one man band practice (since sold out to a corporate group), a locum had been taken on and it was his first ever visit. The vet was South African and whilst provided with a car and some basic drugs he did not even have a stethoscope or thermometer. Fortunately we had both handy. The problem involved a lot of horses and had been grumbling away for several weeks, with no two horses having quite the same symptoms. This vet came up with three answers very quickly - all notifiable diseases but otherwise drew a blank. A few months later after losing two of the horses, one due to heart failure and the other ataxia my friend persuaded the vet to try dosing for liver fluke. He calculated what was needed and she collected the drug. He had miscalculated the doseage and supplied enough to treat every horse on the place twice a year for five years! He was under a lot of pressure both at work and in his private life as mitigating circumstances. Selling out and becoming an employee was the best thing he could have done.

 

[Inda]

I work as a vet in a mixed practice, I’m primarily small animal these days. It’s a hard career, like most vets I actively recommend people not to join the profession.

We‘re plagued with mental health issues, a lot of vets and nurses seem to be on long term anxiety meds and see therapists, we then have the addiction problems, leading to the high suicide rate. I think it’s either 1:3 or 1:4, either way it’s horrific. I attempted suicide a long time ago to try and get away from the abuse.

I’ve been in independent practices where the attitude was we have more money than you, if you have a problem leave, I wanted a lunch break. I’ve been a CD in a corporate and it made the independent look like the good old days. One nervous break down later and the NHS said we expected you to die so all we did was a fact finding task for the death inquest; nothing like being told you’re not worth trying to save.

Current practice is a corporate and honestly the best lot I’ve worked for since I qualified. But we’re tired and stressed. I’m having emergency surgery today as I postponed it as I was needed to lead a vet team during the first lockdown, and I feel guilty abandoning the ship for a month.

Anyway, the point of this self pity party is there’s a person at the end of the bashing, please if you’re going to bash don’t name a particular vet, please don’t risk another statistic.

However, I do strongly recommend clients to listen to their gut about their pet/horse. I went to 3 different specialists for my pup as there was just something wrong that I couldn’t find. Last one found a crushed femoral nerve in her pelvis from a congenital abnormality, not visible on our radiographs.

My mare has PSSM2, diagnosed outside of the practice and referral unit who needed to go down hormonal and then back issues first. That one I feel your pain, no one has any idea on it, I’m now the go to source on it.

 

[Murphy88]

Redders, my congratulations. You sound like an excellent vet, and a credit to the profession.

I rarely post on forums, but just thought I needed to reply to let the other vets on this thread know that they're not alone. If you're struggling please contact Vetlife, open up to a colleague, or even give me a PM!

Like the others, I wish I could say it gets easier. It doesn't. I've been an equine vet for over 20 years now. I am head of a small equine practice. I earn more than you Redders. Not a lot more than you however! I work over 12 hours a day, 5 days a week at the moment, with overnight on-call on top of that every second night, and all weekend (24/7) every second weekend (sometimes every third weekend). I am tired. SO tired. I am tired of losing colleagues and friends. I am tired of the abuse we are subjected to. I am tired of people who are rude to my staff, but sweetness and light when they speak to me. I am tired of people who take 6 months and hours of staff time before they will pay a £50 bill. I am tired of people who rant about you all over the internet when you have no recourse to reply. I am tired of people who ring you at 7am on your first day off in three weeks for something trivial. I am tired of people of people who ring at 7am on your first day off in weeks because they forgot to get their horse vaccinated and have been turned away from a BE event and are angry so they decide to ring and shout at you. Then offer you cash to ring the BE vet and lie and say that you did vaccinate their horse so it can run after all. Some of my clients I love dearly, and am happy to count as friends. Most horses, regardless of who they belong to, I love, and would turn out at any hour of the night for. Today I cried with a client when I had to give her the bad news. I still love my job. But this job has changed. It is not the job it was when I graduated. And it is the worse for it.

