Vibes for me... Am about to get nasty and violent :(

Queenbee

Queenbee

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We always know the time will come with youngsters... at some point or another they will test us in some way... well that time has come. Ben is being evil. He has suddenly turned into a nasty thing... gradually getting worse. Its general handling, bloshy, ears back, threatening behaviour... then the last straw was yesterday when I turned him out and he acted like a git... turned and reared. I could see he was going to have to step back into the electric fence so I had to drop the rope... standing in front of him would have had me flattened. As I dropped the rope he did step back into the fence, he got shocked, kicked out, caught himself in the fence (rope type) and broke 4 wodden posts as thick as my calf muscles! He is unhurt mores the pity! I spoke to the woman who backed him for me, and unfortunately it would appear that the method is old hat and simple... I actually agree with her, just needed to hear it. He needs a pasting. He is now, rude, stroppy big and inconsiderate... on the verge of becoming dangerous... apparently this is what happens if I give ben a rest (he doesn't like not being ridden now he knows what fun it is!) I know that if I leave it too long the threat will become a kick, the 2 ft rear will become full up and boxing. He is to be led in a chiffney, and one foot wrong, he is to be 'reprimanded fully' I am also to behave like I don't like him for a week or so because at hear he is a wuss and craves 'being liked'. I am not a 'hitter' but I wont stand this behaviour without repercussions for him. Just need to psych myself up for it. Spoke with Aunty G tonight... and said that I wouldn't pick a fight with him when the yard was busy as it will go on until he backs down. She has been incredibly supportive and told me everyone will understand, no one will judge. Please give me any inspiration for getting into my dominatrix role. x
 
Sending vibes for you, I know what its like.

As for whether you are right to take this course of action - cant say.

I wouldn't, as if it becomes out and out confrontation you are likely to loose.

Then again I dont have a better idea, and I'm getting more cowardly as I get older, so good luck with that.
 
i too am not a hitter or a shouter but having a young horse myself i have found that one hard lesson is a lot morr effective than a lot of littld 'oh please dont' sessions. good luck :-)
 
I have found that if they are silly, you get them busy, lots of yielding, backing up, lunge on a circle, ask for a change of direction, every half to 1 circle, and they soon stop being silly and start listening to you. Especially if being silly means work, and being good means they get to relax and chill out.
 
Breathe deep, tell yourself it's for the best and do it, I hit my lad for the first time in 3 yrs of having him, he had been bolshy several times with a 10 yr old girl, (he's 9) and just set his neck and walked back to the barn while she was bathing him, he got walloped with the lead rope and well and truly shouted at, funnily enough, he's been on his best behaviour since.
Good luck
 
oh yeah and i dont think youll find your being 'nasty and violent' just firm! if horses arent used to being spoken to loudly even raising your voice a little bit will make him go 'eek mums not happy!'
 
I have no advice at all - none of mine have ever acted this way and I have youngsters and have had one from birth to 7 years, birth to 3 years etc....I can't see how this will work though as I worry he will get even more angry or whatever he gets, lash out and you are just far too weedy in comparison to a horse to survive it in tact.
Do you know why he is doing this? Assume you will have already looked at his feed regime.
 
weirdly i am also at this conundrum and was wondering whether to post! my lad decided to push for the alpha role this evening by barging when asked for trot on lead. when i reprimanded him (clicked fingers, 'NO!) he tried to nip me. when i said no to that and flicked him with the lead rein, he struck out with hisffront foot. my escalation of reprimand did nothibg but make him worse. when we finished up he spooked all the way back to the stable.

i don't think a pasting will work so am going to try keeping him on a lunge cavesson and sending him away from me when he acts up. but do feel very upset and a little scared! hope you find a way forward op... do be careful as others have said.

sorry for rubbish spelling, my phone has gone crazy!
 
jeeve said:
I have found that if they are silly, you get them busy, lots of yielding, backing up, lunge on a circle, ask for a change of direction, every half to 1 circle, and they soon stop being silly and start listening to you. Especially if being silly means work, and being good means they get to relax and chill out.
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This and firm consistent handling will achieve far more than out and out picking a fight with a dominant horse. My horse is the sort to fight back and will not back down to aggression but face it with even more aggression. Unfortunately with a bolshy horse you have to be in charge so that they respect you and not so that they hate you even more or are scared of you!
 
could be something in the air in general! My almost 4 month old colt foal for the first time ever today in the field started his airs above the ground and feign rearing at me. He got a rubber skip in the chest and growled at when he wouldn't listen to me and lots of affection and scratches when he came up politely. It was hard to tell him off as inside I was thinking "damn he looks good when he turns it on" ! But he can't know that....I have never had it with the older ones though...I do agree with making them work more when they do it and speaking in much harsher tones.
 
