Vet permission - they dont pay the bill

My farrier is out on Monday to see him, I am trying to get a copy of the x rays for him, but so far they will only let him go to practice to see them????/

Which is why I asked in my earlier post about if i do have a 2nd vet practice opinion will they use the 1st ones xrays or wont they be allowed them?

The vet has not suggested nerve blocks, as he is (the horse) "strongly indicating an issue with the hoof testers" - posh speak for it hurts here !

I just have no experinace of severe bruising in a horse so I have no idea how long it takes to improve etc - so any pointers please let me know
 
If they are digital they should email them to you if you ask my vet does this.
If they old style one taken on plates I think they will want to keep them .
I think a new practice will want to do their own that's what's happened to me when I sought a second opinion.so I had two lots that showed... Nothing
Have you sought a second opinion yet ? You need to chose the right person ask horses people you trust if you not sure who the best person is.
 
My vets will email x-rays to myself or my farrier, I agree that a new practice will want to do their own rather than use ones that may not be clear or of the angle required.
If he responds to the testers your farrier is probably best placed to help, severe bruising can take a long while to come out especially if in the heel or near the pedal bone/toe, as he has had mudfever to contend with also he could be a bit low generally and finding it difficult to fight infection.
 
I'm really sorry about your horse :( I would second the poster who suggested a referral to one of the big specialist equine vet hospitals/universities if you can afford it and he is fit to transport. You are clearly getting no-where with your vet and if there was a fantastic one you could easily change to nearby this would have already been done. However, sadly not everything is easily fixable with the best possible care. We all expect modern medicine to help quickly and easily, but sometimes it simply can't. I do think by what you have said the care your horse has received from your vet has not been the best though OP :(

I agree with a lot of what Mithras has said and understand OP's frustrations. I think the law is an ass a lot of the time and a lot of the old legislation is outdated. To be honest there are some laws I obey to the letter and others I don't - everyone had broken the law sometimes - we are all selective about what we do and do not obey. Anyone here downloaded a movie off the internet or even crossed the road while the green man was red??? I have had very well respected physios massage/routine check my fit competition horses (including one physio who does British team horses) and no vet permission was mentioned. If I was was being asked to have a vet 'exaimine' my sound, healthy horse for permission to get the physio - and pay for this privillage - I wouldn't be best pleased. A telephone call by the physio to confim all is well as a formality I am very happy with :)
 
The only facts I know are:-

Horse got abcess... vet visit
Horse got mudfever.... vet visit - antibiotics and cream
Horse still being treated - more cream
Horse still the same - more cream
Requested 2nd course of antibiotics - Refused
Horse still not picking up from mud fever
Vet re-visit Thur- due vaciantions too - told it was ok for him to be done - did suggest we wait till he was "better" - double dose antibiotics
Fri - horse terribly lame - vet visit - think its his mudfever/abcess
Sat - horse still terribly lame - vet visit whilst i was at work - she did not know
Sun- sat and cried at my brave boy, visit from farrier - could not find anything
Mon- demenaded vet visit - came and was a wait and see
Tue - awful - wanted to kill the world !
Wed- vet visit - they now think its an abcess - politice till Fri then x ray
Thur - awful nothing on poltice
Fri- x ray - nothing on x ray or poltice
Sat - Just totally fed up !
 
Gingerwitch said:
The only facts I know are:-

Horse got abcess... vet visit
Horse got mudfever.... vet visit - antibiotics and cream
Horse still being treated - more cream
Horse still the same - more cream
Requested 2nd course of antibiotics - Refused
Horse still not picking up from mud fever
Vet re-visit Thur- due vaciantions too - told it was ok for him to be done - did suggest we wait till he was "better" - double dose antibiotics
Fri - horse terribly lame - vet visit - think its his mudfever/abcess
Sat - horse still terribly lame - vet visit whilst i was at work - she did not know
Sun- sat and cried at my brave boy, visit from farrier - could not find anything
Mon- demenaded vet visit - came and was a wait and see
Tue - awful - wanted to kill the world !
Wed- vet visit - they now think its an abcess - politice till Fri then x ray
Thur - awful nothing on poltice
Fri- x ray - nothing on x ray or poltice
Sat - Just totally fed up !
Click to expand...