It is easy to say that we must have known what it would be like, but to a student a £25k wage sounds like a fortune. I have a lot of students come to do EMS with me. Seeing practice as a student really does not give you an insight of how stressful it is when the buck stops with you. The student doesn't have the clients shouting down the phone. There is no way of knowing as a student how the stresses build up over the years. How it feels to have been on call every second night for the last twenty years of your life. I knew the wages wouldn't be amazing, but I had no way of knowing that if I had a busy week (we get paid a flat salary based on standard hours - no overtime) I would earn less per hour than my construction worker husband who does 8-4 5 days a week and doesn't have so much as an O level to his name. I never dreamed that working in a professional field I would be able to afford to keep a horse on DIY, but not to have lessons or compete!

I am so sorry that so many of you seem to have had bad experiences with your vets. I can see that it is very upsetting for you. But I would like to add that I do not know a single vet that sets out to do anything but their best. Maybe that doesn't always work out. I am truly sorry if it doesn't. But please remember before you post hurtful comments that vets are all people. And every few weeks there is one more vet who can't take it any more and pays the ultimate price. It's heartbreaking. I hope I am strong enough to keep trucking for another 20 years! All jobs are hard, I get that. But we all need to be kinder to, and more respectful of, everyone we meet.

Excellent post Gamebird, I think summing up what many vets feel. I lost a close friend and colleague to suicide a few years ago, and it breaks my heart every time we lose another vet.

I love my job, but of my close vet school friends I am in the minority of people who are able to still say that - most carry on working because they need to make a living, not because they enjoy it. I am 10 years qualified now, and a specialist, so I earn what I would consider an excellent wage - but this is after 9 years of additional training where my salary was so low that I didn't even start paying back my student loans, and I am a million miles away from being able to afford to buy my own house for example.... However my minimum work week in an imaginary world where I don't do on call is 50 hours, and in reality I work 1 or 2 nights a week on call and am generally in the hospital 2 weekends out of every 3. Once foals start hitting the ground in January I will be on call 24/7 for 6 months.

I regularly lie awake at night even if not on call, worrying about my patients. I cry over patients I can't save. I worry about getting sued. I also stress about trying to keep costs down for owners. But then I have to remind myself, I have spent years and years, at great physical, emotional and monetary expense to myself, becoming the vet I am now - I don't think it is unreasonable to expect people to pay for that expertise. Every vet I know just wants to do the best for animals in their care, literally none of them chose this career for the money, but they also should be allowed to earn a decent wage. The other issue I find is that so many horse owners hark back to the "good old days" where their older male vet did such and such, and so when a younger vet suggests something different, of course it is the younger vet who is wrong - when actually, a lot of those things from the good old days are now so far below standard of care its laughable.

By all means seek second or even third opinions, and if you have a genuine complaint then take that to the practice, but next time you have an issue, think about how many vets will kill themselves this month and ask yourself whether you think that vet really set out to fail your animal, because I can guarantee, in the majority of cases, that was not their intention - and your angry phone call or Facebook post might be the thing that tips a vet over the edge.

 

[milliepops]

thanks to all the vets for sharing their stories and feelings. I always thought I'd be a vet, I spent my childhood and adolescence planning to do just that and just swerved at the last moment, something I have regretted for 20 years but financially have no way back into retraining now anyway. I'm so sad to hear that you all have such a tough time of it. And it makes me even more grateful to all the wonderful vets I've had over the years for my horses, every one turns up managing to be in good cheer and doing their best even at the end of a long day. Knowing they are there for us makes the stress of having a sick horse that bit easier.

 

[paddy555]

The other issue I find is that so many horse owners hark back to the "good old days" where their older male vet did such and such, and so when a younger vet suggests something different, of course it is the younger vet who is wrong - when actually, a lot of those things from the good old days are now so far below standard of care its laughable.

no way. absolutely no way!

I remember my first vet about 45 years ago. Very few vets around and no horse vets anywhere near us so we had no choice.
If we needed an injection or vaccination he would arrive loaded with syringes. The first time he went into a stable I learnt what happened, he was a large chap, waved his arms and the syringe around in front of the horse who took one look and headed for the door. Each visit after that I had to ask if I could practice injecting and get into the stable whilst OH kept him engaged outside. (muscle and under skin) This went on for 8 years and he never queried why I needed so much practise.

