Vote a p mccoy for sports personality - tonight!

[1stclassalan]

Look here,i've had enough of you buggers going on about as i said before was a light hearted thread about SPOTY but its turned into something unpleasant, i'm a frigging farmerswife and ex-hunter and not into Nuclear Physics or Mycology, whatever that is(what do these things have to do with the subject in hand god knows!)why would i want to debate it with you anyway???As for Monty, im a non believer- does that make me a devils disciple?

Hmm..... I rather think it was you who, if not starting this thread to be "unpleasant" has certainly sought to purpetuate it as such! Reference "you buggers" ( kindly think on what that actually means!) and substitute expletives "frigging."

I would much rather you enter the debate properly and maintain your cool! And yes, I do believe that you want to debate the subject or else you'd stay away. Explain why you think it's O.k. to whip your horse - or watch someone else do it - if you truly believe it - you should be able to justify.

If you don't "believe" in Monty - tell us how you break-in - your methods might be just as understanding - don't immediately jump to the conclusion that I will be anti just because your views are different.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

Hmm..... I rather think it was you who, if not starting this thread to be "unpleasant" has certainly sought to purpetuate it as such! Reference "you buggers" ( kindly think on what that actually means!) and substitute expletives "frigging."

I would much rather you enter the debate properly and maintain your cool! And yes, I do believe that you want to debate the subject or else you'd stay away. Explain why you think it's O.k. to whip your horse - or watch someone else do it - if you truly believe it - you should be able to justify.

If you don't "believe" in Monty - tell us how you break-in - your methods might be just as understanding - don't immediately jump to the conclusion that I will be anti just because your views are different.

Just to please you i am pulling out of this thread cos enough is enough, i was taught the traditional way of breaking in, lunging, long reining over a good period of time,but that is alll i am prepared to say!!

 

[pastie2]

Just to please you i am pulling out of this thread cos enough is enough, i was taught the traditional way of breaking in, lunging, long reining over a good period of time,but that is alll i am prepared to say!!

Well said Rosie, the above poster to whom you replied, has I think been reading too many posts by judgemental, he has that same tone!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

. Also discovering that the racing industry supports (and funds) horrific animal experimentation programs

those studies benefit all horses and ponies and actually, racing funds the majority of equine veterinary research in the UK.racing funds research into lameness and disease. very little equine research involves experimentation in the way you are inferring anyway. people like you bleating on about animal experimentation without explanation does nothing but harm research that benefits horses all over. I am not a fan of the industry itself but more than any other part of the equine industry, they put back in wrt research.

 

[Over2You]

Thanks for replying to me. That is so sad. I have to say I get really annoyed about the lack of horse sports on TV. Horse & Country show some but say they can't always get permission to film at events which is really bad.

You are very welcome. Your question warranted a reply. I think it is such a shame that equestrianism is all too often overlooked. As 1stclassalan pointed out, the BBC (or those Bloody British Channels as I like to call them) seem to think equestrian sport is for "toffs". However, they will show blanket coverage of F1 racing where each of the cars cost millions of pounds (i.e., way out of the reach of most people). Horse riding is something a lot more people can do than driving around in one of those cars. They would also much rather broadcast endless repeats of Murder, She Wrote, Diagnosis Murder, and a gargantuan amount of mediocre quiz shows. Oh, and please do NOT get me started on Wimbledong. To think Hickstead was dropped this year in order to devote more time to that strawberries and cream fest.

You also mention that Horse and Country have been denied filming permits. That too is a great pity. You'd have thought show organisers would have been all too happy for the publicity. Their loss I suppose.

If I don't encounter you again, then I hope you have a wonderful Christmas.

Bye for now.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Wow, only just read this - can't believe I missed a good scrap!!
Can those who are against racing please explain to me, how why, when I took my 20 year old ex-racer to a local trainer's gallops last year - a gallops he had never been on in his life before, he lit up, came alive and showed more enthusiasm than he had done in years?? God he really must have hated it mustn't he??

