Vet bills & the hunt.

[twiggy2]

I hope the ponies are OK today

 

[MagicMelon]

I would be absolutely apocalyptic and sending a strongly worded email, tonight, attached to it would be a copy of the email id sent them asking them to let you know when they were there

I'd be taking photos of the trashed field and the sweated up horses (know this may not have been on your mind)

Any lameness or injuries I'd be recording/photographing

I'd also want to know if they definitely had permission, because it makes me think they didn't as you weren't contacted, if it turns out they didn't, I'd also be going down the hunting illegally route, because if it was a proper laid trail, they wouldn't need to go on land they didn't have permission for if there was a proper fake trail to follow.....

I don't know how you stand legally with getting vets fees back, but I'd be wanting them to contribute if it comes to that, as at the bare minimum you'd requested that they notify you so you could take precautions, this didn't happen. At worst they were hunting actual fox, which is illegal

Do you have any chance of getting the neighbours to retract permission so this can't happen again?

This. Id be absolutely mental. This is why Im so pleased we dont have hunting in my area. I just cannot see how apparently-horsey people dont see the stress and upset they're causing others. The mind truly boggles.

Id be writing a very strongly worded email to them and copying in the landowner too. Id personally threaten legal action if they dont stop going in that field next to yours, its not acceptable to be that close to someone elses animals and land IMO. Id also advise them that if there is a vets bill, that it will be sent to them.

 

[MagicMelon]

@dotty1 it's your kind of situation I'm worried about. If I'd had any idea they were in the area I wouldn't have had an injured horse in the field because another field pet is the last thing I need.

I'm furious enough to follow this up and if any of them need the vet tomorrow then it will be all guns blazing. Plus they took their bl**dy quad bikes up the bridlepath again. The ground will be trashed - that's one for the council.

Report them for the damage to the bridlepath!

 

[piglet2001]

I think if they were on your land then certainly speak to them but if they were on neighbouring land with permission then they have done nothing ‘wrong’. Whilst I agree it would be nice to have a note/call they don’t need to and it may have been a last minute meet change. Like another poster has said there are often inconveniences with sharing the planet with others and hunts/shoots/hikers/cyclists are all part of that. I am sure you were polite on Saturday but if not is that maybe why you haven’t been told about the meet. Maybe they are wary of approaching you. Maybe they have a new secretary … Maybe they just didn’t think… At the end of the day though they have done nothing wrong if they have had permission to cross the land they have crossed. They can also go on bridleways/footpaths with the landowners permission.

 

[FestiveG]

We are plagued by cycle "time trials" (races by another name) we get no warning and their behaviour on public roads is abysmal particularly around horses. They are behaving within the law. Our neighbour rough shoots rabbits, I would never expect him to inform me in advance, his land, his choice.
Given the antipathy towards horses on the roads and bridleways, I think people need to be careful of complaining about people, as campaigns to stop people doing things can become the norm and then we will have campaigns to stop horses on the roads.

 

[SEL]

I hope the ponies are OK today

Thanks for asking

One is lame. Vet is aware but I'm tied up with work until Wed so he'll be on paddock rest. He's pretty sane unless he's wound up so it'll either sort itself out by Wed or I'll be running up a bill.

I think if they were on your land then certainly speak to them but if they were on neighbouring land with permission then they have done nothing ‘wrong’. Whilst I agree it would be nice to have a note/call they don’t need to and it may have been a last minute meet change. Like another poster has said there are often inconveniences with sharing the planet with others and hunts/shoots/hikers/cyclists are all part of that. I am sure you were polite on Saturday but if not is that maybe why you haven’t been told about the meet. Maybe they are wary of approaching you. Maybe they have a new secretary … Maybe they just didn’t think… At the end of the day though they have done nothing wrong if they have had permission to cross the land they have crossed. They can also go on bridleways/footpaths with the landowners permission.

Wrong - no

But it is common courtesy to let adjoining landowners know if you are going to be causing disruption and they can easily see my horses when they lay the trail. A note through the gate would have sufficed. There was no one to be rude or polite to because no one bothered to come and see me and check whether my livestock were ok. They don't have a new secretary - the same one I emailed before Xmas last time they were in the area asking them to keep me informed.

