Video - Abuse in the showing world

[Gloi]

What percentage of small ponies go in the outline they are expected to in the ring without spending hours standing in in side reins? Few of the tiny riders are capable of schooling them to go like that.

 

[dottylottie]

Someone commented that the horse was stuck like that for 2 hours! Surely not?

It’s so disgusting. Why work with animals if you hate them that much!

the video was recorded by a dog walker, they went back past almost 2 hours later to see the poor thing still stood there. apparently it’s fine because it was being watched on the cctv

 

[dottylottie]

Did they say what they were hoping to achieve , looks like punishment to me and much worse than CDJ’s behaviour(which doesn’t excuse that) which was put all over the national news, particularly by the BBC. This sort of thing needs to be publicised to the general public not just horse circles

it’s the producers own horse, “saved” from the meat man and bought for meat money as it’s a bolter & rearer, and has a fear of the height of a rider - it’s been tied down to stop it going up and over on itself, or going over the fence. i very strongly believe if this is what it takes for the horse to be ridden, the horse simply should not be a ridden horse!

poor thing would’ve been better off…i’ve seen at least one horse has been moved to another producer by the owners, but this poor soul likely won’t have a happy ending

 

[meleeka]

it’s the producers own horse, “saved” from the meat man and bought for meat money as it’s a bolter & rearer, and has a fear of the height of a rider - it’s been tied down to stop it going up and over on itself, or going over the fence. i very strongly believe if this is what it takes for the horse to be ridden, the horse simply should not be a ridden horse!

poor thing would’ve been better off…i’ve seen at least one horse has been moved to another producer by the owners, but this poor soul likely won’t have a happy ending

Funny how horses that are backed properly, get used to the height of a rider without anyone resorting to abuse

 

[irishdraft]

Hmm the ' saving the horse from itself ' was the excuse Cesar Parra used if I remember rightly x

 

[BurntontheoutsideTurkey]

Hmm the ' saving the horse from itself ' was the excuse Cesar Parra used if I remember rightly x

And Heath Ryan. Wonder what psychology is at work there, when many of us would be happy to say better put down than abused.

 

[onemoretime]

I have no time for showing. The organisations are slow to do anything, the expectations for welfare are low and they do very little because it's not an FEI governed sport. It's also not helped that they have about 4/5 different bodies rather than just one. Every time I watch professional showing I am sickened. Ponies being warmed up by adults, insanely tight martingales, fat horses, fat riders, rigged judging. Someone recently asked to borrow some regumate off me because they had a riggy colt which kept ruining its showing and they had 'tried' everything else. This is a top level producer. Nothing really happened to Lynn Russell for pretty much the same thing except it was in a stable. It happens day in day out with horses and ponies strapped down on the Walker or in the stable and it's just standard now.

Sure one or two people will be ethical and do the horses well, but I have seen far too many horses at big shows I feel sorry for.

Agree with you. Its been going on for years. The showing lot think nothing of leaving horses tied in pillar reins all night. Also drugging is pretty standard!

 

[onemoretime]

I’d never heard of him either to be honest.

Neither have I.

 

[dottylottie]

Funny how horses that are backed properly, get used to the height of a rider without anyone resorting to abuse

the woman who works with/for him had a lot to say to those calling it out on fb, basically saying lumping the person who “ruined” the horse in the same category as those calling it out - “if it wasn’t for the likes of you” kind of vibe.

 

[onemoretime]

I know nothing about the showing world but what on earth do they use bromide for?

To calm them down. If you have ever taken something like Night Nurse when you had a cold that contains Bromide to help you sleep.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

Agree with you. Its been going on for years. The showing lot think nothing of leaving horses tied in pillar reins all night. Also drugging is pretty standard!

I mean that’s just not true. Showing has its issues, and as a member of “The showing lot” I think it’s something we should be open to discussing. But it’s pretty unfair to tarnish us all with the same brush.

Are there instances of horses being drugged? Yes, as there are in all horse sports, but it is certainly not standard.

There are lots of fabulous producers, any of whom I would trust with my horse. There are also some who have no business being anywhere near any animal, but let’s focus on those, not have a witch hunt at anyone involved.

