Vet fees under review

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

The big mixed practice down the road wanted £120 for 60 danilon compared to £80+ online. Like, I get it’s convenient to pop down the road and grab the box, but that much extra to buy/store it on their shelves struck me as a bit excessive, but they still have you over a barrel by charging £15 for the prescription!

 

[ycbm]

Agreed, a friend was recently told by a local vets that it is their policy to make 100% mark up on all medication

That's not necessarily unreasonable. In retail when in worked in the sector, it was normal for the shop to pay only 33% of the price they sell the item for, a 200% markup. They have to pay staff to be in the shop, rent on the shop, rates, electric, tax ......

 

[MurphysMinder]

Just a point on this, this isn’t really comparing like for like service.
X rays taken for scoring can be done under sedation which uses much less drugs and does not need such high level monitoring and recovery as a full anaesthetic. This is generally possible because the procedure is likely to not be painful, but if you are taking them for a problem noted then it likely will be painful and a sedated animal in pain will not be able to be positioned under sedation to get diagnostic x rays, plus is very unpleasant for the pet to be painfully manipulated. Diagnostic x rays for an issue will likely need more views (additional views will be charged per view due to the time it takes to reposition and to assess), which would increase the cost. Maybe yours were done under a full anaesthetic but In and out in 30 mins makes that less likely

I think you meant to reply to my post as I mentioned 30 minutes . Yes my x rays were for scoring under sedation , Im guilty of assuming all hip x rays are for scoring, years of owning GSDs ! I have seen some crazy prices for this though.
I have a vet in the family and know how tough the job is, but it does seem that “some “ practices charges are getting scary .

 

[MurphysMinder]

The big mixed practice down the road wanted £120 for 60 danilon compared to £80+ online. Like, I get it’s convenient to pop down the road and grab the box, but that much extra to buy/store it on their shelves struck me as a bit excessive, but they still have you over a barrel by charging £15 for the prescription!

I think it has been explained that practices don’t have the buying power which is why online prices are cheaper . My daughter is an equine vet , she gives me a prescription for prascend as I can buy it cheaper online than her practice can buy it in.

 

[MurphysMinder]

That's not necessarily unreasonable. In retail when in worked in the sector, it was normal for the shop to pay only 33% of the price they sell the item for, a 200% markup. They have to pay staff to be in the shop, rent on the shop, rates, electric, tax ......

I worked in a clothing shop and the mark up was in excess of 100% .

 

[Sandstone1]

I think this review is much needed. Prices need to be more standard. In some cases it almost feels like vets think of a number and double it. I fully understand that its a business and profits have to made as well as covering overheads, however, there is so much variation between vets for the same service and procedure.
Out of hours fees can be massive. For example £300 to see a dog at 6.30 pm on a friday. Thats before you even get any medication.
There must be a issue for this review to be happening.
Its really a welfare issue as some people are leaving animals without treatment because they can not afford it. Yes, animals are a luxury but in some cases animals are really family and someones only companion.
The massive increase in costs mean that someone who could afford a pet a few years ago is now struggling.
I just hope the review is done fairly and quickly.
A standard prescription fee would be easy to implement surely and would give people more choice about buying meds on line.
Some vets charge £25 for a prescription and others £10.
There are two sides to each story. It just needs looking in too.

 

[Clodagh]

I think my vet is wonderful and I trust her far more than my GP. My dog’s health is also more important than my own.
I always get the meds direct from the vet, but I am thinking maybe for bravecto I’ll ask for a prescription. It feels wrong though as when I want a vet at 2am in an emergency viovet or whoever aren’t going to care or be there.

 

[Birker2020]

I wonder why vet fees are so much lower in other countries? Here (Ireland) small animal seems to be at least half of what you're all paying, and horse stuff even less. And no, it's not because vets are crap here.

some of the best vets come from Ireland.

 

[Birker2020]

There must be a issue for this review to be happening.
Its really a welfare issue as some people are leaving animals without treatment because they can not afford it. Yes, animals are a luxury but in some cases animals are really family and someones only companion.
The massive increase in costs mean that someone who could afford a pet a few years ago is now struggling.

