Veterans- Am I alone?

silvershadow81

silvershadow81

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I just wondered at what age everyone considered a horse to be a veteran, and why?

This year I decided to show my 26 year old with SSADL, we have had a great summer, the shows have been fab and it is lovely to see so many horses looking so well. My favourite was a 28 year old, who was still moving like a 10 year old and still looked great.

For those not familiar with this showing series, the age categories are split to ensure fair results:

Pre Veteran (15-18 years)
Veteran (19-23 years)
Veteran Plus (23 years and over)

The 1st and 2nd from each class then goes forward to a Championship, of which you need to win (one for in-hand, one for ridden, so two go through at each show)

After attending a number of these shows, it was becoming clear that once in the Championships, the younger horses were always winning. I do understand that a 15 year old is probably going to have more of a WOW factor than a 26 year old, but then I think to still have an older horse sound, ridden, looking great and out competing needs to count for something?

I wasn't sure what the overall qualifications would be until all results were posted recently, and found that put of 29 horses going to Olympia, only 3 were Veteran Plus horses, 16 were Pre-veterans and 10 veterans. This means that those with horses 23 years and over only have 10% chance of qualifying, compared to 55% (we need to attend at least 5 more shows for the same chance, not ideal for the 'true' veteran!)

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One of the areas judges is 'Suppleness for age'. I have seen 15 year olds receive 19/20, when a very sound and well moving 28 year old has been given 10/20? This criteria does not seem to count in the Championships either?

I just wondered what others thoughts were? As an association 'representing' the older horse it is a shame that so little older horses have made it to Olympia and therefore are not represented, I would want to see more people seeing how well older horses look and highlight that once they reach 15, there is still so much more you can do with them.

I have emailed them to ask if it is something they can maybe consider reviewing for next year, I am hoping for a positive response.
 
These days I don't think horses under 20 are really veterans, Just look at the ages of some of the GP horses and 3 and4* eventers! i've just noticed that BD is going to do a veteran class for horses born before 1999 and for veteran riders aged over 55. I don't think being 55 is that old either these days! However, on the positive side, how lucky you are to have a 26 year old still happily competing and doing well but I doubt you'll get them to change the rules!
 
I wish you luck and agree with what you say.On another level when I went to Sovereign Quarter horses for some western lessons my first ride was aged 26 years and still going strong.Good breeding, good care and good training I think.Love the idea of the aged 55 and over veteran classes.
 
This doesnt take into account how many more enter the younger classes, a winner of a class of 25 is likely to be better than the winner of a class of 3. Not nesisarily of course but needs to be taken into consideration.
 
mjcssjw2 said:
interesting isn't it, whenever i do the veteran class its always the oldest horse that wins.
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Or the smallest child leading a tiny pony! I was in the ring with a very nice arab mare which had a suspiciously chipper stride and bounce. It was apparently 30 something and not surprisingly won and qualified as a result for the local championship. I mentioned it a couple of weeks later to someone in my local tack shop who it turned out had been a previous owner and it wasn't even 26!
 
I have thought for a while that it needs reviewing. Maybe with different ranges for horses and for ponies

Plenty of the ponies in the younger class are out competing in open classes too and you'd be hard pressed to pick those out amongst the younger ponies
 
Glad BD are introducing veteran classes, although 1999 means they also agree veteran at 15 years old!

I'm not expecting a total change in the rules, just some acceptance that maybe it could be considered. If they could look to put through a certain % from each age category as currently it isn't even close. I think when something is set up to represent something, there needs to be a fair representation, with no discrimination. I appreciate I'm probably onto a loosing battle though.

rara007 I do take on your point, there are always going to be more pre-veterans around, these classes are going to be larger, the association will also make more money from bigger entries, but these do have another 12 years to go to be on par with the VPlus ones.

The ages of the horses affiliated to SSADL are all checked and confirmed by their passports, you are issued a bridle number to indicate age to the judge, so I like to think that doesn't happen (although, in this case it wouldn't help you anyway!)

(Maybe I should re-register my 26 year old as a 15 year old??!)

This was her this year, showing at 26:
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(sorry its sideways!)

We also do the ridden classes:
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I really enjoy getting out and about, and she LOVES still going to shows, so don't want to stop, winning isn't the be-all and end-all, I would just feel happier if those of us trying VERY hard to keep these older horses going could have the same chances as the younger ones. (My horse was still going XC at 22!)
 