 

[onemoretime]

The woman has a long history of dreadful behaviour. Surprising the police were not involved in some of her previous antics.

Agree, Ive seen her name on the Dodgy dealer pages!

 

[onemoretime]

I mean that’s just not true. Showing has its issues, and as a member of “The showing lot” I think it’s something we should be open to discussing. But it’s pretty unfair to tarnish us all with the same brush.

Are there instances of horses being drugged? Yes, as there are in all horse sports, but it is certainly not standard.

There are lots of fabulous producers, any of whom I would trust with my horse. There are also some who have no business being anywhere near any animal, but let’s focus on those, not have a witch hunt at anyone involved.

It went on a good deal in the 80's in a good many yards so I doubt its changed since. I know there are some very good producers as well which situations like this makes it very difficult for them.

 

[onemoretime]

it’s the producers own horse, “saved” from the meat man and bought for meat money as it’s a bolter & rearer, and has a fear of the height of a rider - it’s been tied down to stop it going up and over on itself, or going over the fence. i very strongly believe if this is what it takes for the horse to be ridden, the horse simply should not be a ridden horse!

poor thing would’ve been better off…i’ve seen at least one horse has been moved to another producer by the owners, but this poor soul likely won’t have a happy ending

May be the horse is in pain, possibly in the back or neck. There is usually a reason why a horse acts in that way.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

It went on a good deal in the 80's in a good many yards so I doubt its changed since. I know there are some very good producers as well which situations like this makes it very difficult for them.

No, and sadly you’re quite right it has been going on for years. This is where I wish the relevant governing bodies would step up, because it’s been far too easy for the bad ones to get away with it and win.

 

[ihatework]

It went on a good deal in the 80's in a good many yards so I doubt its changed since. I know there are some very good producers as well which situations like this makes it very difficult for them.

It was definitely endemic in years gone by, and I’m sure it’s still pretty prevalent, old habits don’t die hard.

But I’d caution a blanket label (as much as I dislike showing), because those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. All horse sport has a dark side. And depending on your discipline, and what you see individually as good/normal, it’s only because it’s what you are used to.

For example, in showing I see seriously obese horses whose welfare is at risk, and in eventing I mostly see fit animals. Whereas a showing a fan may see thin under muscled animals (wither dip debate anyone?) and horses put at risk of injury

 

[Jenko109]

Just read the comments on the facebook post.

Just wow.

Still has some 5000 odd friends.

How are all these horse people standing by this behaviour?

How can they look at that poor horse tied down like that and just shrug it off?

Rank.

 

[ester]

Because they’ve all done similar?

 

[VictoriaSponge]

All horse sport has a dark side. And depending on your discipline, and what you see individually as good/normal, it’s only because it’s what you are used to.

For example, in showing I see seriously obese horses whose welfare is at risk, and in eventing I mostly see fit animals. Whereas a showing a fan may see thin under muscled animals (wither dip debate anyone?) and horses put at risk of injury

I think to someone not familiar with it, showing looks easy. And it is really; we’re making a horse shiny and asking it to show four paces around a ring. Why would anyone even consider employing such heinous methods to get a horse to do that?

It’s more logical that dressage/show jumpers go to abusive extremes in their training because they are asking their animals to do more impressive looking things; jump Grand Prix courses or piaffe round a test.

It’s some feat to produce a top level show horse. Essentially, it needs to be capable of performing a decent elementary dressage test, in a busy county show atmosphere with motorbikes flying overhead, ridden by someone that’s never sat on it before.

Clearly I’m not excusing any of the disgusting methods used to fast track this process. But I think some of the hatred towards showing (and the idea that everyone involved is a rosette hunting, horse abusing witch) comes from a lack of understanding and of exactly what is required.

But unfortunately, that the people who are complicit in the abuse (overweight horses, overweight riders, abuse such as the video in question), do win, and there’s no excuse for that.

 

[Parrotperson]

Interestingly I once worked at a show jumping yard. I was on another part of the yard but when I went back down to the other stables (the house was between the yards if you see what I mean) I found a four year old (very very sweet horse) in his stable tacked up with his head tied to his chest. I immediately untacked him and went to find the boss. ‘He was messing around when I was riding.’ was what he said or some such nonsense. I told him I’d untacked him and I didn’t expect to find him like that again.