On the other hand, I can also see some of the views of those who aren't keen on racing. An acquaintance of mine is friends with some of the top flat racing trainers in the country. He went to a sales recently with some of the staff from one of these yards. They left a horse behind - when acquaintance asked why, the man's reply was " Should have run faster then shouldn't it - let the gypos have it, it's no use to us". Not exactly the words of a caring trainer/owner. Trainers and owners are very caring.........when the horse is winning and making them money.

 

[1stclassalan]

Just to please you i am pulling out of this thread cos enough is enough, i was taught the traditional way of breaking in, lunging, long reining over a good period of time,but that is alll i am prepared to say!!

You pulling off, without being prepared to debate your methods won't please me at all - what makes you think it has any bearing on the subject?

I was also taught "traditional way of breakin-in" which involved every abuse right up to the same sort of bronco busting that made Monty Roberts question it - there has to be a better way. If you don't know, please be advised that Monty was treated almost the same by his father in order to make him into a cowboy - and he was - Champion Cowboy for quite a few years so I think someone who has done one sort of thing but decides to change deserves a listen.

You can certainly "break" a horse by violent means "cruel to be kind" and all that sort of thing but in my opinion they all belong in the cockpit of history now that more human methods are available and shown to work.

 

[1stclassalan]

Wow, only just read this - can't believe I missed a good scrap!!
Can those who are against racing please explain to me, how why, when I took my 20 year old ex-racer to a local trainer's gallops last year - a gallops he had never been on in his life before, he lit up, came alive and showed more enthusiasm than he had done in years?? God he really must have hated it mustn't he??

On the other hand, I can also see some of the views of those who aren't keen on racing. An acquaintance of mine is friends with some of the top flat racing trainers in the country. He went to a sales recently with some of the staff from one of these yards. They left a horse behind - when acquaintance asked why, the man's reply was " Should have run faster then shouldn't it - let the gypos have it, it's no use to us". Not exactly the words of a caring trainer/owner. Trainers and owners are very caring.........when the horse is winning and making them money.

My dad used to thrash the living daylights out of me for no other reason but that I was handy! I still go to see him and have a laugh.

Horses have a deeply rooted fleeing mechanism - I'm sure we've all departed into the distance at a speed not of our bidding when our mounts suddenly picked up the urge! But this is not necessarily because they "like" it - they are just slaves to their hormones. They sense chemicals left by other horses or even react to perceived scary places and take off in a perfectly natural desire to outdistance a threat - whether real or imaginary.

And my dear old mare was still doing this aged 33 ten minutes before she died but I didn't hit her to make her do it.

Your other point is the downside of racing - it has a lot of members who I'd gladly put in a tin.

 

[Maesfen]

I was also taught "traditional way of breakin-in" which involved every abuse right up to the same sort of bronco busting that made Monty Roberts question it - there has to be a better way. .

You weren't taught very well then if that's the case. No bullying needed at all if it's done (like Rosie says) gently and methodically as so many of us do to get an enjoyable, happy horse that's happy in its work. Your teacher had to be rubbish if they used any bullying methods, it's totally unnecessary but I wouldn't bow down to the church of Monty for anything, I wouldn't trust him with a rocking horse..

 

[1stclassalan]

You weren't taught very well then if that's the case. No bullying needed at all if it's done (like Rosie says) gently and methodically as so many of us do to get an enjoyable, happy horse that's happy in its work. Your teacher had to be rubbish if they used any bullying methods, it's totally unnecessary but I wouldn't bow down to the church of Monty for anything, I wouldn't trust him with a rocking horse..

If you aren't promoting a "bashing about" method - I don't know why you are arguing. This side of the thread developed out of Mr McCoy's undoubted misuse of the whip and that is the ONLY thing I was discussing.

That said, I'm interested in just why you wouldn't trust Monty - I don't think he comes across in life as he does in his books so I'm willing to hear the bad and any good.