Our local riding club show gives a prize for the oldest combination in their veteran showing class. I thought I had an excellent chance of winning both as I'm no longer young and the old boy could really strut his stuff in the show ring. However when we went forward to give our show, my very elderly TB took exception to the judge's rather large hat and reversed at speed almost depositing me on the floor. It was very embarrassing as we nearly careered through the rope out of the ring scattering spectators as we went. He may be old (now retired) but he's still quite spirited
 
I totally agree Silvershadow. From what you say it definitely seems the older horses are discriminated against. Yours is absolutely magnificent and a real tribute to your care. Yes try entering her as a 15 YO next time and see if you win! :)
 
I have 4 that are classed as a veteran. Two at 18 ,one at 20 and my little mare at 24.

The only one that is really retired from competition is my 20 yr old and that is because she has Navicular. My 24 yr old is still doing Endurance races and this year has won both races she has entered. Also for the last 2years she has won the veteran Arab Marathon. She is as lively and supple (on no supplements ) as she HS always been.

For fun I did a veteran class ( in hand) at a local show she was beaten into third place by two much younger horses (16yr olds) neither looked as free in their trot as she did.

I would say that 18 is the starting age for a veteran. Many of these are still competing ,some at a high level.
 
Ah but what you haven't taken into consideration in the Olympia Qualifiers is that most of them have designated winners before the year even starts! I have found that Veteran showing is so, so much more facey and predictable than any other type of showing!

They used to have the rule that you could only qualify for Olympia every other year to give a new fresh set of faces a chance - until 1 person wanted to go every year to win 3 on the bounce - so they changed the rules and she won 3 Olympia's on the bounce ...

Don't take it to heart! The judges at the Area Olympia Qualifiers have been told who is to win before they even step in the ring!
 
EKW said:
Ah but what you haven't taken into consideration in the Olympia Qualifiers is that most of them have designated winners before the year even starts! I have found that Veteran showing is so, so much more facey and predictable than any other type of showing!

They used to have the rule that you could only qualify for Olympia every other year to give a new fresh set of faces a chance - until 1 person wanted to go every year to win 3 on the bounce - so they changed the rules and she won 3 Olympia's on the bounce ...

Don't take it to heart! The judges at the Area Olympia Qualifiers have been told who is to win before they even step in the ring!
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^^^^ This.

I did the olympia qualifiers with Lucy. I got through the first round and was so excited to get to the next round (The one where you actualy qualified for olympia) I never expected to win but i was looking forward to a great day out and a fair chance. I took the day off work, hired a horsebox and paid my entry fee for both the inhand and ridden which for me was almost a weeks wages.

I did the inhand class and the judge hardly looked at us. (I wasn't to bothered as we were rubbish at inhand showing anyway ;) ) But I went in the ridden class ready to strut our stuff. I rode Lucy round and she was feeling great. I was so proud of her. Then came time for the judges to call us into the line up. The judge was calling everyone in and I could hear her saying to the steward things like "The bay hunter" "the chestnut riding horse" "the lovely Dressage horse" we were pulled in last and I heard the judge say "Oh and the chestnut thing" My heart fell but I thought I would continue undetured. The judges walked up the lineup came over to me and told me Lucy was lame and I shouldn't be riding her. I pointed out she had only the day before passed a vetting at the end of an endurance ride and she was deffinatly not lame. I said it was more like she couldn't bare to look at my mare compared to all the posh show horses and ponies in the ring. The judges then couldn't look me in the eye and I said I would leave the ring. As I left much to the astonishment of all who were watching the organiser came over and asked me what the problem was. I told her I had been sent out the ring as the judges said my pony was lame. She asked if I thought she was lame. I said no and with that she gave me my entry fee back.
My mare was by far the hardest working veteran there she had been hunting on the Wed, hunting again on the Sat, endurance on the Sunday, The show on the Mon and went hunting again on the Tue.
She looked amazing for her age, everyone else appart from the judge was admireing her everyone was shocked we got sent out. :(
 
Don't know about you guys but for me in the Veteran Classes the younger horses always win! My 28yo can still throw a good buck in just to show he is in no way old and although he usually comes 2nd/3rd we are always beaten by a horse which is about 16/17/18.
 
EKW said:
Ah but what you haven't taken into consideration in the Olympia Qualifiers is that most of them have designated winners before the year even starts! I have found that Veteran showing is so, so much more facey and predictable than any other type of showing!