Agree with spike. I cannot believe you would seriously consider doing this. Get some proper non violent help in to work through this.
 
rockysmum said:
Sending vibes for you, I know what its like.

As for whether you are right to take this course of action - cant say.

I wouldn't, as if it becomes out and out confrontation you are likely to loose.

Then again I dont have a better idea, and I'm getting more cowardly as I get older, so good luck with that.
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Thank you :( it is never ever my first course of action and I have tried many tactics I know, my YO is one of the most respected horsewomen around and this is not normally her attitude either. My trainer who backed him is not known for being 'a softy' but she too tried other methods, I knew he would have tested her, especially since he was sooooo good when he came home, to me. I trust her, in that I know her reactions will be measured and appropriate so if he was hit, I know she would have had a reason. That is why I called her, she told me they had had a point at which she had to take a crop to him, he was nasty and challenging... I know this can be his nature on the ground... she told me it worked and from the horse I took home it obviously did, which gives me confidence to do it... one good thing is that she reitterated his softy side, in that he quickly wimps out of his challenge of authority if you front up to him this way and his behavour settles almost straight away.
 
jeeve said:
I have found that if they are silly, you get them busy, lots of yielding, backing up, lunge on a circle, ask for a change of direction, every half to 1 circle, and they soon stop being silly and start listening to you. Especially if being silly means work, and being good means they get to relax and chill out.
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yeah, going to do that, but if he is a xyz on the ground again he is going to get it... and charlie chiffney is coming back out to play with him...
 
Conn used to be a nightmare so I got a dually and did a ton of ground work with him, now when I walk into his space, unless I say, he'll move backwards and out of my way.

I used to carry a short whip (like a jumping crop) and if he barged past whilst ignoring the headcollar he would get a tap, funnily enough I never had to ask twice!
 
flirtygerty said:
Breathe deep, tell yourself it's for the best and do it, I hit my lad for the first time in 3 yrs of having him, he had been bolshy several times with a 10 yr old girl, (he's 9) and just set his neck and walked back to the barn while she was bathing him, he got walloped with the lead rope and well and truly shouted at, funnily enough, he's been on his best behaviour since.
Good luck
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thank you! When I bought him, I always told myself to keep him emotionally at a distance cause I knew this day would come... I told myself yesterday when I drove away from the carnage to stop thinking about him as my horse, and start thinking about him as a horse... how would I treat him if he belonged to someone else and I was asked to 'deal with this' or advise on it... I didn't think I was being to soft with him, but I obviously was, probably because I have recently lost ebony

Unfortunately one hit wont do it... it will take something like this 'hit, buck, hit, kick, hit, kick, hit bum, hit, kick, hit, flat ears, hit, flat ears, hit, nothing... unfortunately that is what we are talking about, he is very challenging before he concedes... dominatrix outfit needed!
 
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My twenty year old was becoming very bargey at feed time snd would nip at me as I was putting out the hay, I had enough of asking nicely so one day last winter I turned around from the wheel barrow, boshed him one on the nose and screamed 'this is myyyy hayyyyyyyy!' While rushing at him flapping my arms, he's never nipped since! Its how they're put in their place in the herd, so ya gotsta be herd leader unfortunatley and give him the equivilent of a good kicking! Good luck xxx
 
P.S; not advising animal abuse, just enough of a stinger that he gets the message, that last post makes me sound like a horse-beater! :o I don't beat my horse he just got a bosh on the nose that once! Honest officer!
 
sophiebailey said:
I had enough of asking nicely so one day last winter I turned around from the wheel barrow, boshed him one on the nose and screamed 'this is myyyy hayyyyyyyy!' While rushing at him flapping my arms, he's never nipped since!
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I know its really wrong but this made me giggle uncontrollably :D
 