Crap
Sometimes wait and see is all there is .
Do you have a idea for a suitable vet for another opinion .
I have seen a horse presenting with an abbcess that everyone thought looked like a broken shoulder.
The relief when we found the abbcess was huge.
I hope the farrier can help.
 
Gingerwitch said:
The only facts I know are:-

Horse got abcess... vet visit
Horse got mudfever.... vet visit - antibiotics and cream
Horse still being treated - more cream
Horse still the same - more cream
Requested 2nd course of antibiotics - Refused
Horse still not picking up from mud fever
Vet re-visit Thur- due vaciantions too - told it was ok for him to be done - did suggest we wait till he was "better" - double dose antibiotics
Fri - horse terribly lame - vet visit - think its his mudfever/abcess
Sat - horse still terribly lame - vet visit whilst i was at work - she did not know
Sun- sat and cried at my brave boy, visit from farrier - could not find anything
Mon- demenaded vet visit - came and was a wait and see
Tue - awful - wanted to kill the world !
Wed- vet visit - they now think its an abcess - politice till Fri then x ray
Thur - awful nothing on poltice
Fri- x ray - nothing on x ray or poltice
Sat - Just totally fed up !
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised you're so down and upset. I've no words of wisdom, but I would say that some schools of thought prefer not to use antibiotics with an abscess as it can prevent the abscess from developing and bursting, and movement is often preferred in order to encourage the horse to burst it himself. Obviously if you think there is a possible fracture then movement wouldn't be good.

I know that severe bruising can also take ages to come out. I wonder if the mud fever is a reaction to any infection going on in the hoof?

I think an abscess/bruising could still be a possibility and I'd carry on with the poulticing or tubbing for a few days, making sure it covers right over the coronet band in case anything is ready to pop there. Abscesses can grumble on for weeks.

I think as hard as it is at the moment I'd give the horse more time with pain relief and see what happens over the next week. If no improvement then I'd seek another vet.
 
I was aware that the anitbiotics can supress an abcess. But at that moment in time the mud fever was the more sever issue - it is now 5 weeks later, 3 courses on antibiotics and 6 tubes of cream even starting to clear up.

The cracked hooves are all good bar one - and that is a squiggey mess

The near side fore - is now my biggest problem

Now please note we went from abcess to full blown mud fever in less than 12 hours - it almost feels like it should be a neglect case...
 
Gingerwitch said:
The only facts I know are:-

Horse got abcess... vet visit
Horse got mudfever.... vet visit - antibiotics and cream
Horse still being treated - more cream
Horse still the same - more cream
Requested 2nd course of antibiotics - Refused
Horse still not picking up from mud fever
Vet re-visit Thur- due vaciantions too - told it was ok for him to be done - did suggest we wait till he was "better" - double dose antibiotics
Fri - horse terribly lame - vet visit - think its his mudfever/abcess
Sat - horse still terribly lame - vet visit whilst i was at work - she did not know
Sun- sat and cried at my brave boy, visit from farrier - could not find anything
Mon- demenaded vet visit - came and was a wait and see
Tue - awful - wanted to kill the world !
Wed- vet visit - they now think its an abcess - politice till Fri then x ray
Thur - awful nothing on poltice
Fri- x ray - nothing on x ray or poltice
Sat - Just totally fed up !
Click to expand...

That whole scenario is just cr*p to have just gone through. I've been through episodes like this in the past and know from experience what a nightmare mix of frustration and anxiety it is knowing the 'professionals' you are paying haven't a genuine clue what's wrong and your poor animal is suffering in the mean while. Unfortunately some things are difficult to pin-point and diagnose, although it does sound as if you've had a fair number of inconclusive results back which isn't helping anyone. Poor you and poor horse. Sending vibes that he starts picking up soon. ((( Hug )))
 
Many ((((((HUGS)))) for you and your horse, sounds like a crap vet practise and I know after nearly having Lenny put down several weeks ago following colic attack on vets advice, so have changed vets. Cann't believe some of the answers on here. Just follow your instincts, as you know your horse better than anybody else, and am surprised you need vets permission to get your horse a massage?????
 
Bad but good I hope.