They used to have the rule that you could only qualify for Olympia every other year to give a new fresh set of faces a chance - until 1 person wanted to go every year to win 3 on the bounce - so they changed the rules and she won 3 Olympia's on the bounce ...

Don't take it to heart! The judges at the Area Olympia Qualifiers have been told who is to win before they even step in the ring!
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Sadly I've also heard this does happen. I've seen many go through this year who were all at Olympia last year, tend to be the younger ones too. I'm very new to showing, only do it to get my older girl out and about. Just would be nice to feel that we all had the same chance.
 
LauraWheeler said:
^^^^ This.

I did the olympia qualifiers with Lucy. I got through the first round and was so excited to get to the next round (The one where you actualy qualified for olympia) I never expected to win but i was looking forward to a great day out and a fair chance. I took the day off work, hired a horsebox and paid my entry fee for both the inhand and ridden which for me was almost a weeks wages.

I did the inhand class and the judge hardly looked at us. (I wasn't to bothered as we were rubbish at inhand showing anyway ;) ) But I went in the ridden class ready to strut our stuff. I rode Lucy round and she was feeling great. I was so proud of her. Then came time for the judges to call us into the line up. The judge was calling everyone in and I could hear her saying to the steward things like "The bay hunter" "the chestnut riding horse" "the lovely Dressage horse" we were pulled in last and I heard the judge say "Oh and the chestnut thing" My heart fell but I thought I would continue undetured. The judges walked up the lineup came over to me and told me Lucy was lame and I shouldn't be riding her. I pointed out she had only the day before passed a vetting at the end of an endurance ride and she was deffinatly not lame. I said it was more like she couldn't bare to look at my mare compared to all the posh show horses and ponies in the ring. The judges then couldn't look me in the eye and I said I would leave the ring. As I left much to the astonishment of all who were watching the organiser came over and asked me what the problem was. I told her I had been sent out the ring as the judges said my pony was lame. She asked if I thought she was lame. I said no and with that she gave me my entry fee back.
My mare was by far the hardest working veteran there she had been hunting on the Wed, hunting again on the Sat, endurance on the Sunday, The show on the Mon and went hunting again on the Tue.
She looked amazing for her age, everyone else appart from the judge was admireing her everyone was shocked we got sent out. :(
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Sorry to hear that. I am still awaiting a response. I had one back regarding a show for next year which I have suggested, but they seem to have ignored the main part of my email (so far)

I also do not expect to actually win at these events, but some appreciation for the older horses, still being there and competing would be nice. I do think if they are there to represent 'Veterans' each age category should be fairly represented.

I am hoping a reply will at least acknowledge the facts in my post, even if they say they have no plans to change it. At least I would know not to get any hopes up of getting through!

It is far harder to keep a 26 year old ticking over than a 15 year old (in my opinion!), especially one which has (and is still) working in other disciplines.

I've booked my tickets to the final to go along and watch, I'll certainly be rooting for the three 'proper' veteran horses there! Have seen that there is a number of 16/17 years olds who were all there last year, going again (which EKW mentions above) I also agree that this isn't that fair for the same ones to go year after year.
 
Unfortunately I have found it to be quite an amateurish run society. The rules clearly state that handlers have to wear a jacket apparently this is a typo and you needn't - the rules are on line and could be updated anytime. Scores have to be sent off for if you want to see them and are not available at the shows. Unfortunately they have had a flood and lost all the score sheets. Not sure how they would now know you had qualified or not. I would suggest a scanner and computer back up may be in order in future. Newsletters are not readable on Apple devices and the facebook page is not regularly used. First round results are not published. There are very few second round competitions and in certain areas there aren't any at all.
I showed my 23 yr old Arab mare this year and was placed 4/4 which I was quite happy about as she did have some mud fever and the others (all younger) were all very nice. However the judge said she couldn't place me higher as I had shown her as an arab! (Hence why I wanted to see the score sheet).

Were there issues with the Veteran Horse Society? I do not understand why they have changed.

I really hope that the issues improve as both of mine are now in separate age divisions and if was looking forward to getting them both out again.
 
Darli, I was also informed about the 'major flood' which prevented me being sent the results from Bakewell. I now take photographs of the sheets on the day, I have them of Barleyfields, Osboldaston, Bowes should you need those? But I do agree, there should be another form of preventing issues like that from happening. I was told through the grapevine that if there was a mistake adding up scores, the sheets do not get released? (another can of worms!)