 

[Caledonia]

Well how sad that a thread celebrating the most incredible jockey we have ever seen is sullied by the usual suspect and a relative newbie (or possibly a trolling alter ego of a current member ) promoting one of the biggest charlatans the horse world has ever seen.

This is the LATEST NEWS section, perhaps you'd get a better response about such old hat in New Lounge.

 

[1stclassalan]

Well how sad that a thread celebrating the most incredible jockey we have ever seen

May he's the greatest that you have seen but I remember John Francombe, ( at least on a par if not better, Dunwoody, Pat Taft and even guys like Ben DeHaan who were good but failed through politics to get enough good rides.

is sullied

It's not me that's thrashing a horse with a whip.

a relative newbie (or possibly a trolling alter ego of a current member )

Don't shoot me - I'm only the piano player.

promoting one of the biggest charlatans the horse world has ever seen.

I would dearly love you to fully explain that comment.

 

[Caledonia]

May he's the greatest that you have seen but I remember John Francombe, ( at least on a par if not better, Dunwoody, Pat Taft and even guys like Ben DeHaan who were good but failed through politics to get enough good rides.

I remember them too - I even know one of them. They might prefer you to have spelt their names correctly, however; John Francome, Pat Taffe.

Ben DeHaan was a decent jockey, as are so many journeyman jockeys that don't get the chance to shine. I'm sure he'd agree he's not exceptional enough to be compared with AP any more than plenty other unheralded jockeys.

AP has taken riding in racing to a whole new level, and that is why he is the most incredible (I didn't say greatest) jockey I have seen. He wouldn't necessarily be my choice of jockey for certain horses, but that is not to denigrate the man. We are in an era of incredible talent on the racetrack, and AP has not let riding at top level stop him working just as hard at his sport as he did when he was trying to get to the top.

I'm not about to fall into the infantile pedantry of tit for tat answering, so suffice to say that you have no REAL understanding of racing with your knee -jerk comments and reactions.
As far as the whip goes, if you have no comprehension of how useful a tool it is in keeping a horse straight, then you have no understanding of the horse in the first place. These guys are dealing with different horses several times a day, every day of the week. Some will not respond to a whip, some don't need it, some need a tap to stop them running through the wings or drifting across into other horses. Sure, AP being possibly the strongest jockey riding might not need it, but I bet most trainers would rather their jockey had a whip to possibly avert a problem than have the horse or jockey get hurt because the steering went a bit wonky.

As far as fully explaining my other comment, feel free to start a thread elsewhere, and I may or may not be bothered repeating myself for the hundredth time on the topic of charlatans. But I won't do it on this thread.

 

[Holly Hocks]

My dad used to thrash the living daylights out of me for no other reason but that I was handy! I still go to see him and have a laugh.

Horses have a deeply rooted fleeing mechanism - I'm sure we've all departed into the distance at a speed not of our bidding when our mounts suddenly picked up the urge! But this is not necessarily because they "like" it - they are just slaves to their hormones. They sense chemicals left by other horses or even react to perceived scary places and take off in a perfectly natural desire to outdistance a threat - whether real or imaginary.

And my dear old mare was still doing this aged 33 ten minutes before she died but I didn't hit her to make her do it.

Your other point is the downside of racing - it has a lot of members who I'd gladly put in a tin.

Whilst I appreciate that you are entitled to your opinion and I can see both sides of the racing argument - I love watching racing, going to the races and having a flutter. I am also fully aware of what happens to SOME horses after their career and I am not narrow minded enough to only be able to see the positives, or the negatives in racing, as I previously pointed out. I am fortunate enough to have two ex-racers and have had a third who was rehomed to a lovely person as he was rather to big for me at 17.1hh!
I am also fully aware of the flight reaction of horses but I do not wish to be told that when I took my beautiful boy on the trainers gallops, he was fleeing through instinct and fear. I know my horses well enough to know when they are happy or unhappy. He was not out of control bolting, he was enjoying every minute with his ears pricked. Afterwards, if he was ever hacked in the direction of the gallops, he would get a spring in his step and wake up. It is no different from having a canter out on a hack in a field, or would you prefer it if horses were only ever walked or moved at a pace they chose, or in fact not ridden at all??
I do respect your views, but without knowing me, or my horses, please don't tell me when they are happy or unhappy or acting through instinct. My old boy is almost 21, and despite injuries from racing and since being in racing, he is amazingly beautiful, happy, fit and still competing in dressage (or do you consider that to be cruel as well?)

