Vets bill. Feel at bit unhappy.

[setterlover]

As many on here have followed my journey with our coloured cob and an eye squamous cell carcinoma.
He was PTS last week.
I received the vets bill today.
It was £470.This included a separate assessment visit of £140
He had problems associated with age (25) When we began this treatment I agreed to try injections into the tumour to see if we could reduce it (which it did at first.)The vet agreed with me that if it didn't work given age and other conditions ( poss Cushings ) low grade lameness arthritis and high laminitis risk,)that we would PTS rather than any invasive treatment.
Over the weekend he went down hill the tumour was larger and the eye was bulging he was walking oddly poss low grade laminitis or neurological given site if tumour generally very unhappy.
I contacted the vets but the guy dealing with him was working away for 2 weeks and when I spoke to him he said he would speak to another vet and appraise them of the situation and get them to call me .
They called and I went through in detail my concerns and said that I felt we had reached the end of the road as agreed with the first vet and probably PTS was in order
They said they would come out.
The horse was examined and agreed with my decision BUT would not PTS at once but rescheduled for the next day as it wasn't an emergency I asked if there was another appointment following mine but no there wasn't they just wanted to schedule it for the next day even though I had stated it was a strong option on the phone.
All done the next day but I now feel that my bill has been increased by £140 because of the vet's decision not to do as decided but put it off to the next day.
Given we are all on tight budgets I felt a bit upset at the extra costs

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I am so sorry you have lost your boy but it sounds like PTS was the kindest and only option left to you, as agreed with original vet. I have to say I am at a bit of a loss about the other vet refusing to PTS there and then if it had already been discussed, and you had alerted them that this was the likely outcome of their visit. Apart from anything else it seems very mean to postpone overnight for you as the owner in particular, never mind they didn't class it as an emergency.

I can only think perhaps the bill would have been considerably higher anyway if they did a PTS on the weekend and would presume that it would have been similar to having to pay the extra £140 anyway. Not much help to you and I still think you should have been given the option and price difference to decide for yourself.

 

[setterlover]

I am so sorry you have lost your boy but it sounds like PTS was the kindest and only option left to you, as agreed with original vet. I have to say I am at a bit of a loss about the other vet refusing to PTS there and then if it had already been discussed, and you had alerted them that this was the likely outcome of their visit. Apart from anything else it seems very mean to postpone overnight for you as the owner in particular, never mind they didn't class it as an emergency.

I can only think perhaps the bill would have been considerably higher anyway if they did a PTS on the weekend and would presume that it would have been similar to having to pay the extra £140 anyway. Not much help to you and I still think you should have been given the option and price difference to decide for yourself.

I was concerned about him over the weekend but managed him until the Monday when I phoned the vet.he was assessed on the Monday and the Tuesday he was PTS .

 

[misst]

I'm sorry you lost him. The waiting is awful when you know it's coming especially if they're not comfortable. I can't understand why they wouldn't PTS there and then unless it was a collection issue. X

 

[setterlover]

When the vet said it would be the next day I asked them to administer Bute by injection and leave me sachets to give in the morning to make sure he was comfortable. He did look a lot better after that.
I told them I had disposable sorted and waiting on speed dial ready for me to give a time.
They asked am I positive I don't want eye removed to see if that worked
I'm quite puzzled I think the original vet would have been more accommodating.

 

[misst]

That's dreadful. To question your decision on an old, loved horse with multiple problems. It's so wrong. I'm sorry it was made so hard for you.

 

[paddy555]

I'm sorry that you lost your boy.
I would be unhappy and asking the practice for an explanation as to why not PTS as instructed on the 1st visit.

I would point out,( by e mail so you can write a considered response) that by their action they have increased the bill by £140, cost bute by injection plus sachets, caused distress to the horse and considerable distress to myself. They had been advised on the phone that PTS was likely. What is their explanation. I would send them payment less £140 and advise you would like their response before considering the outstanding amount. I would point out 1st vet had agree especially in light of his other conditions which I would list. Point out you had everything in place to PTS so there was no reason to delay it. I would also point out that having made your decision it caused you a lot of distress to have it postponed for no apparent reason nor benefit to your lad.
I can't see any relevance to emergency or not. It was a case of a few minutes putting a couple of injections in.

The only reason I can see is that that vet didn't want to PTS an animal. Was it the same one who came the next day?

I had have horses PTS even though I didn't ask for it on the phone.
I had one colic at midnight, asked for vet to come out. As he was coming OH and I decided a 27yo did not get colic for the first time in his life without a problem and it was very very violent. We should call it a day due to his distress. Vet said pathetically I thought I had come to treat him and I explained I thought we would be in the same position the next night.
He did as asked.
I had another when I asked vet on arrival to PTS, no exam etc the horse was old and in distress. Vet asked me "are you absolutely sure" but beyond that no quibbles.

