Video - What could be wrong with my little JRT?

Wagtail

Wagtail

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I am really worried about one of my dogs. She is a ten year old JRT that is the size of a Chihuahua, and only weighs 2.5kg. She would intermittently get a 'bad back' for several years but it would only last a few hours and occur every few months or so when she would walk all crooked. Now though she gets this problem where she is bent to the right, can't raise her head and left shoulder juts out every time she gets up after lying down. It gradually wears off when she moves but she is always slightly bent to the right. The vet has seen her and was clueless. Pain killers and anti inflammatory make no difference. She is booked in again to see the vet tomorrow, but I wondered if any of you have any ideas. She has always been this weight. Not at all like her full sister who is a typical JR shape and vets are impressed by her 'figure'. You can't see her ribs but she is built almost like a whippet.

[video=youtube;ZgbjgV6ws7E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgbjgV6ws7E&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
If that was my dog if I were making no progress with the vet I would have the ACPAT trained physio who works a lot with our vets to look at the dog .
Canine physio is making the jump forward at the moment that equine physio had a few years ago.
It certainly looks like a pain response I never had a JR but aren't they prone to nerve problems .
 
Goldenstar said:
If that was my dog if I were making no progress with the vet I would have the ACPAT trained physio who works a lot with our vets to look at the dog .
Canine physio is making the jump forward at the moment that equine physio had a few years ago.
It certainly looks like a pain response I never had a JR but aren't they prone to nerve problems .
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Thanks. I hadn't heard about the nerve problems, so I will look that up. I will ask the vet about a physio. I am going to a different vets tomorrow for a second opinion as first vet didn't seem to have a clue.
 
My late JRT had a terrible back problem that started with just the odd slip behind to full blown disc problems resulting in major surgery so they can definitely be prone to problems through their backs. This was 15 years ago now so physios for dogs were not plentiful and so by the time we realised what was happening it was nearly too late as the vets were pretty clueless.

I would definitely look into a physio or such for her and see what their opinion is.
 
The head tilt looks quite a lot like vestibular syndrome, but this is quite common so I expect there's a good reason your vet has ruled it out.

What a little sweetie, I hope you manage to get to the bottom of it and she's fixed soon.
 
Doormouse said:
My late JRT had a terrible back problem that started with just the odd slip behind to full blown disc problems resulting in major surgery so they can definitely be prone to problems through their backs. This was 15 years ago now so physios for dogs were not plentiful and so by the time we realised what was happening it was nearly too late as the vets were pretty clueless.

I would definitely look into a physio or such for her and see what their opinion is.
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Thanks. Yes, I will.

Possum said:
The head tilt looks quite a lot like vestibular syndrome, but this is quite common so I expect there's a good reason your vet has ruled it out.

What a little sweetie, I hope you manage to get to the bottom of it and she's fixed soon.
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She is incredibly sweet. I will look up vestibular syndrome, thanks.
 
I have a lab who displayed some similar symptoms, although a little more extreme and without the head tilt.

He was finally diagnosed with a spinal chord compression. So it's quite possibly something neural.
 
ihatework said:
I have a lab who displayed some similar symptoms, although a little more extreme and without the head tilt.

He was finally diagnosed with a spinal chord compression. So it's quite possibly something neural.
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Thanks. How was he diagnosed and treated?
 
After full X-rays were inconclusive he went for an MRI, which highlighted the problem.

I was given 2 options, full on spinal operation which involved cutting away some bone and metal plating, 6 months recovery etc.

Or conservative - life long metacam, Physio, swimming and care with types of exercise (no more chasing after balls etc)

I opted for the latter and nearly 2 years later he is still pretty stable and with a good quality of life. Had a couple of minor relapses - but a couple of days on tramadol and box rest and he is fine again.
 
I'm far from any expert, but just on another option.. Have you had her ears looked at? (infection, blockage, ect..?) When my dog gets either water or a seed in her ear she also head tilts.