I’m able to stand up for myself so he said nowt. I did leave eventually because of that and the nonsense hours I was expected to work (8am to midnight finished me off).

This just reaffirms my belief that the equestrian workplace is generally an inherently cruel and unusual place. Horses are commodities to most professionals. Maybe I’m just tired and jaded. Hope that poor horse was rescued.

 

[ihatework]

I think to someone not familiar with it, showing looks easy. And it is really; we’re making a horse shiny and asking it to show four paces around a ring. Why would anyone even consider employing such heinous methods to get a horse to do that?

It’s more logical that dressage/show jumpers go to abusive extremes in their training because they are asking their animals to do more impressive looking things; jump Grand Prix courses or piaffe round a test.

It’s some feat to produce a top level show horse. Essentially, it needs to be capable of performing a decent elementary dressage test, in a busy county show atmosphere with motorbikes flying overhead, ridden by someone that’s never sat on it before.

Clearly I’m not excusing any of the disgusting methods used to fast track this process. But I think some of the hatred towards showing (and the idea that everyone involved is a rosette hunting, horse abusing witch) comes from a lack of understanding and of exactly what is required.

But unfortunately, that the people who are complicit in the abuse (overweight horses, overweight riders, abuse such as the video in question), do win, and there’s no excuse for that.

I don’t think it’s easy, I think production of a good show horse is very skilled.

I just don’t like the things that have to be done to get the horse produced that way.

Obviously the training methods in some yards, although appreciate that’s not all.

But there is no denying the level of feeding, rugging, wrapping in cotton wool tends to go way to the extreme. The amount of metabolic (and arthritic to some extent) consequences of show horse production. Lots of these horses destined for the ring are subject to that from a very young age.

ETA - I also despise the politics involved in the judging

 

[VictoriaSponge]

I don’t think it’s easy, I think production of a good show horse is very skilled.

I just don’t like the things that have to be done to get the horse produced that way.

Obviously the training methods in some yards, although appreciate that’s not all.

But there is no denying the level of feeding, rugging, wrapping in cotton wool tends to go way to the extreme. The amount of metabolic (and arthritic to some extent) consequences of show horse production. Lots of these horses destined for the ring are subject to that from a very young age.

ETA - I also despise the politics involved in the judging

They are all very valid points and something that I wish was better policed.

But there does seem to be the belief (not necessarily on this thread but in the horse world in general) that most showing producers go to the extremes to win at the cost of their horse, yet professional eventers/showjumpers/dressage riders are good horse people, with a few bad eggs. There is a disproportionate scrutiny towards showing which I don’t think is founded, only that it is an easier discipline to criticise because it can appear less skilled, ie. anyone with a horse can join in.

 

[Caski]

Showing is a tough discipline, I only did mwts and workers, but there was a lot of work involved in producing your horse.

To have confidence that your beloved would go as well for the judge (who might have a very different physique or riding style) is a real test!

Strapping properly and feeding are art forms But then I am from the age of feeding straights!

 

[marmalade76]

Well yes, perhaps, but it's not the job of the ordinary person who would like to be interested in and even support horse sport to shame those with low standards (and if people do, the cries of 'witch hunt!' are never far away). It's the job of the governing bodies to get rid of these people, to show them how unwelcome their practices are, and they've singularly failed to do anything like that.

And don't forget 'death threats', they all seem to get those.

 

[I'm Dun]

I mean that’s just not true. Showing has its issues, and as a member of “The showing lot” I think it’s something we should be open to discussing. But it’s pretty unfair to tarnish us all with the same brush.

Are there instances of horses being drugged? Yes, as there are in all horse sports, but it is certainly not standard.

There are lots of fabulous producers, any of whom I would trust with my horse. There are also some who have no business being anywhere near any animal, but let’s focus on those, not have a witch hunt at anyone involved.

If its just not true how come so many of us have seen it?

I did a stint for one of the absolute top producers in the country. Horses were tied down like this and put on the walker. Tiny ponies ridden by adults to keep them behaving. I saw tons of neck covers put on to "sweat the neck" as the pony was too cresty, mainly because it was fat as a pig. I saw horses have hoof casts put on to hide pigeon toed feet. And one sharp horse used to be lunged every couple of hours overnight to keep it sweet.

