Vet fees under review

[meleeka]

I’m worried about my equine vet. The bills I get when she comes are much lower than her colleagues give. Hers are reasonable, but I expect she’s not meeting any targets set by the corporate. For instance when she comes to take blood for cushings, I get billed for the visit, taking the blood and lab fee. If anyone else does it there’s a “brief consultation” fee of £30 added. Nobody consults anything, the pony has had cushings for 10 years so I don’t need any advice, we usually just chat about the weather

 

[Birker2020]

I was amazed when the one vet used never seemed to be in a rush to leave me and would often stand around talking about nothing in general. I think it was because you would feel better when you got their massive invoice through the post, like you had had value for money or something

 

[Cortez]

I wonder why vet fees are so much lower in other countries? Here (Ireland) small animal seems to be at least half of what you're all paying, and horse stuff even less. And no, it's not because vets are crap here.

 

[Clodagh]

I wonder why vet fees are so much lower in other countries? Here (Ireland) small animal seems to be at least half of what you're all paying, and horse stuff even less. And no, it's not because vets are crap here.

The Irish are like the Celts, deeply canny shoppers?

 

[Cortez]

The Irish are like the Celts, deeply canny shoppers?

Like the celts? Who are the celts?

 

[Shady]

I wonder why vet fees are so much lower in other countries? Here (Ireland) small animal seems to be at least half of what you're all paying, and horse stuff even less. And no, it's not because vets are crap here.

Same here and my vets are amazing, and it's a modern fully staffed busy clinic, with all the newbies becoming partners after a few years.
Social contributions, taxes, insurance, etc are high in France, and yet I pay a fraction of the price uk vets charge
For example . Yesterday I took two cats in at the same time. Was in for half an hour , got 2x antibiotic meds for them, plus bottle of metacam . Cost was 52 euros
A month or so back my Siamese had 3 teeth taken out at specialist clinic , plus rehydration 131 euros
Before that , dog rushed in as emergency due to poisoning. In all afternoon and night on drip of various meds. 156 euros ( overnight cost was 22 euros)
There are no corporates around here, although I understand they are getting a foothold in other parts of France. I did read that many close because the French will not pay their ridiculous fees and just go and find another practice.

 

[Clodagh]

Like the celts? Who are the celts?

The Cornish. And therefore us just this side of the border. Sorry if that’s offended anyone, was a joke.

 

[nellietinker]

£92 for examination following suspected stroke and an anti sickness injection for a 10kg Whippet seemed a little excessive last Friday lunchtime!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

My brother has recently passed away and we were quoted a fee of £200.00 for the notice to be put in the obituary column of our local paper - that is £150.00 charged by the newspaper and £50.00 for the funeral directors to do it for us.

That is unbelievable, no justification for that much at all. I put an obituary in for Michael and it cost about £50 all in.

 

[StableMum]

We use Vets4Pets, I know they're not everyones cup of tea. Although we've only used them for routine stuff with the dogs, we always see the same 2 or 3 vets, and prices are reasonable.

Sadly they don't do OOH care, and when Toby was taken poorly a few weeks ago one night, it was £290, just to get him through the door at VetsNow.

Vets4Pets is not owned by one of the big corporates although they sound more corporate than many of the bought up practices that keep their original name. Each individual practice is owned by the vet/s that work there which is why you will always see the same 2 or 3 vets when you visit. Vets4Pets is now the only independently owned vets around where I live, every other one has been bought out but because they keep their original name many people don't realise.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Vets4Pets is not owned by one of the big corporates although they sound more corporate than many of the bought up practices that keep their original name. Each individual practice is owned by the vet/s that work there which is why you will always see the same 2 or 3 vets when you visit. Vets4Pets is now the only independently owned vets around where I live, every other one has been bought out but because they keep their original name many people don't realise.

I thought they were owned by Pets at home ?

 

[Maddie Moo]

I have to say I wasn’t overly impressed being charged just over £100 per rabbit for the Myxo RHD1 and RHD2 combi vaccine last year!

Previously it was £85 and the year before it was £75….

The cost of the vaccine from the provider is £38.99. I didn’t even mind the £85 as I considered that the cost of the vaccine and consultation fee on top!