I agree with this. Imagine the OAP who sits in the cold with a jumper and scarf because he can't afford to heat his home, or eat, most of his food goes to his dog, his loyal companion and only company at his side. His dog is his life and he can't afford to get treatment for whatever ails it.

Not everyone knows about the PDSA. We only know that if you can't afford a lawyer one will be appointed for you because we've heard that line hundreds of times in police dramas and films.
There isn't much info there about the PDSA. This is an eligibility checker https://www.pdsa.org.uk/pet-help-and-advice/eligibility

 

[ycbm]

I don't think standardised pricing is what's needed, but published pricing for standard stuff, so people know what things will cost before they choose who to buy them from. There's no point moving vets to save £10 on a prescription if the annual health check to ensure the animal is alive and the prescription is still appropriate before prescribing costs £20 more, for example. And it would be good not to have to ring round multiple vets just to find out the best price to neuter a cat (which in my experience varies wildly).
.

 

[Sandstone1]

I agree with this. Imagine the OAP who sits in the cold with a jumper and scarf because he can't afford to heat his home, or eat, most of his food goes to his dog, his loyal companion and only company at his side. His dog is his life and he can't afford to get treatment for whatever ails it.

Not everyone knows about the PDSA. We only know that if you can't afford a lawyer one will be appointed for you because we've heard that line hundreds of times in police dramas and films.
There isn't much info there about the PDSA. This is an eligibility checker https://www.pdsa.org.uk/pet-help-and-advice/eligibility

A pet food bank has recently been set up where I live and people have been asking for horse feed on there. The cost of living crisis is really hitting some now.

 

[teacups]

I worked in a clothing shop and the mark up was in excess of 100% .

It's not a good comparison because in a clothes shop the only profitable activity is selling the clothes.

You are not charged to enter the shop in the first place, and if you ask for advice you are also not charged.

I think that if vet fees and charges are so significantly lower in other European countries it signifies something is very wrong. The UK is a much more low-tax, low-wage cost economy than e.g. France.

ETA Birker, the PDSA does not operate throughout the country, and the eligibility criteria are very strict, or used to be. People on income-related benefits only.

 

[Sandstone1]

The other problem is that even if you get prescriptions to buy on line you still have to see the vet every six months for a health check in order to get the prescription. Im not saying thats wrong but it will eat up any savings you make on buying on line.

 

[meleeka]

The other problem is that even if you get prescriptions to buy on line you still have to see the vet every six months for a health check in order to get the prescription. Im not saying thats wrong but it will eat up any savings you make on buying on line.

You have to see the vet every 6 months in either case. It’s the law if they prescribe medication.

 

[Birker2020]

The other problem is that even if you get prescriptions to buy on line you still have to see the vet every six months for a health check in order to get the prescription. Im not saying thats wrong but it will eat up any savings you make on buying on line.

Yes unless you buy as much as you can within the six months, with the one practice for Bailey I used to purchase two boxes within the six month period but they used to price match the cheapest website I could find, so they were 64p a sachet at the time!

This current practice has written 200 on the prescription form. First of all they wrote 180 on the prescription but when I rang to explain that the pet medicine website I was using was a lot more expensive for single sachets of bute (to make up the 80) they changed it to 200 for me so I could buy 2 x 100 box.

 

[Sandstone1]

You have to see the vet every 6 months in either case. It’s the law if they prescribe medication.

I know, that is what I mean!

 

[Jenko109]

This bugs me.

My local vet will only provide a subscription for two boxes of the drug my dog needs. This equates to two months worth. They charge £24 for a subscription.

I have a mobile vet (who I will use for this dog once my insurance stops paying out at the end of the year) who only charges £10 for a subscription and allows me six months worth of drugs.

 

[ester]

How would standardised pricing work with competition laws?! Corporate practices are already closing because the competition authority has got involved in a certain area.
Mostly I'm thankful that we have many options for vet services within a short distance, and great OOH cover. It would probably be beneficial to have some costs listed/easy to find but so much of the work is bespoke (hence wide estimates) that's not going to be possible for a lot of things.