Bit strange comment to be told you showed an arab?! Can you find the judge and write to them? I ended up having to do this for Bakewell feedback as couldn't get anything from SSADL.

I've had to travel up to 4-5 hours for 2nd rounds, of which we did 3 shows, 7 classes (in-hand, ridden and one restricted) so have spent a fair bit of money and effort trying, I kept noticing the same trend, hence why I waited for the final horse ages to be posted in November before totalling up how many from each age group got through. (was hoping to be proved wrong, but it just shocked me how different the chances were for each age group!)

I was also a member of the VHS last year, and yes, I think they split? Not sure of the reasoning though??
 
there was a fall out, a differing of opinions, that is how the ssadl came about. I didn't bother with any of them this year.
as my horse is only 18, but he has had his issues throughout his life.
I do think they are starting to get older at 16 onward, my friends died at 17, but there are more and more horses thriving and doing well at much older. I guess its like people my dad have a very terrible stroke at 58 where some people live into there 100's
 
So ive just checked out the Veteran Horse Society, and saw they have dropped the age of a racehorse being a veteran to 12 years old:

** Retired Racehorses.
For the first time in VHS history the age of the veteran is dropping to 12 years. This is only for the NEW RETIRED RACEHORSE CLASS. This age catagory is on a trial period for 2015/16. THIS AGE LIMIT IS STRICTLY FOR HORSES THAT HAVE RACED IN THE UK OR THE SOUTH OF IRELAND and proof of racing maybe required.

http://www.veteran-horse-society.co.uk/VHSmembership.html

My friend has a 27 year old ex racehorse (jumper) who she still rides (and shows under SSADL)

How is anyone with a true veteran able to compete against 12 year olds!! I understand they start earlier but my horse was from Ireland, broken at 3, hunted, I've had her 20 years and she has worked hard, owes me nothing. I'd have never considered doing veteran classes at 12!

I cant help thinking its all to do with £ as it will attract more horses?

Grrrrr!!
 
sounds like it, 12 really isn't old! Cant imagine there would be many that could compete against a top 12 year old show hack or riding horse.
 
I did a couple of veteran classes at a major show, just for fun. Now I have been showing long enough to know to who is likely to be in the top three or four. One of those entered was lovely Welsh D, very smart looking but it was lame behind, it came third, the pony that came first, again very smart but looked its age. So I asked an experienced judge what they were looking for. She told me she had come off the judging panel as she had no idea how to judge the class, so what chance have we got.
Looking at the classes I entered you have to have a very smart show type, what ever its breed/type and that seems to over rule freedom of movement and soundness. Will not be wasting my money again.
 
Many thanks for the offer Silvershadow81 unfortunately the show I wanted was from Dorset at the beginning of September. I was told you couldn't see them on the day as the scores/comments have to be rechecked. When I asked I was told I should show as per the breed and it would be taken into consideration. Obviously hadn't passed that message on - perhaps I should plait.
 
Sorry, I didn't travel as far as Dorset! I've posted on their facebook and seems I'm not alone. Maybe if anyone who shares my original concerns about older horses being fairly represented in the final could also show support for a change to be considered could either comment or email too, it may strengthen the case?

I don't even know if my horse will be able to compete next year, she will be 27, she may not even be here, even if it helps to level things out, even the younger ones will benefit when they turn into true veterans

Facebook link: https://www.facebook.com/permalink....ent_id=379545582204891&ref=notif&notif_t=like
 
Racehorses are veterans at 12 are they? Would they like to tell that to the 16yo who came 2nd in a Handicap Chase at Ffos Las yesterday? Or to the hundred of 12-14yo PTP's who serve as schoolmasters to new young jockeys? One of my lads raced until he was 11yo, did his first show at the tail end of that year then went out properly as a 12yo the following year! Certainly not a veteran by any standards!

Twoddle!
 
EKW said:
Racehorses are veterans at 12 are they? Would they like to tell that to the 16yo who came 2nd in a Handicap Chase at Ffos Las yesterday? Or to the hundred of 12-14yo PTP's who serve as schoolmasters to new young jockeys? One of my lads raced until he was 11yo, did his first show at the tail end of that year then went out properly as a 12yo the following year! Certainly not a veteran by any standards!

Twoddle!
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Agree!

Still waiting to hear back from them to see if they can consider a fair playing field for each age category.....
 
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