Horse in obvious trouble this morning - refusing to great me at the door - had to take his breakie to him to stop him stressing, even though he was calling very very reluctant to walk and grunts each time he moves.

Front leg (the one were trying to suss out what is going on with) he is dishing out very badly.

Blacksmith coming today, back lady coming to look but just to give her opinon - and when hubby wakes up ! I am asking if we can get a 2nd vet out today, but the charge will be HUGE as they want travel time.
 
Gingerwitch said:
Stupid question - what about the x rays - will I be able to get a copy of them? or will I have to use a new practices x rays? Would a vet cover up a mistake ? honest question ?
...
He was whickering when he saw me this morn, and every time he took a step he took a grunt - it made me cry.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know the answer to that - but I would say you have a strong case for getting hold of the X-rays for a new vet - you paid for them.
As others say, find out if they are digital.

Horrible as it is, if he is in pain he will be protecting it from further injury, so its the best way to keep him, but I know its heartbreaking :(

Gingerwitch said:
My farrier is out on Monday to see him, I am trying to get a copy of the x rays for him, but so far they will only let him go to practice to see them????

Which is why I asked in my earlier post about if i do have a 2nd vet practice opinion will they use the 1st ones xrays or wont they be allowed them?

The vet has not suggested nerve blocks, as he is (the horse) "strongly indicating an issue with the hoof testers" - posh speak for it hurts here !

I just have no experinace of severe bruising in a horse so I have no idea how long it takes to improve etc - so any pointers please let me know
Click to expand...

In my humble opinion I would say they are right about the nerve blocks, if the horse is saying "its painful HERE!" Nerve blocks won't help and my lameness vet told us of enough horror stories about nerve blocked horses - the pain thing, if they can't feel the bit that hurts and they go sound on it, if it is a compound fracture they risk completely shattering it, so it is contraindicated if you think there could be a fracture. Frustratingly for you the hoof is the hardest and most expensive place to diagnose exactly what's going on in there, as things like ultrasound just can't get past the hoof wall. Let's hope its an abcess. I bet when it bursts you'll be the most relieved person ever to see pus ;)

Hollycatt said:
I'm really sorry about your horse :( I would second the poster who suggested a referral to one of the big specialist equine vet hospitals/universities if you can afford it and he is fit to transport.
Click to expand...

Sometimes they do VERY good rates at the teaching ones (Leahurst for example) if they want the students to have a look at it. The issue is obviously is it safe for your horse to travel, and I suspect it isn't, for the whole fracture at risk of shattering thing I mentioned earlier in this post, but do check with a vet.
 
Farrier could not get to practice until tomorrow to see them - back lady had to postpone until tomorrow too aghghgghgh

Suggested to farrier I get a new vet practice out tomorrow to see my boy and he said no - leave him to do what the Vet has asked now (360 turn around since Friday now! - Friday they did not want shoes fitted - due to the pain it could inflict !) spoke to vet this morn and told him he was worse and really dishing his poorly leg and now have asked for "egg bars" - and you wonder why i am getting so fed up !

Farrier is going to check him over, look for abcess, fit equipak if necessary and egg bars - we double checked with vets about lami - and that was a defiante NO.

Only good news is that he is eating "nice" things well - not too much hay but he is still gobbling up his dinner and any treats that may go his way - like the banna he had me bend down and feed him tonight becuase he did not want to get up.

He definalty is not fit to travel anywhere - i wondered if he was fit enought to walk the 8 strides between my two horses stables whilst i mucked him out for the 2nd time tonight- but a rattle of some pony nuts sent him in the right direction.

I just hope it is an abcess - surely any bruising would be subsiding by now?
 