 

[ester]

I agree with this. Imagine the OAP who sits in the cold with a jumper and scarf because he can't afford to heat his home, or eat, most of his food goes to his dog, his loyal companion and only company at his side. His dog is his life and he can't afford to get treatment for whatever ails it.

Not everyone knows about the PDSA. We only know that if you can't afford a lawyer one will be appointed for you because we've heard that line hundreds of times in police dramas and films.
There isn't much info there about the PDSA. This is an eligibility checker https://www.pdsa.org.uk/pet-help-and-advice/eligibility

That's more a social services problem, not a vets problem. However vets do have contacts/options can signpost to agencies that can help if said old person made contact/visited vet.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Reading through this the main thing that jumps out is how much the prices very across the country.
I think i pay £70 for a consult now. That is actually more than my horse vet charges with call out for a pre-booked appointment. I guess you can look at that two ways, My horse vet doesn't have premises to pay for, she is completely mobile. It still seems mad to me that its cheaper to sit at home and wait for a vet than drive to an appointment though.

I was talking to a friend who works at a vets, In this case equine but she was telling me about mixing up their own mud fever cream which sells at £70 ish a tub. The ingredients were shockingly cheap, bar one i was unsure about and she said was sourced from a small animal vet who charged way over the odds for it.

 

[Morwenna]

I would love to see the profit margins involved as I know a number of small, independent vets who were taken over by large corporates as they just could not afford to stay open.
100% mark up on drugs, particularly the lower cost drugs, is not unreasonable. As was mentioned elsewhere, they have dispensing costs that supermarkets don’t have and they do not have the buying power of big corporates or supermarkets and so pay more for the drugs in the first place.
A CMA review will do nothing to standardise pricing - that would be classed as price fixing. It will be about transparency of costs and having the information upfront.
Out of hours care is expensive but that is because it costs a lot to staff out of hours, even with fewer staff, and you have far fewer patients so the cost per patient is a lot higher and that has to be recovered.
Having pets is a luxury. There’s no getting away from that. I am well aware of the importance they have to people, myself included, but people need to consider the costs of food, insurance / vets fees before they take on an animal. I know situations change and unexpected things come up but most of the complaints about vets being unaffordable are for routine care.

 

[rara007]

Another friend £2.5k for cataract surgery.

I don’t suppose you can PM where is offering that? That’s exceptional value so would be useful to have as an option.

 

[StableMum]

I think my vet is wonderful and I trust her far more than my GP. My dog’s health is also more important than my own.
I always get the meds direct from the vet, but I am thinking maybe for bravecto I’ll ask for a prescription. It feels wrong though as when I want a vet at 2am in an emergency viovet or whoever aren’t going to care or be there.

Don't feel bad about asking for a prescription. My daughter runs her own practice and always offers a prescription is she knows it can be bought cheaper online.

 

[AmyMay]

I think my vet is wonderful and I trust her far more than my GP. My dog’s health is also more important than my own.

I would also like to state for the record, and for the vets on here, that my vet is also wonderful and I trust her implicitly. She also doesn’t roll her eyes at me when I say ‘so, I had a Google and……’.

 

[meleeka]

I don’t suppose you can PM where is offering that? That’s exceptional value so would be useful to have as an option.

It would have been a referral I think as she went to a local independent vet. That was for one eye. The conversation didn’t go any further because she woulda’t be able to afford it for a 14 year old dog anyway.

 

[paisley]

I would suggest part of owners not wanting 'pointless' tests is the shift in attitude in some vet practices that I've noticed over the years. The senior vets when asked would reply with 'this is what I would do' , compared to more recent 'these are your options' and 'I can't tell you what is best' type of consult.

I understand why, due to the claim and sue culture we now have, but as an owner, I found it instilled more trust if the vet implied that’s what they would do in my shoes.
Its not vet bashing, I've seen the exhausting process of vet training first hand and have friends who couldn’t take the utter grind of daily practice. I'm also fine with it as a business, and not pet NHS.

But there is a move towards it becoming impersonal and if that is the case, then standardized fees would be welcomed. As would significantly better working conditions for vets.