Then another practice got a horse vet and I learnt the benefits of young competent female vets who could slide in and out of the stable and get into the vein before the horse realised. What a relief that was.

 

[SEL]

My vets will be getting a card and chocolates this year. I've pretty much seem them monthly due to both mares deciding to break. It took a while to get to the right diagnosis with one. Does the vet think I blame them? Hopefully not. I have been pragmatic in my discussions with them that the operation she needs is either under insurance or I PTS. That is possibly upsetting for them but a sad fact of animal ownership.

I'm surprised at the starting salaries of vets. I was expecting this to be one of the professions where they had a good salary potential - especially given the study involved.

 

[Lolo20]

I have an amazing vet over the past two years and feel any amounts he charges are totally justified given his expertise and the time and care he has taken with our situation. However I had a previous vet who charged more but was totally despondent and had no interest in the outcome after providing treatment so it can be a mixed bag sometimes but that depends on the individual concerned. I think people sometimes forget the years of study and dedication that it takes to be good vet. It's easy to look from the outside and just complain about the costs. If you go down the road of owning animals you will have lots of joy but you also are responsible for their care (and the costs associated with it) but maybe some people don't go into this acknowledging this.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Are the vet schools considering the need for resilient personalities when making offers to candidates?

It is a very demanding profession. Being academically very bright is a necessity, but IME vet students are rather driven perfectionists who are used to succeeding - admirable qualities in many ways, but that can come at a cost.

Human med schools went through phases of looking for the academically most able students, which in some cases resulted in doctors who knew all the stuff but who could not actually relate to their patients.

Just a thought.

 

[Redders]

Are the vet schools considering the need for resilient personalities when making offers to candidates?

It is a very demanding profession. Being academically very bright is a necessity, but IME vet students are rather driven perfectionists who are used to succeeding - admirable qualities in many ways, but that can come at a cost.

Human med schools went through phases of looking for the academically most able students, which in some cases resulted in doctors who knew all the stuff but who could not actually relate to their patients.

Just a thought.

my vet school was quite hot on this but sadly vet schools currently do still favour academic prowess over other attributes - the mindset is changing.
I agree we need to be more resilient that the average individual, BUT there will get to a point where there is too much to ask someone to be resilient to, if you see what I mean? I mean this in terms of the profession as a whole, working conditions, poor diary management and booking, constantly running late because of this, lack of working kit, lack of support from bosses, poorly planned OOH commitments etc all things that are just accepted as part of the job and that we need to be resilient to cope with this. But at what point do we say ‘hey, I’m resilient as I can be, but what is being asked of me is unacceptable and not an achievable end point’
The whole industry needs a shake up to realise that just because someone wants to be a vet (please be a vet, we need them!!!) they don’t automatically sign away any right to any free time or adequate work conditions. And that is an industry problem.

for example: I’m feeling stressed because I never get a lunch break (my lunch is unpaid so working through it I am doing so unpaid) or time to contact clients with results so I do this after finish time (for no money) because I am always triple booked (3 pets need to be seen in the same slot) so am always behind, or a procedure that takes 30 mins has been booked into a 15min slot (happens multiple times a day) or we are short staffed and haven’t found a replacement vet yet and aren’t recruiting more nurses as the business needs to be profitable etc.
this gets me down, and makes me feel stressed, but is it my fault because I am not resilient enough, or is it the fault of the industry culture and management issues? If I take the blame on my own failing at not being resilient enough, then an individual may beat themselves up for this failing and feel even worse.
this isn’t a client issue, this is an overall expectation and culture of vetting that will take a lot to shake up and improve!

 

[ester]

While based at langford I did ask a couple of people on the interview panels whether they thought it would make a difference if they just picked people at random with the right grades rather than them picking, they concluded probably work just as well.
I know at that time some countries just put you in a lottery like situation for 5 years and if you got picked in that time you got to go.