 

[oldvic]

John Francome is a superb horseman and his show jumping experience showed in his ability to get horses jumping in a rhythm but he would be the 1st to admit he didn't have A.P.'s commitment to the lesser lights round the gaffes. He also rode when there was no summer jumping and fewer race meetings.
Pat TAAFFE was renowned for his work out in the country but not in a finish and of course for his association with Arkle and Flyingbolt and winning the National on Gay Trip. He would not have ridden winners day in day out like A.P.
Richard Dunwoody was a very fine jockey and horseman and was very committed but didn't inspire horses in the way A.P does on a day to day basis (my opinion although a great admirer of Richard's).
I am sure Ben de Haan would be amused at being compared to A.P. While a good rider, he didn't get more opportunities for a reason.

A.P.'s whip infringements were a long time ago at a time when the rules were changing. Strength and power have nothing to do with abuse. The man loves horses (and they him)and has a great feel for them. He seldom gets "done" nowadays. There are many horses that are inadvertently abused by equine do-gooders and it is these people that might be better suited to 1stclassalan's attention.
Caledonia is absolutely right that this post is dedicated to an incredible jockey and an inspirational man, not for making uninformed statements.

 

[Over2You]

You weren't taught very well then if that's the case. No bullying needed at all if it's done (like Rosie says) gently and methodically as so many of us do to get an enjoyable, happy horse that's happy in its work. Your teacher had to be rubbish if they used any bullying methods, it's totally unnecessary but I wouldn't bow down to the church of Monty for anything, I wouldn't trust him with a rocking horse..

Rosie did NOT say gently. Her exact words were: " i was taught the traditional way of breaking in, lunging, long reining over a good period of time,but that is alll i am prepared to say!!".

She would not elaborate on how much force she uses. Not being willing to divulge such information is a sure sign of hiding something. Not a good something either.

As for Monty. When he was just a child, he had almost every single bone in his body broken by an extremely abusive father. He also witnessed him abusing a great many horses with his 'traditional methods'. He vowed to make the world a better one for horses and humans. One without cruelty or abuse. He is not against racing, but has been a long term advocate for whip-less racing. He works with more horses in one year than most would in a lifetime. He has proven countless times that horses can still win races without one. I am a lot more inclined to believe him than anybody who thinks it is okay to thrash another living being. Besides, if you can not ride without a whip, then you should not be riding at all. I for one have NEVER used one.

 

[Over2You]

John Francome is a superb horseman and his show jumping experience showed in his ability to get horses jumping in a rhythm but he would be the 1st to admit he didn't have A.P.'s commitment to the lesser lights round the gaffes.

The same John Francome who thinks the best place for those not fast enough is in the belly of a greyhound. He is quoted as having said that in ITV's Network First racing expose (They Shoot Horses Don't They?).

A.P.'s whip infringements were a long time ago at a time when the rules were changing.

What? A lot of his bans have been within the past few years. One of the most recent being last year.

The man loves horses (and they him)and has a great feel for them. He seldom gets "done" nowadays.

So he shows that love by thrashing them? As I said he was given a ban only last year.

Caledonia is absolutely right that this post is dedicated to an incredible jockey and an inspirational man, not for making uninformed statements.

Uninformed statements? The man has been banned on numerous occasions for breaking the rules. This is FACT. He keeps on doing it, so what is incredible or inspirational about that?