Most of mine are in a health plan but my older bunnies are not so I pay outright for them.

Rabbit blood tests have also gone from £160 for a full panel to over £300. My vet doesn’t offer OOH so our provider that the vet uses charges £339 to see the vet before any treatment which is a bit of a shock to the system!

Edit - it was over £100 for the vaccine but I can’t remember the exact figure. Also I should say I’m very happy with my vet as they are excellent with rabbits, it was just the initial shock of the vaccine increase, especially as I had two vaccinated on the same day!

 

[Ditchjumper2]

I paid £503 for a small bitch spay including meds for afterwards and for hip and spine xrays. This was November. I didn't think that was bad.

However this was at an independent vets. Very experienced vets who all left main vets and have set up on their own.

 

[ester]

I thought they were owned by Pets at home

no, it's a franchise just based in PAH

 

[StableMum]

no, it's a franchise just based in PAH

Pets at Home do own Vets4Pets but each Vets4Pets practice is run on a Joint Venture Partnership model. Each practice is run by the vets who have become partners by buying into that practice. The aim over time to eventually owning the practice outright. They have clinical freedom and are independent to make their own practice based decisions.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I paid £503 for a small bitch spay including meds for afterwards and for hip and spine xrays. This was November. I didn't think that was bad.

However this was at an independent vets. Very experienced vets who all left main vets and have set up on their own.

We had our 24kg Lab spayed just before Christmas at an independent vet practice with multiple local surgeries at a cost of £350ish.. I think yours was expensive!

 

[Ditchjumper2]

We had our 24kg Lab spayed just before Christmas at an independent vet practice with multiple local surgeries at a cost of £350ish.. I think yours was expensive!

Oh ok fair enough with all the xrays too I thought it was ok but I guess it's all relative. It was definitely cheaper than most round here. Just been and checked its funny what you fogot lol. The spay was £265, 3 xrays £180 total 2 teeth removed too forgot that £37.50 plus a vet shirt as I hadn't got one her size. All Inc of vat.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

We bought a vet shirt, which we ended up not using as it too tight on her shoulders and we still had a bigger one for a different dog. She didn't need any work on her teeth, though!

 

[Keith_Beef]

It's fine to want fair pricing and even some standardization. Just tread carefully here.

From what I heard on the wireless this morning, a big reason for the enquiry is that many people have been complaining about the lack of information, failure to display pricing of routine services, pushing owners to have expensive and seemingly pointless tests and treatments.

At least one vet called the station to explain the situation from her point of view and a few listeners sent in messages praising vets who were particularly good at explaining costs in advance.

 

[ester]

m

Pets at Home do own Vets4Pets but each Vets4Pets practice is run on a Joint Venture Partnership model. Each practice is run by the vets who have become partners by buying into that practice. The aim over time to eventually owning the practice outright. They have clinical freedom and are independent to make their own practice based decisions.

makes note of joint venture partnership, I did know about them buying in steadily now you have reminded me . They are my closest exotics specialist.

 

[Redders]

I was shocked at the prices we were charged when Purdey had her mystery illness I have to say. Maybe it's me who is out of touch with prices but I did comment to Mr. L that I would never moan at the price of equine vets ever again (which is saying something)!

One of our visits: to have her temperature taken, a hands on exam and bloods taken it was just shy of £300.... is that normal? ETA this wasn't an emergency appointment, it was 2pm on a weekday

I’m generally keeping away from discussions about this at the moment for the sake of my mental health, and I haven’t ready any other replies as not scrolled so far yet so someone else may have done the same, but I’m going to break down the likely costs of this visit because I think part of the problem is not explaining what things cost individually. in house blood tests are more expensive than sending to the lab, the reasons being we have to pay to own and maintain the blood analysers (you need 5 separate bits of expensive kit as a minimum in order to run in house bloods, including the required analyser slides for the blood, each cost different amounts and there are many of them, they also need to be stored correctly etc), in house blood results are available in as little as 2 hours, and every time blood is run through them, the lab generates a fee charged to us. Our in-house standard profile is £235, so the bull of your appointment was the blood fee, a vet exam consult is £60

Sending a similar profile to the lab is 199, but results may take up to 7 days to come back

 

[Redders]