The bridleway is public access for horses but not for quad bikes.

 

[paddy555]

We are plagued by cycle "time trials" (races by another name) we get no warning and their behaviour on public roads is abysmal particularly around horses. They are behaving within the law. Our neighbour rough shoots rabbits, I would never expect him to inform me in advance, his land, his choice.
Given the antipathy towards horses on the roads and bridleways, I think people need to be careful of complaining about people, as campaigns to stop people doing things can become the norm and then we will have campaigns to stop horses on the roads.

but that is a bit different to 20 people, often more, in the next field continually firing shotguns. The odd shot followed by another odd shot to kill rabbits/vermin etc is no problem. The problem is when they are firing continually, shot is landing on your roof (where you have put your horse to keep him safe) when you are trying to ride home but the only way is through/past the shoot who you cannot get to stop shooting for a few minutes until you can safely get past. (public road) That happened to my OH. Fortunately I realised t he problem, went to help and asked the shoot to stop. The person I asked advised me he couldn't. They were lined up across the field with no way of stopping them. The birds flew and bang, bang, bang, bang.
Horse started going through and just took off for home as the shooting started down a slippery tarmac road. Luckily OH is a very good rider. A child/novice/nervous rider may not have been so lucky,

The hunt"s behaviour is also abysmal around horses yet as riders they should surely understand horses?
Equally abysmal towards residents and their domestic pets.
Equally abysmal towards t he damage to paths/tracks and grass verges.
Equally abysmal in letting their hounds onto fields without permission.

As far as I can see we should complain at every opportunity about their behaviour. They must be held to account.

do you think it would be courteous if you were going to exercise 40/50 horses or more and a lot of hounds across fields next to horses to let the "pony owner" on the other side of the fence know? Failure to do so is, to me, just plain rude//bad manners/inconsiderate/couldn't give a damn about other horses. Perhaps though you just find that degree of rudeness acceptable?

.If your own horse was in that field with either the hunt or a shoot and got spooked badly and ended up on 3 legs with several months of rehab plus a lot of vets bills would you mind?

 

[ester]

I think the trouble with the quad is that if they have permission from the land owner that supersedes any PROW restrictions

 

[Tiddlypom]

The bridleway needs to be kept in good condition and fit for purpose, though.

Who is responsible for maintaining it and repairing any damage, the owner or the council? It ought not to be left impassable.

Is the directive issued by the BHSA after the Avon Vale got suspended for hunts not to use terrier men not still live?

 

[ester]

Yes iirc there’s usually a 2 week space to ‘make good’ (I’ve only come across that when fields have been ploughed for instance)

Reports go to the council and I think they usually liaise with land owners

 

[maisie06]

I prefer our local shoots to the hunt. The local woods have a shoot - signs up on the trails leading to that area, shooting days well advertised. The local farm shoot - one of the guys who works for them usually tries to catch us hacking or will drive up to say hi when they are due. So with both shoots we are well informed and can keep our ponies safe. I mean, I don’t understand why they want to stand there and shoot birds, but at least they try not to be dangerous to the local populace while doing so.

I hope the vet visit throws up something minor and easily fixed SEL. I would definitely copy your email to the hunt’s regulatory body. Then kick up a fuss with them when you get ignored…

I work my dogs on a local shoot the beaters are told NOT to use flags near the horse field, wehave to work a hedgeline down towards a wood in a field that has horses in it, it's part of a yard that makes up the property owned by the shoot captain and TBH the horses are very chilled about it as the shooting takes place on the other side of the wood. It;s not a commercial massacre and every bird shot is picked and eaten - nothing like my dogs flushing the birds and then having them on the table at the end of the day - pheasant and Chorizo sausage rolls are amazing and the birds have a better lifethan a supermarket chicken - I can tell you a few things about the poultry industry that would turn you off chicken for the rest of your life! I do get that it's not for everyone, just Like I can't watch high level dressage or showing and I don't like polo either as I don't like the way the horses are treated.