Good luck, sure you'll get to the bottom of it very soon. Sweet little thing.
 
ihatework said:
After full X-rays were inconclusive he went for an MRI, which highlighted the problem.

I was given 2 options, full on spinal operation which involved cutting away some bone and metal plating, 6 months recovery etc.

Or conservative - life long metacam, Physio, swimming and care with types of exercise (no more chasing after balls etc)

I opted for the latter and nearly 2 years later he is still pretty stable and with a good quality of life. Had a couple of minor relapses - but a couple of days on tramadol and box rest and he is fine again.
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Thanks. After a bit more googling, I think that she may have some sort of disc disease, so possibly similar to your boy. She doesn't seem in much pain, though I have been giving her daily rymadyl, and she can still jump up on the chairs and beds etc. It seems to wear off as she moves, but she definitely has very reduced movement in her neck at all times now. Poor little thing. I reckon I will be looking at getting x-rays at the very least.
 
Fools Motto said:
I'm far from any expert, but just on another option.. Have you had her ears looked at? (infection, blockage, ect..?) When my dog gets either water or a seed in her ear she also head tilts.

Good luck, sure you'll get to the bottom of it very soon. Sweet little thing.
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Thanks. I had thought about a possible ear problem. I must remember to ask the vet to have a look when I go tomorrow.
 
I don't know where you are based but I would throughly recommend going to visit somewhere like Torrington Orthopedics at Brighouse for a full work through. I wouldn't want a physio working on the dog until seen by a specialist who may require scans or X-rays. Very sweet little dog, good luck.x
 
Annie B. said:
I don't know where you are based but I would throughly recommend going to visit somewhere like Torrington Orthopedics at Brighouse for a full work through. I wouldn't want a physio working on the dog until seen by a specialist who may require scans or X-rays. Very sweet little dog, good luck.x
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I'm miles away from Brighouse, unfortunately. I wouldn't get a physio unless recommended by the vet. She's such a delicate little thing, I think it would be too easy to damage her.
 
Just my opinion but it does look very similar to a dog I had years ago who jumped out the dining room window after a rat and did her vertebrae, she had an op and with cage rest and pain killers she did come right.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Just my opinion but it does look very similar to a dog I had years ago who jumped out the dining room window after a rat and did her vertebrae, she had an op and with cage rest and pain killers she did come right.
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She is always jumping off the backs of chairs onto stone tiles though we try to stop her if we're quick enough, so that wouldn't surprise me if she had fallen awkwardly at some time. We never saw her yelp or anything like that. The whining in the video is more excitement as they had been watching the rabbits outside.
 
Is she on any medication for anything?

It's a bit out there, but it could be a dystonic reaction to something, or dystonia.

Sounds strange I know, but I had an acute dystonic reaction to a type of anti-emetic that I was taking and I showed the same sort of symptoms as your dog. I couldn't move my head to the right or left (it would change every half hour or so) and I also couldn't control my movements properly. I was essentially stuck in one position until I had a spasm and then my body position would change and get 'stuck' again.

It's very rare in dogs but that's the first thing that popped into my head.
 
SpringArising said:
Is she on any medication for anything?

It's a bit out there, but it could be a dystonic reaction to something, or dystonia.

Sounds strange I know, but I had an acute dystonic reaction to a type of anti-emetic that I was taking and I showed the same sort of symptoms as your dog. I couldn't move my head to the right or left (it would change every half hour or so) and I also couldn't control my movements properly. I was essentially stuck in one position until I had a spasm and then my body position would change and get 'stuck' again.