Wow I think that’s expensive! For reference I’m taking my dog to have his hips and elbows X-ray (for BVA scoring) at a specialist and it’s about £425 inc the £120 ish to send to BVA

Just a point on this, this isn’t really comparing like for like service.
X rays taken for scoring can be done under sedation which uses much less drugs and does not need such high level monitoring and recovery as a full anaesthetic. This is generally possible because the procedure is likely to not be painful, but if you are taking them for a problem noted then it likely will be painful and a sedated animal in pain will not be able to be positioned under sedation to get diagnostic x rays, plus is very unpleasant for the pet to be painfully manipulated. Diagnostic x rays for an issue will likely need more views (additional views will be charged per view due to the time it takes to reposition and to assess), which would increase the cost. Maybe yours were done under a full anaesthetic but In and out in 30 mins makes that less likely

 

[Redders]

There needs to be a standard price for prescriptions for a start. Standard prices for routine stuff like vacs etc.

I’m not against this at all, or even the review, but the current rules state, that we are NOT allowed to ask or know or enquire what our competitors charge because it removes competition and is classed as price fixing, thus removing consumer choice for shopping around. So some of this hooha is because of the original rules set by CMA for discussing and listing prices

 

[Redders]

From what I heard on the wireless this morning, a big reason for the enquiry is that many people have been complaining about the lack of information, failure to display pricing of routine services, pushing owners to have expensive and seemingly pointless tests and treatments.

At least one vet called the station to explain the situation from her point of view and a few listeners sent in messages praising vets who were particularly good at explaining costs in advance.

I haven’t seen the part of the release by CMA specifically about pushing for pointless tests and treatments? Could you please link that specific part please? I want to be prepared for my full day of consults tomorrow where I will inevitably face a lot of backlash and blame and guilt tripping.

I also would like to point out that no one, except for qualified vets, is qualified to say if a test is pointless. You can ask the qualified professional to explain why they feel it’s needed snd what benefit it will have, but you (general you, not specific) are not qualified to deem something pointless. And no, years of owning a species does not qualify. If you do not trust your vet professional to the point that you feel their recommendations are pointless then feel free to seek care anywhere else you like. (Again, general you, not specific) because as a vet, if you don’t trust me, I don’t want to treat your pet. My job isn’t to ‘convince’ you to believe me, you are the one paying for my professional advice, it’s up to you if you take it or not.

 

[Keith_Beef]

I haven’t seen the part of the release by CMA specifically about pushing for pointless tests and treatments? Could you please link that specific part please? I want to be prepared for my full day of consults tomorrow where I will inevitably face a lot of backlash and blame and guilt tripping.

I also would like to point out that no one, except for qualified vets, is qualified to say if a test is pointless. You can ask the qualified professional to explain why they feel it’s needed snd what benefit it will have, but you (general you, not specific) are not qualified to deem something pointless. And no, years of owning a species does not qualify. If you do not trust your vet professional to the point that you feel their recommendations are pointless then feel free to seek care anywhere else you like. (Again, general you, not specific) because as a vet, if you don’t trust me, I don’t want to treat your pet. My job isn’t to ‘convince’ you to believe me, you are the one paying for my professional advice, it’s up to you if you take it or not.

You seem to have taken my post as an attack on vets in general.

It was not intended as such, and if you read it again you'll see that I was reporting what I had heard on the wireless. Perhaps I could have dinner a better job of pointing out that some of the anecdotes were of owners who didn't see the point of certain tests or treatments...

You'll also see that there were messages from listeners who were praising vets who did a good job of communicating well.

 

[Redders]

You seem to have taken my post as an attack on vets in general.

It was not intended as such, and if you read it again you'll see that I was reporting what I had heard on the wireless. Perhaps I could have dinner a better job of pointing out that some of the anecdotes were of owners who didn't see the point of certain tests or treatments...

You'll also see that there were messages from listeners who were praising vets who did a good job of communicating well.

Not personally at all, and I pointed out it was a general ‘you’ and not you specifically. Many owners will say a test was pointless and expensive, but they don’t actually understand why the test was needed, vets should do a good job at explaining why, but people do need to trust their professional, if not then free market means they can go to someone they do trust.
If that’s what’s been heard in the media, then it shows how things can grow legs, because the CMA report I have read identified 5 key review points and none of those listed are for pointless tests/treatments, and if you had seen otherwise I would like to see it so I can understand it as well as I can.