 

[Maesfen]

Excuse me if I don't find the violins for him (MR) but this has nothing to do with the OP so it would be good to get back to congratulating AP on his hard earned success; that's what this thread is about, nothing else.

 

[Over2You]

Excuse me if I don't find the violins for him (MR)

That has to be one of the coldest, most callous comments written on these boards. Child abuse is clearly okay in your books.

so it would be good to get back to congratulating AP on his hard earned success; that's what this thread is about, nothing else.

Yes, this thread is about his winning the BBC award. But, it should also be open to those who question his win. I find it beyond reproach that he was even nominated. It does not say much for sport when someone who continually breaks the rules wins an award for his conduct. This is akin to an athlete being congratulated for repeated doping offences.

 

[teagreen]

Then kindly start your own thread about how cruel McCoy is and don't take over my thread. You are clearly outnumbered on this thread, so go and take your Animal-Aid-influenced views to another thread where fellow racing-haters can applaud you. I do not wish to argue with you, but why don't you conduct some research into showjumping? I've been to many an unaffiliated event where I have seen some APPAULING sights, far worse than I have seen at any racecourse, and you know that that abuse does not stop when the horse leaves the showground. Racehorses are treated 100x better than a lot of general purpose horses I know - I'd rather be a racehorse than the poor sods I saw driving past a field today, thin and out in the cold with no human contact at all, but the authorities will do nothing about them because they are not 'starving' and their owner peers at them every so often.

You don't like racing and don't like the fact AP won SPOTY. WE GET IT. Now move on and, if you think other people will like to hear what you have to say, start your own thread in New Lounge.

 

[Caledonia]

Over2you - what do you think happens to all the unwanted showjumpers? Or dressage horses?

I'd like you also to justify how a doping ban compares to a whip ban?

And finally, if you knew the tricks a few of top show jump riders employed to get horses into the air, you'd be disgusted. But instead you attack the ONLY horse sport where EVERY race is visible and therefore EVERY action is accountable.

Wake up - if you want to do something to prevent animal abuse, stand at the docks and watch the dodgy dealers trading abattoir animals back and forth and selling them on in the UK as sound, well-bred WBs. And guess what? A lot of those dealers are involved as or in the sport of show jumpers.

APs strength, unlike some other jockeys, is not whip reliant. Yet again you dive in on any racing thread you can to repeat your ignorant and offensive opinions. I think you need to learn the difference between facts and your chosen tunnel-visioned viewpoint.

 

[Over2You]

Over2you - what do you think happens to all the unwanted showjumpers? Or dressage horses?

I'd like you also to justify how a doping ban compares to a whip ban?

And finally, if you knew the tricks a few of top show jump riders employed to get horses into the air, you'd be disgusted. But instead you attack the ONLY horse sport where EVERY race is visible and therefore EVERY action is accountable.

Wake up - if you want to do something to prevent animal abuse, stand at the docks and watch the dodgy dealers trading abattoir animals back and forth and selling them on in the UK as sound, well-bred WBs. And guess what? A lot of those dealers are involved as or in the sport of show jumpers.

APs strength, unlike some other jockeys, is not whip reliant. Yet again you dive in on any racing thread you can to repeat your ignorant and offensive opinions. I think you need to learn the difference between facts and your chosen tunnel-visioned viewpoint.

I know all about the cruelty involved in other sports. Such as rapping, rollkur, and electrified top poles. However, NO other sport (besides racing), competes horses when they are still babies. Nor do they have as much wastage. I have watched show jumping for at least twenty-years, and can literally count on one hand, the number of equine fatalities I have been witness to. Whereas with racing, a similar death toll can occur at ONE meeting.