 

[SEL]

I think the trouble with the quad is that if they have permission from the land owner that supersedes any PROW restrictions

They don't have permission from one of the landowners - but he says it's not worth the hassle to speak to them because he'll get grief. I have a feeling there is history.
But I'll flag it with the council. Given the roads around here are full of potholes I won't hold out hope but at least letting them know means they may have a word.

 

[nagblagger]

You never know SEL, if the council think they can get someone else to fix something they may respond.

 

[Fransurrey]

The bridleway needs to be kept in good condition and fit for purpose, though.

Who is responsible for maintaining it and repairing any damage, the owner or the council? It ought not to be left impassable.

Is the directive issued by the BHSA after the Avon Vale got suspended for hunts not to use terrier men not still live?

From memory, the surface is the responsibility of the landowner, the boundary (width, cutting back and so on) is the council. So, the landowner needs to be made aware if there are multiple quad bikes using a bridleway or footpath, so they can enforce 'making good' - I would make sure the council ROW officer is copied in, though.

 

[paddy555]

! I do get that it's not for everyone, just Like I can't watch high level dressage or showing and I don't like polo either as I don't like the way the horses are treated.

I think you are missing part of the point here. I also don't like many horse activities nor many other activities but they have no effect on my animals so, like them or not it is a case of living with them

The difference with hunting and shooting is that they do potentially damage my horses and cause me a lot of disruption because of the risk of them when I have no idea if they will be around..

We used to have many mallards here (in the countryside) on the river. Now there are none. They have all been shot. Today I sat and watched lots of mallards. I had to go to a city to do so.

 

[ester]

They don't have permission from one of the landowners - but he says it's not worth the hassle to speak to them because he'll get grief. I have a feeling there is history.
But I'll flag it with the council. Given the roads around here are full of potholes I won't hold out hope but at least letting them know means they may have a word.

Different departments I usually get a better response about prow than any road issues reported

 

[twiggy2]

We are plagued by cycle "time trials" (races by another name) we get no warning and their behaviour on public roads is abysmal particularly around horses. They are behaving within the law. Our neighbour rough shoots rabbits, I would never expect him to inform me in advance, his land, his choice.
Given the antipathy towards horses on the roads and bridleways, I think people need to be careful of complaining about people, as campaigns to stop people doing things can become the norm and then we will have campaigns to stop horses on the roads.

The hunt are on private land though which means unless they pre warn people that they will be in areas there is generally not public access to problems can and do occur.
Rough shootings general effect on horses is hardly comparable to the effect that a herd of horses and a pack of dogs often has on them.
Not sure how you can compare the 2 but if for arguments sake you had only one field and it was next to where your neighbour rough shoots and you had a horse that ran itself so hard it injured itself or had colic I wouldn't think it outrageous to say to the neighbour 'I have a daft horse is there any chance you could give me the heads up when your going to be shooting'

 

[Tiddlypom]

Not sure how you can compare the 2 but if for arguments sake you had only one field and it was next to where your neighbour rough shoots and you had a horse that ran itself so hard it injured itself or had colic I wouldn't think it outrageous to say to the neighbour 'I have a daft horse is there any chance you could give me the heads up when your going to be shooting'

Quite. You are not asking your neighbour not to shoot, but just to let you know when they are going to shoot so that you can sort your horses out.

Neighbour could refuse to tell you as it’s none of your business, or they could agree to let you know so that you can deal with your horse.

Which is the better response?

ETA swap this to a neighbour who refuses to tell you when they are planning a big fireworks display right next to your boundary. Your animals are turned out as usual and they are frantic. If you’d known, you’d have brought them in or put them in another field.

 

[minesadouble]

They don't have permission from one of the landowners - but he says it's not worth the hassle to speak to them because he'll get grief. I have a feeling there is history.
But I'll flag it with the council. Given the roads around here are full of potholes I won't hold out hope but at least letting them know means they may have a word.