It's very rare in dogs but that's the first thing that popped into my head.
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Thanks, I'll look it up. She isn't on any medication except for rymadyl whenever she gets really bad, which is most days at the moment. I said in the OP that she is no better with pain killers, but after watching her closely today after giving her the dose, she does improve for a few hours afterwards. It's just that she is not improving day by day.
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks, I'll look it up. She isn't on any medication except for rymadyl whenever she gets really bad, which is most days at the moment.
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You've probably already done this, but I just looked up the side-effects of Rymadyl:

- Staggering, stumbling, weakness or partial paralysis, full paralysis, seizures, dizziness, loss of balance
- Change in behaviour (such as decreased or increased
activity level, incoordination)
 
SpringArising said:
You've probably already done this, but I just looked up the side-effects of Rymadyl:

- Staggering, stumbling, weakness or partial paralysis, full paralysis, seizures, dizziness, loss of balance
- Change in behaviour (such as decreased or increased
activity level, incoordination)
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Thanks. The original vet gave her metacam which made no difference. I have only given her rymadyl in response to her symptoms and she is slightly better after taking it, so definitely not the side affects causing the problem. However, I know it is not the best med to have them on long term. Her full sister can't tolerate it at all (gets awful diarrhea).
 
My little dog had spinal surgery after an accident and he picked up amazingly well. My vet recommended a magnetic collar for him when he went off his legs a few years later. He lived well for another 8 years and wore it all the time, digging, ratting and generally being a terrierist. The only time he went off his legs again was when I took it off for a week. He lived to be 17.
I know there is no hard evidences to why it should make a difference, but it did to my dog.
 
ozpoz said:
My little dog had spinal surgery after an accident and he picked up amazingly well. My vet recommended a magnetic collar for him when he went off his legs a few years later. He lived well for another 8 years and wore it all the time, digging, ratting and generally being a terrierist. The only time he went off his legs again was when I took it off for a week. He lived to be 17.
I know there is no hard evidences to why it should make a difference, but it did to my dog.
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Blimey, 17 is a really good age! I do think that magnets can work with some conditions. My horse with KS definitely was better after wearing his armadillo magnetic rug before exercise.
 
Not sure what diagnostics this dog has already undergone but I would not want to involve a physio at this stage WITHOUT a clear veterinary diagnosis. I would also walk away from any physio/therapist that saw the dog and did not immediately refer back to vet.

Not sure where you are geographically, but if somewhere remote you may wish to start thinking about a referral centre.
 
You need to go to a vet who actually has a neurological speciality/interest- what level of practice are you going to tomorrow as if a first opinion one I would skip to one who can actually investigate knowledgeably.
 
I think you are Licolnshire, so possibly Dick White at Newmarket if you went down the specialist route?
I hope you get to the bottom of it.
 
Thanks. I have been to Dick Whites before so know where it is. Tomorrow she is going to Oakham Veterinary Hospital.
 
My boy had a HNPE. (Ruptured disc causing spine compression). We are under the team at the RVC in potters bar. He had a ventral slot op and is much better after that plus gabapentin. He was literally screaming in agony but only intermittently when he moved a certain way. Some dogs with the same condition present with being completely off their legs but no pain. He could walk but was in intense pain and would freeze. Still not right but better than he was. it could be any number of things but if an X-ray shows nothing obvious then an mri will show any compression.
 
She seems to have improved a lot since yesterday, but I'm still taking her to the vets because it's got nearly better before. I was going to take her again last week but she seemed loads better for a few days before getting worse again on Sunday. So I know it will just keep coming back again.
 
Just got back from the vets. Showed them the video as she was much improved today. Vet says it is a very unusual presentation of symptoms. Ears ruled out as very clean, left shoulder and humerus is swollen with reduced movement but not painful and not lame, reduced movement in head and neck, again not painful. Vet suggested a number of things that could be going on, all of which are normally painful. Dislocated shoulder or fracture, compressed disc in neck, arthritis, or possibly a tumour. So she is booked in to see their in house orthopaedic surgeon a week on Thursday for x-rays and bloods. In the meantime just continue with the rymadyl. She is bouncing and happy today so I'm not too worried about having to wait that long. It was the first available appointment.
 
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