 

[Boulty]

Shall read rest of thread some other time but re paracetamol & other human drugs there’s a load of prescribing rules vets are supposed to follow… there’s a licensed paracetamol / codeine product for dogs so if following the rules (& vets can get in trouble for not doing so) that should be prescribed in all situations that it’s suitable for unless there’s a legitimate reason not to. Vets are not allowed to recommend human products if a licensed alternative is available and even doing so when there isn’t can be dodgy ground (technically they should issue a written prescription if it’s something they don’t stock as a pharmacist shouldn’t sell to someone who says the meds are for their pet without it).

That said I have heard of cases where for whatever reason vet tells owner to buy a specific human product and give at a specific dose. Owner buys wrong product with wrong ingredient. Ingredient is not safe to use in that species. Animal ends up very poorly (& in some cases animals die or are PTS due to such errors). A real life example of this would be someone purchasing Calpol with Ibruprofen rather than Paracetamol (ibruprofen is toxic to dogs, paracetamol is not although it is highly toxic to cats & again I’ve heard of people sadly giving it to their cat for pain relief rather than going to vet or at least asking for advice & this does normally result in death unless recognised & treated VERY quickly). Some human meds can also contain things like Xylitol as a sweetener which is also toxic.

Where I work stocks & dispenses a safe xylitol free paracetamol suspension for these reasons. Yes it’s way more expensive than could be bought from Boots etc but the dosage will definitely be appropriate and it will definitely be the right ingredient without anything else potentially harmful in there.

 

[Auslander]

I had my final bill from my vet for Alf a few weeks ago. 2 visits - one was 2 vaccinations, and included a call out of £70 (she comes a very long way, so fine with that). The second 3 days later to pts included a call out fee of £81! I didn't have the fight left in me to challenge it, but it was a bit irritating. Not my vet btw - the practice she consults for since selling her own practice.

 

[Indy]

I paid £450 last month for an x ray of both knees, including a GA.

Just a point on this, this isn’t really comparing like for like service.
X rays taken for scoring can be done under sedation which uses much less drugs and does not need such high level monitoring and recovery as a full anaesthetic. This is generally possible because the procedure is likely to not be painful, but if you are taking them for a problem noted then it likely will be painful and a sedated animal in pain will not be able to be positioned under sedation to get diagnostic x rays, plus is very unpleasant for the pet to be painfully manipulated. Diagnostic x rays for an issue will likely need more views (additional views will be charged per view due to the time it takes to reposition and to assess), which would increase the cost. Maybe yours were done under a full anaesthetic but In and out in 30 mins makes that less likely

My vet did say about the manipulation etc when Bandit got booked in. I just guessed with the time, expertise, labour, drugs, diagnostics, aftercare it didn't feel so much of a gulp moment when they said how much it was.

 

[scats]

I’ve always said that equine vet fees are very reasonable compared to small animal, but the gap is getting even bigger.

My 3 dogs had their annual vaccinations toward the back end of last year. It cost nearly nearly £400. My 2 horses had theirs, and obviously the vet travelled to me. It cost £160.
Something needs to be done. People are going to start avoiding essential vet treatment.

I offer dog teeth cleaning. Without getting into an argument about this, I do only do it on healthy teeth with a slight plaque build up and if I feel anything is too far gone or there are signs of gum problems or dental disease I refer to a vet.
I get some dogs with minimum build up (think beautiful white teeth in young dogs, with minimum surface staining on maybe the canines, but healthy gums) whose owners come to me in a panic because at a recent vet visit for something unrelated they have been quoted up to £800 and the need for a GA to clear these or it risks the dogs future health. 9 times out of 10 I can clear the build up in less than ten minutes by simply holding a type of brush gently against the teeth and then wiping over the tooth with a towel.
A vet practice could do this for people on these type of dogs if they were so inclined.

I know that people are leaving animals with genuine dental problems because of the cost. There are dogs I have turned away who DO need veterinary intervention for their teeth, but I know they aren’t getting it.