Given that they are so local to you do you not have any horsey friends who are subscribers who could tell you when they are meeting in your area?
I know it's not the ideal solution but at least it's something practical that could help you prepare.

 

[blitznbobs]

vermin etc is no problem. The problem is when they are firing continually, shot is landing on your roof

This is classed as armed trespass which is a serious criminal offenceand can hold a prison sentence (and definitely would cause them to lose their firearms / shot gun licence) it should be reported to the police

 

[maya2008]

This is classed as armed trespass which is a serious criminal offenceand can hold a prison sentence (and definitely would cause them to lose their firearms / shot gun licence) it should be reported to the police

I would definitely take video evidence and report (and possibly call in while occurring as they’ll be there for hours so might send someone round to investigate). They shoot literally across the road from us. Always shooting away from the road, up onto their own land. Horses stand and watch, completely unbothered.

 

[Clodagh]

I think armed trespass is actually going on to someone’s property with a gun, not shot landing on it.

 

[Tiddlypom]

This is the Code of Good Shooting practice.

‘Avoid birds and spent shot falling on to public places, roads and neighbouring property’.

https://www.codeofgoodshootingpractice.org.uk/pdf/COGSP.pdf

There is a whole section on shooting around horses and walkers.

 

[Fransurrey]

This is classed as armed trespass which is a serious criminal offenceand can hold a prison sentence (and definitely would cause them to lose their firearms / shot gun licence) it should be reported to the police

Not quite the same, but out running once, I had hot shot raining down on my legs, running past our local shoot. Is that the same thing? I was on privately owned F.C leased land (on a footpath).

 

[blitznbobs]

Not quite the same, but out running once, I had hot shot raining down on my legs, running past our local shoot. Is that the same thing? I was on privately owned F.C leased land (on a footpath).

If any shot lands on land that does not have direct permission to be on - then yes it is armed trespass… it is why most shoots are very careful about shooting away from the road and having good relations with neighbours …

 

[blitznbobs]

I think armed trespass is actually going on to someone’s property with a gun, not shot landing on it.

Not necessarily True… you can not shoot into someone else’s property if they can prove it was accidental they can claim ‘constructive trespass ‘ but going out with a gun in the uk is not really considered accidental … so the weight is very much on the gun bearer

 

[Velcrobum]

Word locally is that last Thursday Heythrop Hunt went through the yard and down the drive of a local livery yard. No permission to be there. Also this place is in their Monday country not Thursday Country.

 

[Velcrobum]

I'm very much hoping this comes to nothing but the horses were still too wired to even contemplate trotting up this evening.

No notification that the hunt were around today (& I have the email I sent the secretary last year reminding them where I am and my number).

We popped out at lunch leaving 3 calm horses pushing treat balls around. One had a fall on Wed and I have a video of him trotting up this morning looking virtually sound. Lovely day so a calm mooch in the paddock seemed in order.

Came back 2 hours later to a quad in my gateway and a suited and booted lady on a horse. I instantly started swearing. Horses all drenched and doing laps of the field. They bust through the fencing too. Took me ages to wrangle them into stables. The hunt come down the field next to me and it was a big field.

So the Bute was handed out tonight and I have no idea if I'll be calling a vet this week. If I do end up with a bill I'll be phoning the BHS for advice but I'm assuming it will come to nothing. I'm assuming that because they had permission to be on the neighbouring land then it's just tough luck if I end up with injured horses??

Was this Bicester and Whaddon chase??

 

[SEL]

Was this Bicester and Whaddon chase??

Kimblewick.

Although I used to be on livery by land both the Kimblewick and Bicester would use and that used to be a bit stressful. Often their meet would be miles away but the "trails" would take them across country near the yard

4 horses off the horse walker in record time once and the air ambulance twice after nasty falls nearby.

 

[Gloi]

There are. That doesn’t stop the local shooters standing in the field opposite us, 10 yards from the road. Very eagerly counting down the days until they stop.

I was hacking last week and on the home stretch unfortunately met a group shooting pheasants. The beaters were behind the hedge very close to the road, the guns 50 yards away. Not what I needed with traffic coming both ways on the road.