 

[tristars]

we use 4 equine hospitals, because some vets get on very well with certain horses for different procedures, they seem cheaper than the dog vet !

and are very dedicated, caring enthusiastic, even affectionate towards the horses, mind i have met the other sort as well sadly

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I found an insurance website that sums up the German fee regulations in a "short and sweet" way. I really didn't mind it while living there. Yes, there was always a huge uproar when things changed. I do think that a lot of people feel that owning a pet is a right vs a privilege or luxury and often don't realize that vets deserve to make a decent salary. It's also a very demanding profession.

Yes, things should not get out of control or to outrageous, I agree on that. Inconsistency and lack of transparency is rightfully frustrating. Whenever I've lived I've always been able to get some sort of decent estimate prior to services.

Maybe something similar to the German system could be considered? Translated short snip from a summary:

What is the Fee Schedule for Veterinarians (GOT) and what does it regulate?​

Veterinary practices are bound to a state-determined, nationwide fee schedule. The aim of this fee schedule is to ensure a nationwide uniform price level for veterinary services. Competition between practices should be based exclusively on the quality of the service provided and not on the cheapest price. In addition, pet owners should be protected from excessive bills for examinations and treatment. Veterinarians are not allowed to go under or over the specified amounts. Net prices (excluding 19 percent VAT) are listed in the veterinary fee schedule. The costs for materials, medication and other third-party costs are not included.

Grading of fee rates​

The new fee schedule for veterinarians lists a total of 1,006 positions. These are staggered in the documents of the Federal Veterinary Association according to one to three times the rate for easier handling. Because if certain criteria are met, some or all items on the veterinary bill can be increased several times. Up to four times the rate can be charged for operations between 6 p.m. and 8 a.m. or on weekends and public holidays. There is also an emergency service flat rate of 50 euros net (since 2020). Likewise, practices in city locations with very high rental costs or designated specialist clinics may charge an increased fee.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I would suggest part of owners not wanting 'pointless' tests is the shift in attitude in some vet practices that I've noticed over the years. The senior vets when asked would reply with 'this is what I would do' , compared to more recent 'these are your options' and 'I can't tell you what is best' type of consult.

I understand why, due to the claim and sue culture we now have, but as an owner, I found it instilled more trust if the vet implied that’s what they would do in my shoes.
Its not vet bashing, I've seen the exhausting process of vet training first hand and have friends who couldn’t take the utter grind of daily practice. I'm also fine with it as a business, and not pet NHS.

But there is a move towards it becoming impersonal and if that is the case, then standardized fees would be welcomed. As would significantly better working conditions for vets.

It makes sense why they're becoming impersonal. You do have to "separate" or compartmentalize things in that profession. Also, as you mentioned, there's the sue culture.

In addition to that, there's just this huge phenomenon of people taking zero responsibility. It's always someone else's fault. You can see it at times in this thread even. The "responsibility should fall on someone else" runs rampant in society. So I can totally understand if a vet seems impersonal nowadays. As long as objective isn't mistaken for impersonal. I can respect someone being objective about matters.

 

[sugarpony]

part of the problem is that vet practices aren’t actually allowed to compare fees to one another, hence fees for procedures aren’t usually published online. It’s supposedly to stop a practice setting up and undercutting all the more established practices, but I’m not sure it actually works that way…

And as some people have said, there are all sorts of rules around what a vet can and can’t prescribe. But basically if there’s an animal version (usually more expensive) then they have to prescribe that one. If rules aren’t followed then they’re risking their whole career. And similarly, you can buy drugs cheaper online because most suppliers offer special deals if you buy in bulk, either discounts or rebates, often significantly cheaper (someone told me once they get 50% off a drug if they buy enough!). A small independent practice doesn’t have this buying power, and has to buy at full cost from a wholesaler. If people aren’t buying medication from them, they have to make money by charging more for services that people can’t get elsewhere.

I think it’s a topic that’s a lot more complicated than people think! And while I agree with some things, I think it’s important to remember that it’s mostly not the vets themselves that are making these decisions. It’s not their fault, they’re just trying their best in a very difficult set of circumstances.