At the time of interview I'd have come across as a very practical resilient sort of person. It was another 10 years until I found out I wasn't.

 

[milliepops]

(not a vet, obv, but...) i think i am personally a pretty resilient person tbh, i can take quite a lot being thrown at me. but the flipside of that as Redders suggests is that you GET more thrown at you than is reasonable and then when you do crack, it's really bad times.

resiliency in terms of the actual veterinary medicine part of the job I can understand, because that's likely to be stressful or upsetting at times, it's inevitable. but resiliency in terms of dealing with crap systems or vile people is not reasonable IMO, the way these practices organise themselves needs changing, not the vets they are employing.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Its good to see that many people too appreciate their vets, I hate to see the vet bashing posts, particularly the ones that say vets are only in it for the money. I think if we had to pay for our own medical treatment here in the UK we would have a totally different viewpoint. I have to admit a vested interest as my daughter is a vet, so I see it from that side but as she isn't near enough to treat her own horses (all retired and live with me) I also can speak as a client. I have had one or two poor vets, and experience of a downright inadequate and over priced vet dealing with our pony when she was on loan. Generally though my vets , both small and equine have been excellent We sadly had to have a pony pts a month ago, she was my daughters first pony and had been with us 25 years. My vet was absolutely lovely, jiggling appointments so she could be the one who came out, and being totally supportive. She was in tears with me, and insisted on staying with the pony whilst she was taken for cremation, sending me in the house. I sent her flowers and hope she knows how much it meant to me .

 

[Gamebird]

Resilience is an interesting point, especially at the moment. I started vet school at 17 (I'm Scottish, and we finish school younger, plus gap years weren't really a thing then) so I was either 16 or just 17 when I was interviewed. I was pretty independent and practical and not hugely daunted by anything, but I'd never experienced situations which would require resilience, and I don't know how an interview panel would have quantified this. Students i have now tell me that things have changed a lot since then, but I still see new graduates who are exceptionally clever, and whose mental health probably suffers as a result of their perfectionism. So we are obviously still selecting for this in some way.

 

[Tiddlypom]

resiliency in terms of the actual veterinary medicine part of the job I can understand, because that's likely to be stressful or upsetting at times, it's inevitable.

That is what I was alluding to, the ability to cope with the stresses of the vet med part of the job, with its inevitable difficult times.

No one should be expected to cope with cr@p working conditions or unreasonable work/life expectations.

 

[exracehorse]

The only time I have complained and queried my bill was last year. Yet vetinary practice would not budge. I always pay my invoices. Due to an accident prone TB and huge insurance claims I’m sure I funded most of the vets salaries over the years !?. So ... last year my horse was colicing. I rung vets and says I knew what was wrong. When vet arrived, I was walking him around the yard. NO exam was made on the horse as it was obvious to his diagnosis. She did however put her hand up his bum which took all of 3 mins. She didn’t say that a rectal was going to cost me about 45 quid. When bill arrived it was pretty big. Call out charge. Agree. Electrolights given. Agree. Sedation. Agree. BUT, I was also charged 50 pounds for an exam which didn’t happen. My argument was why pay for an exam and also pay for rectal. Surely it would be part of the exam fee. Anyway.. they said I still had to pay it.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Anyway.. they said I still had to pay it.

And why not?
Visual exam, albeit a brief one, then a rectal, and IME quite rightly rectal exams cost extra. They are hazardous (to the vet as well) and they are not standard, so they need paying for.

 

[Nicnac]

To Redders' post in particular: they are management issues (3 people booked at same time, 15 mins for 30 mins procedures, poor staffing/oncall practice). I run a highly regulated 24/7/365 company where staff need to be super resilient (sometimes violent clients, unpleasant families, being sworn at, told they're useless, always under time pressure, running late due to unforeseen circumstances/traffic) and it's up to me to ensure that each branch runs as efficiently and as profitably as possible.

However it is also hugely important that staff feel supported by management and are getting the time and the tools required to do their jobs with adequate rest and are therefore able to deliver the best quality of service and care to clients. I feel for you all.