I too am sorry it was made a lot harder for you.

 

[rextherobber]

So sorry for your loss

 

[SEL]

I'm sorry - distressing enough as it is without a vet not wanting to PTS. Not the first time I've seen this actually and I breathed a sigh of relief when the practice partner did the next visit to the elderly horse because I knew she wouldn't procrastinate.

I'd do exactly what Paddy has advised. There really was no need to wait another 24 hours and Bute him up to get through it.

 

[slimjim86]

So sorry for your loss. I 100% agree with paddy on this.

 

[setterlover]

It was the same vet that came out the next day.
I have paid the bill as I want to draw a line under this whole unhappy episode
I do still have 2 horses so could use any credit against future bills on them.
When the vet came they seemed to be going through a script on what they would do and how it would progress I did say this isn't the first horse I've ever had to PTS so I do know how it works!.
Quite young so not sure how often they have done this it's a big veterinary hospital not sure how many they put down in the ' field' so to speak.
Going off to Badminton horse trials and onto visit friends so will have a good think while I am more detached from it all.

 

[suestowford]

Even though you have paid the bill I think it is still reasonable to query this. It's not just about the money either, it's about dragging it out when it didn't need to be so. It's distressing enough without all that. Good idea to give it some thought first though, I often find I come up with better ways of putting it, once I've had some time to think about it all.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would do exactly as Paddy555 suggested. But as you have paid the bill you have little to no leverage.
In view of your other thread about this practice, I would think very carefully about whether I wished to remain a client and if I did, which vets I would be prepared to deal with.

 

[holeymoley]

Not pleasant but can you explain to them on the phone the situation and why you're not happy, basically as you have said here? They should really waver the call out as it was in their interests to pts the following day.

Sorry for you loss x

 

[setterlover]

I would do exactly as Paddy555 suggested. But as you have paid the bill you have little to no leverage.
In view of your other thread about this practice, I would think very carefully about whether I wished to remain a client and if I did, which vets I would be prepared to deal with.

Yes it was the same vet with the bizarre advice about overnight hay .
They are a big veterinary hospital vets with a lot of vets doing just one year internships to get horse hospital experience so I'm not sure how long this vet will be there.
I have had others from the practise and have always been happy with them.
There isn't a lot of choice for specialist horse vets and the 2 others vets that would be close enough are general purpose small animal and farm vets who refer you to this vets for anything more than very basic.
I guess it's pot luck who you get out.

 

[Clodagh]

I do t think it matters that you have paid the bill at all. Raise your concerns in a letter or email and wait to see what they say.
Good luck and I’d be narked, in your shoes.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Yes it was the same vet with the bizarre advice about overnight hay .
They are a big veterinary hospital vets with a lot of vets doing just one year internships to get horse hospital experience so I'm not sure how long this vet will be there.
I have had others from the practise and have always been happy with them.
There isn't a lot of choice for specialist horse vets and the 2 others vets that would be close enough are general purpose small animal and farm vets who refer you to this vets for anything more than very basic.
I guess it's pot luck who you get out.

It wouldn't be pot luck who I get out. Ask for the vet you want, I do! There used to be a vet that I specifically told the receptionist never to send.
That one would be on my 'never send' list.

 

[SilverLinings]

I'm sorry that you had the end delayed like that @setterlover, it is a hard enough decision to make without having it dragged out. I agree that it would be a good idea to question the vet practice about why they didn't do it on the first visit as you had mentioned it when booking, and point out that it has cost you substantially more distress and money as a result (second visit fee plus bute). It was a rather unkind thing of the vet to do, and if it is due to some practice policy then that should have been explained to you when you mentioned PTS when booking the visit.

I hope that you have pleasant and distracting time at Badminton this week.

 

[meleeka]

I had a vet out for x-rays. We had no idea at the time that it would result in pts, but the appointment was already a long one. Once it was clear what was going to happen I asked if the vet could do it there and then. She didn’t hesitate and I’m guessing other appointments were shifted to accommodate as she did ring the office.

I wouldn’t be happy with having to wait unless there was good reason.

 

[setterlover]

I got the impression she felt all his problems could be ' treated ' the arthritis the poss Cushings and suspected low grade laminitis and the squamous cell carcinoma (with radical eye removal etc.) but I did explain that I didn't want to make a 25 years olds life a misery for what time he had left if he was 10 years old it might be different but not at his age.
I would rather let him go than invasive surgery and shutting him away from his friends off all grass.
Maybe it's the curse of youth to always want to 'fix" everything and maybe those of us oldies with life experience view the bigger picture around age ,/ happiness / and the amount of time likely to be achieved.