HBM1 said:
I have no advice at all - none of mine have ever acted this way and I have youngsters and have had one from birth to 7 years, birth to 3 years etc....I can't see how this will work though as I worry he will get even more angry or whatever he gets, lash out and you are just far too weedy in comparison to a horse to survive it in tact.
Do you know why he is doing this? Assume you will have already looked at his feed regime.
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yes, he is currently on grass and hay... thats it apart from a himalayan salt lick. He is in at day and out at night, but this is not the issue... he kicks off if he isn't the first in, he also has ad lib hay in field. We lost ebony earlier this year... but I think the route cause is that he is now a working horse and if not ridden everyday he gets moody... I was poorly for a week and moody became challenging, became 'i think Im boss :( Aunty G is one of the most respected horsewomen in cornwall and he is even pushing her... I know that this will work because it has done... and it has to... other methods haven't and I would rather him have a bit of a beating for want of a better word than hurt himself, a person, or become completely unhandlable by inaction
 
Has he got someone in the paddock he can play with? My 2 year old started doing this and if I got the lunge whip out it became even more of a game to him. I stuck him in with my older gelding and he was fine from then on as he had someone he could interact with and would put him in his place.

I think firm, consistent and fair is the way to bring up a young horse stick to the rules consistently and remediate when needed. I don't use whips etc when riding these days I find voice works better however if behaviour becomes dangerous I will use what ever I have on hand to correct it my life is too precious to be nice, a couple of feed buckets thrown at offensive behaviour normally nips it i the bud pretty quickly.
 
spike123 said:
This and firm consistent handling will achieve far more than out and out picking a fight with a dominant horse. My horse is the sort to fight back and will not back down to aggression but face it with even more aggression. Unfortunately with a bolshy horse you have to be in charge so that they respect you and not so that they hate you even more or are scared of you!
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unfortunately I would normally agree with you, but the 2 women I respect most, with years and hundreds of horses experience between them are in agreement with my feeling, hat, lungeline, lunge whip, reprimand when steps out of line and chiffney or bit at all times... I would rather not do it, but from experience, Trainer says it only took one session and he was fab after... rather go in hard and fast with him than mediocre and have it escillate.
 
After watching my 6 year old in the field with a very bolshy two year old it has made me wish I had the same lightening teeth and back feet that she does. Be careful and good luck with it!
 
maccachic said:
If he has under saddle for a bit since backing maybe it is time for a spell.
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No, not really, he has been off for 3 weeks, and got worse and worse with every day... its the lack of work that is the problem he despises being idle... but regardless of that I will not have bad manners. They are all separated in individual paddocks but he does get put in school with a mate occasionally for a play... untill his time off though he was completely chilled in his field, happy as a pig in mud... I need to work him but I want to get his ground manners nsorted first!
 
I went through a similar time with my 4 yr old. He was running backwards, into anything, cars, fences etc. I tried sitting there, turning whilst going backwards, all the nicey nicey approaches until he ditched me with a massive buck whilst running backwards and I tore my ligaments in my shoulder and ended up in A&E as I thought Id broke something, just because he didnt want to go in the school.
I asked a friend who had experienced similar and she said sorry but you need to sit this out once and for all, you need to give him a crack or 3 and send him forward. He has to go forwards, so armed with body proitector and basically bobbing myself, I did it, just one hard whack and that was it, he was so shocked, he shot forwards and never did it again.
Im not saying hes perfect, hes a git, opinionated and a face puller but hes now 13 and has never ran backwards since.
Be careful and good luck.
 
No probably not pr... What do u suggest... Tickle him under the chin? U don't know him, or me, or his character, or the people that know him and have suggested what I was already thinking. Tbh I don't think much of ur posts I've seen them before. I'm not generally an advocate for such methods but he needs to lose an argument and learn his place in the pecking order again. And it has worked with him before, so y wont it work now? Each horse has to be handled according to their own attitude and behaviour, I wouldn't have dreamed of this approach with ebony... He is not Ebs, doesn't mean I don't care about him, but I won't have him as a danger to himself and others. If that means he has to feel the whip as a shock tactic... I can live with that, I couldn't live with him hurting someone though
 
I completely understand where you are coming from, but I think the preparing for a fight and giving him a pasting will only lead to more issues- he's a horse you won't win.

Being smarter, quicker and reprimanding just once but at the right time will be far more effective than repeatedly hitting and shouting.

E.g. The first time my youngster bit me I was prepared as I knew it was coming- I bopped her straight back, hard and fast- I think with horses you have to try to be as quick as an electric fence for them to learn. Because I'd been prepared for this, I was very quick in reprimanding her and consequently that was the first and last time she has bitten me in two years.

Likewise, she reared one day whilst being led. The next day, I took a schooling whip and when she went to do it again I hit her across the belly. It surprised her and she hasn't done it since. At no point have I had to get angry or shout or repeatedly hit and smack but she has learnt lessons calmly and well.
 
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