They also knew who was going to win what before they even loaded the wagon.

His head rider, who has gone on to be very successful in his own right, was awful and a lot of horses suffered at his hands. This is someone considered to be one of the decent ones, and certainly one of the most prolific winners.

 

[I'm Dun]

They are all very valid points and something that I wish was better policed.

But there does seem to be the belief (not necessarily on this thread but in the horse world in general) that most showing producers go to the extremes to win at the cost of their horse, yet professional eventers/showjumpers/dressage riders are good horse people, with a few bad eggs. There is a disproportionate scrutiny towards showing which I don’t think is founded, only that it is an easier discipline to criticise because it can appear less skilled, ie. anyone with a horse can join in.

If every horse in the ring wasnt incredibly fat people might not think that. But when every horse put forward looks like that then theres something wrong with the whole thing.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

If its just not true how come so many of us have seen it?

I did a stint for one of the absolute top producers in the country. Horses were tied down like this and put on the walker. Tiny ponies ridden by adults to keep them behaving. I saw tons of neck covers put on to "sweat the neck" as the pony was too cresty, mainly because it was fat as a pig. I saw horses have hoof casts put on to hide pigeon toed feet. And one sharp horse used to be lunged every couple of hours overnight to keep it sweet.

They also knew who was going to win what before they even loaded the wagon.

Does it happen? Absolutely, no question. And I think the societies do a pitiful job of preventing it. As I’ve stated a few times on this thread, I think it’s disgraceful that the people who do this go on to win, despite the fact that in many cases it’s a known issue.

But, the post I was replying to implied that everyone in showing is like that, which isn’t the case. In my experience it is most definitely the minority, and I, along with plenty others, am ashamed to share a ring with them.

If every horse in the ring wasnt incredibly fat people might not think that. But when every horse put forward looks like that then theres something wrong with the whole thing.

I wouldn’t agree with this on the whole. Cob classes and natives, yes I think you could make a very good argument that most are overweight, and that is not acceptable. I don’t think it’s the case at all for the horse classes, but there are exceptions. But you are very correct in that if all you see of showing is a cob class that you happen to catch at your local county show then see this video, it’s going to leave a very bad taste.

 

[AdorableAlice]

sedative

A very useful item in your tool box if you have a box resting horse stressing out.

HOY's 2009 middles, this producer had a horse in the ring that was tripping alarmingly and its penis down to its hocks. I won't name the horse. Mine competed against it regularly and there was no doubt it was away with the fairies, yet I never saw it sent out, it was on the back row though.

My horse was dope tested during his career.

I've also visited the producers yard on buying trips, again a good while ago, he was sourcing very smart types. A friend bought a LW, which in the first 2 weeks of being home with me, dumped its new owner several times with a very dirty dropped shoulder. It went back and the money was eventually returned but not in full.

 

[Marshpiper]

Three examples personally seen and reported by myself…
Horse reported by security to me, as having been tied up in stable, no access to haynet or water, first seen by security at 11pm and still the same at various time during night…obviously we are unable to release horse as could be a health issue, I approached owner/rider first thing in morning when she arrived at stable, to be told in no uncertain terms to bog off, horse would be unrideable if not kept like this, reported to organisers nothing done….first and last time I worked there
Pony being lunged/chased round lunging pen at 5am in morning, watched for 15 minutes, went and spoke to person lunging pony, no effect, kept watching for 30 minutes went out and after few heated words pony taken out, reported to stewards when they arrived, pony not allowed to compete…
Horse being physically abused in stable…backed up by other personnel abuse stopped, horse removed from show grounds….
I have worked at different events, shows, but actually the worse abuse is at showing events…..thank goodness for the Equine Welfare Society who are working hard to change this….

 

[Sanversera]

What percentage of small ponies go in the outline they are expected to in the ring without spending hours standing in in side reins? Few of the tiny riders are capable of schooling them to go like that.

This. It looks so unnatural with those tots riding those little ponies in a fixed outline. The judges need to mark them down IMO.