Really sorry your horse is still in a lot of pain OP :( I think you need to draw the line now. Contact the practice manager of your vets for a meeting. Get a referral to a top clinic and talk to them. If the horse currently is not fit enough to transport get the case notes sent over and see if they can work with your current vets and get additional tests done (the basics seem not to have been covered if you want my honest opinion :eek: ). Having their work scrutinised by an expert (or the threat of it) may get a rocket up their **** and get something done about your poor horse. I have heard some companies can transport in slings if need be. The bottom line is your horse is suffering and you need to find a solution. I know you are trying really hard and it is **** when the experts you rely on are letting you and your horse down :(
 
Sorry to hear your prob's.(I havent read all the posts but i think i get the jist of it!)I noticed the vet is saying a definate no to laminitis,i had a very simular situation & my vet refused to believe she had laminitis as it was feb,she was on limited turnout not overweight etc. My gut feeling was that it was but i trusted my vet & took his word as gospel! How stupid was i .... i went for a second opinion and to my horror she had laminitis caused by cushings,she was only 11 years old & by this stage her pedal bone had sunk big time! She too was in immense pain couldnt walk,wouldnt drink/eat etc We lost her sadly but oh how i have learnt & will always question from now on whther it be doctors ,vets or other professionals. Please please get a second opinion from a equine specialist vet who is top of his game if you can.I wish you all the luck in the world getting a proper diagnosis.PS:With regards the xrays if it is the same as in Dentistry your new vet should be able to contact your old vet & request to see the radiographs although they will have to return them to your old practice (as they remain the property of the practice for X amount of years!)or if done digitally they should just copy & send.Please dont worry about upsettting your old vet etc your horse is the most important thing here.xx
 
Sorry if this has been mentioned, but reading something the other day and thought of this - bite and over-reaction from an adder bite? Can produce same symptoms as a fracture and if horse reacts to it can cause outward symptoms like mud feveresque rash, heat, swelling, severe lameness etc. Is his overall temp up too?
 
op the vet cant refuse to give you xrays, when i got nowhere with my vet i went into the practice and asked for my horses file invluding xrays, i told them i was going to get a second opinion. IME second opinion vet did not even take into account prev vet xrays, said they were crap. they did a new set and found the problem.

i really hope you get a solution soon
 
I think after all that I'd want to shoot the vet, never mind the poor horse:eek:

Gingerwitch, change vets as soon as humanly possible, for the sake of the horse's health and your own sanity. Horrible mess to be in. Best wishes x
 
Vets really do have more important things to worry about like their phone line being clear for colic or fracture calls to get through. Than to invent unnecessary line clogging!!! Mud fever can take months to clear in bad cases and I would use very dilute hibiscrub in cold water and dry legs thoroghly afterwards. Yes fuciderm does come in small tubes but there is no reason why you cant have more than one at a time but needs to be used sparingly. I would rather see a little blood on my horse's leg if it means I have got the scabs off so the cream can get to the skin and do its job. Mud fever can cause lameness and should you really be having his back manipulated if he is as crippled as you say I think I would get the legs sorted first. Keratex mud powder is wonderfull for prevention once he is better. I am very wary of greasy crems as I think water and dirt can get trapped in and cause just as many problems.
 
Gingerwitch said:
Still as lame as hell today - oh by the way did I tell you i had been told to poltice for 2 days Wed, Thur and it was took off on Friday.... now worried to death that the poltice would have had worse effects on an already possibly weak hoof.

If it is a "bruise" would I not see some improvement in a week ?, could a break elsewhere show us a hoof problems - what happens if two things are going on and the bruise on the sole is just because he has had the hoof testers on so many times by so many people.

I do not know which way to turn anymore - I am even thinking that the vets may have seen something and are not telling me ! stuipid I know, but now i have been told not to even take him out the stable to muck off, when last satruday i was being made to force him to walk for 10 mins twice a day
Click to expand...

My friend who is a well recommended equine vet has a pony with an x.rayed non fractured foot. Believed to have a bruise foot has been on box rest for 2 weeks poulticed for 1. They do not seem alarmed by this. I am sure pedal osteoitis would have shown up on x.ray. And by law x.rays have to be filed for I forget the exact lenght of time it is around 5/7 years.
 
As a physio myself, I just thought I would post my thoughts...

I request the details of my clients vets when I arrange an appointment and I send a consent form to the vet to sign. I choose to do it this way, but it IS a legal requirement to get vet permission before treatment for any chartered physio's. I have only been declined permission for one client as they hadn't actually seen the horse. However I managed to resolve this by liaising with the vets.

I think it is personal choice as to how the Physio obtains vet permission, so maybe find another one who can do it directly through the vets??
 
GW has started another thread with an update on her boy.Worth reading before posting anymore on this one.Big hugs neeeded.xx
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top