 

[ponynutz]

In terms of cost I think saddlers get it the worst. I know my Dad certainly sees it as an unnecessary cost and limits it to once every few years

 

[Landcruiser]

It's not just vets that take stick. I'm a small animal vet receptionist. My wage has fallen relative to inflation, since the minimum wage went up, that's what all of us receptionists are on at our practice. Literally minimum wage.
We have to pretend to laugh when clients make the "joke" about paying for vet's holidays/mansion/Rolls Royce, while knowing our vets routinely work 12 hour days, grab a sandwich during rounds, and generally work themselves to a frazzle for a salary that would amaze the clients.
As front line admin, we have to chase up outstanding debt, currently standing at about £50,000 for our small practice. You would be amazed at the abuse we get - a colleague was threatened with violence recently, and the police were called. This was for asking someone to pay a consult charge, for a consult they had already had, and to which they had agreed charges beforehand.
Clients complaining about costs is routine, in fact the clients who pay without quibbling are probably the exception. Yes, online pharmacies are much cheaper for drugs than we can ever be. We can only buy as we go, in small quantities. They have massive buying power, can bulk buy, and don't have anything like the overheads we do.

Complaining about consult charges is also very common. "Why do I have to pay, the vet didn't DO anything?" (as in gave no actual drugs). What they don't realise is exactly how many people and how much infrastructure, staff wages, rent, equipment, training, insurance and so on has already been invested by the vet to get them to the point of being able to spend their 15 minutes having their animal examined.

I actually love my job, I was a teacher previously and vet reception work is a breeze in comparison...in that I walk away after my shift and forget about it until my next one. But I'm pretty tough, and old, and I tend to stand up for myself. Some of my younger and more sensitive colleagues are reduced to tears by people being unreasonable and shouty and rude to them, either for nothing or for tiny mistakes, or vets running late, which can happen in busy practices especially if emergencies come in.

 

[paddy555]

So ... last year my horse was colicing. I rung vets and says I knew what was wrong. When vet arrived, I was walking him around the yard. NO exam was made on the horse as it was obvious to his diagnosis. She did however put her hand up his bum which took all of 3 mins. She didn’t say that a rectal was going to cost me about 45 quid. When bill arrived it was pretty big. Call out charge. Agree. Electrolights given. Agree. Sedation. Agree. BUT, I was also charged 50 pounds for an exam which didn’t happen. My argument was why pay for an exam and also pay for rectal. Surely it would be part of the exam fee. Anyway.. they said I still had to pay it.

I find that strange, perhaps my vets are just pedantic. If I call them out for a colic and it is pretty obvious to both of us what it is then they always take the heart rate and always listen to the gut sounds with a stethoscope. They also always ask why he has got coli and check the membrane colour amongst other things.

 

[Kat]

I'm genuinely astonished about vet salaries. I had no idea that they were generally quite low. Is this a commonality across the industry or are there regional differences?

I think salaries in the professions are generally much lower than people expect.

The salary for newly qualified solicitors outside London is roughly equivalent to the salary Redders is on. That's for people with a degree, a post graduate diploma and on the job training. Salaries increase after qualification but not as much as many expect and the big salaries are only for partners in large firms or the City of London. There is a lot of pressure to work long hours with no paid overtime, pressure to hit targets and horrible consequences if you make a mistake.

You can earn more on a grad scheme for a large supermarket chain than as a junior solicitor. I worked with a solicitor who returned to nursing as she earned more as a nurse. Newly qualified barristers earn even less, often failing to make a profit for the first year, and certainly not in danger of being required to pay off their student loans for the first couple of years.

Wages generally have fallen in real terms for all but minimum wage jobs.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I have a wonderful vet practice which is growing while still being an indepenant. Having been a customer for a long time I can remember the senior partner joining as a young vet. There is one partner that I requested did not come out to the horses for any reason, as I found him to be afraid of horses and was unable to vaccinate even the quietist animal, he is however my turn to for operating on a dog.

I think your vets might be mine, is the vet who is frightened of horses, a cow specialist?