 

[Clodagh]

I got the impression she felt all his problems could be ' treated ' the arthritis the poss Cushings and suspected low grade laminitis and the squamous cell carcinoma (with radical eye removal etc.) but I did explain that I didn't want to make a 25 years olds life a misery for what time he had left if he was 10 years old it might be different but not at his age.
I would rather let him go than invasive surgery and shutting him away from his friends off all grass.
Maybe it's the curse of youth to always want to 'fix" everything and maybe those of us oldies with life experience view the bigger picture around age ,/ happiness / and the amount of time likely to be achieved.

My OH absolutely hates the questioning and defence you have to make before anything is pts. What she was suggesting was ridiculous. Hopefully with life experience she will learn to be a bit more constructive.

 

[SilverLinings]

Unfortunately I think some of the younger vets struggle a lot more with the idea that there are worse things than PTS, and find it difficult to understand why some clients won't try all the possible treatments available. I have a couple of friends who run vet practices (two different practices) and they have said they end up having to speak to most of the more recently qualified vets they employ about how pursuing treatment at any cost isn't always the most ethical approach. I do understand that people become vets wanting to 'fix' animals, but death is an unavoidable part of the job and should not be deferred if it means further suffering for the animal.

As the vet who visited had spoken to the vet who had previously assessed the horse they really shouldn't have tried to push you to accept treatment you had already had time to consider before making an informed decision to decline.

 

[Snowfilly]

I’m so sorry for your loss and for the utterly unprofessional way this vet acted. There was no need to delay the PTS and in doing so, he not only cost you money and distress but could potentially have left your horse in pain - you did well by him to get the bute.

Terrible attitude and I did once have similar from a vet who quibbled about doing the deed on an elderly pony and I really had to push with them as they wanted to treat her - except that her main issue was she was well into her thirties and that doesn’t have a cure.

I do think this sort of thing leads to a lot of anti vet sentiment, and you can see why - we’re so reliant on them for the wellbeing of our horses and when they choose to ignore that wellbeing and argue over it, we have very little comeback or say in the matter.

 

[setterlover]

My husband always says it's a bit 'We have the technology '
I have been considering this day since I first saw this squamous cell carcinoma in February and I knew then this was probably not going to end well given his age and the toll the years bring with the other factors of age.
I have run it over iny head a thousand times deciding what I would do and what I would not do in his treatment.
Sometimes throwing everything available at it both in treatment and cost is not the best answer and it doesn't mean you love them any less because you want to call it a day.
I don't think she meant to upset me and of course she probably wasn't even aware of it as I tend to go into cope mode and there is no ' wailing and gnashing of teeth .
He is at peace now and I can happily live with me decision.

 

[maya2008]

My OH absolutely hates the questioning and defence you gave to make before anything is pts. What she was suggesting was ridiculous. Hopefully with life experience she will learn to be a bit more constructive.

That is exactly why I call the fallen stock scheme (through Equine End of Life service) for a planned pts. No argument, no drama, just a kind, calm end.

 

[Fjord]

I'm so sorry you lost your boy and had to deal with a delay as well.

 

[ester]

I was confused why the made you wait another day on your original post tbh, I guess for some reason they maybe wanted to give you thinking time?! But I really wouldn't want that (and would probably have told them I'd call the knackerperson to do it instead). I would let yourself have a bit of space from it while you're away and then follow it up as to why.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I'm so sorry that you lost your horse. It sounds like you did absolutely the right thing. Yes, I would be very upset / annoyed with the vet. A letter to the practice Manager requesting a credit is definitely in order however I'd probably not want to dwell on that sad time. Remember all the good times and maybe change practice. Thinking of you.

 

[alibali]

I'm sorry for the loss of your oldie redsetter. He was lucky to have you in his corner looking out for his best interests.

I do think that vets have a very tough job and normally I have a lot of sympathy for them when I read threads complaint threads like this. However in this case I agree entirely with you and several other posters that the days delay was needless and expensive. Thankfully you made sure he had sufficient pain relief it didn't cause extra suffering but that could have been the case in other circumstances. It would certainly have prolonged my distress as an owner.

I have found the desire to do every possible treatment regardless of whether it's in the animals long term interest can be very strong in less experienced vets. My friend who has her own vet practice agrees. I think this is an area of teaching vet schools perhaps need to improve

 

[avthechav]

I’m sorry to read this. I lost my pony to squamous cell carcinoma last week too. I was pretty sure it had returned so called vet out, have been billed for an assessment and call out obviously and it was quickly decided that it was the end. She would have pts there and then had I been organised and had things in place. As it was, I called out our local disposal person a few days later and all was sorted. Do you think it was lack of confidence on the part of the second vet- not wanting to pts something that was a case of first vet? I would defo let the practice know that this is how you feel. They might find it useful to pass onto second vet. I assume that the £330 remainder on the bill was for the PTS the following day? They may waiver some of that if you query it? Same pony went to the vets last year for some dental work. I was billed for an assessment, and then a separate fee for a dental assessment. I queried this and it was a mistake with how it had been booked in.