My ignorance? Look at this:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sour...&rlz=1T4ACPW_enGB386GB386&q=ap+mccoy+whip+ban

 

[teagreen]

My ignorance? Look at this:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sour...&rlz=1T4ACPW_enGB386GB386&q=ap+mccoy+whip+ban

Maybe you're looking at a different link to me, but all I can see from that is something about a one day ban in 2009, then some stuff from 1999-2004 when McCoy admits he had a problem with the whip, got heavily banned for it, then worked hard on the mechanical horse to fix it. His last ban (of one day, not for overuse of the whip, but for using it once on the wrong area) was on New Years day 2010. So a year ago. I think you'll find there are very heavy penalities for actually marking the horse with the whip - which might, obviously, have hurt it. If a horse is found to be marked, there are harsh penalities for the jockey involved. Not one or two day bans. Ever held a racing whip? Think it hurts the horse when it's flat out galloping? If you think it does, I suggest you do some proper research.

Open your eyes, go to some Affiliated and Unaff SJ competitions, or to some local riding schools. There may not be any deaths, but look at some of the sustained abuse that goes on. Racehorses are treated like kings - a lot of your everyday horses are not. Why not campaign for areas of real animal abuse?

 

[Caledonia]

I know all about the cruelty involved in other sports. Such as rapping, rollkur, and electrified top poles. However, NO other sport (besides racing), competes horses when they are still babies. Nor do they have as much wastage. I have watched show jumping for at least twenty-years, and can literally count on one hand, the number of equine fatalities I have been witness to. Whereas with racing, a similar death toll can occur at ONE meeting.

My ignorance? Look at this:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sour...&rlz=1T4ACPW_enGB386GB386&q=ap+mccoy+whip+ban

Bless you, if you think that's all than happens then you really don't have a scooby, do you?

Please direct me to;

The records of ALL horses bred to do SJ and dressage? Including those that survive and those that do not, whether stillborn or whatever?

The records that document EVERY time a horse enters or leaves a competition yard?

The records of every horse bred to SJ or dressage that then competes with EVERY time it has competed?

The records that detail the medical history of that horse?

The records that show how often that horse is checked by the vet for proof of ID every time it competes?

The records that hold the blood typing and DNA for EVERY horse that competes to prove ID?

Until that evidence and documentation exists for all horses in EVERY discipline, then the sports are incomparable.

Racing is an easy target simply because all that information is accessible. It doesn't even EXIST in other sports, so statistical comparison means nothing. If you are naive enough to not know the wastage rate in dressage and SJ horses that is hidden behind the scenes then maybe you need to find out. But I wish you luck if you choose to pursue that as your next vendetta. There are no such records.

Just as a point of interest, how young do you think some of these high performance horses are started abroad? Have you watched the sales where the (top range, very expensive ) 3yos are already performing intensively trained lateral movements?

Now, don't for a minute get me wrong, I believe that there are horses capable of working at a young age, just as there are those that are not.

Your ignorance in dismissing a lot of veterinary research into the proven fact that working 2yos actually strengthens their soft tissues and bones, moreso than those of their unworked age group, is incredulous.

Back to AP - your search was for a whip ban - what did you expect to come up? His landing on the moon? Get real - google AP McCoy on it's own, and the whip is not mentioned.

You know, I try very hard to make my argument on forums factual and not personal, but your hypocrisy and venom towards a sport you clearly know very little about makes that extremely difficult for me.

 

[oldvic]

Absolutely right Teagreen. There is far more abuse through ignorance and poor riding than what you see on the racecourse. A 1 day ban is more of a warning to be careful than anything else. I don't expect the critics of A.P. have had anything to do with the horses that A.P. has ridden so they wouldn't know how the horses come out of their races. He is incredible for his willpower, strength, humour, consistency, dedication, etc. He is inspirational for his feel and understanding of horses, compassion, ability, will to win, etc. He commands great resect from "those in the know", it is just those who don't know who fail to see his merits.

 

[CorvusCorax]

AP got 40% of the vote.
Those who think he is a cruel, horse beating monster, are clearly in the minority.
Oh dear, what a pity, never mind, The End.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Absolutely right Teagreen. There is far more abuse through ignorance and poor riding than what you see on the racecourse. A 1 day ban is more of a warning to be careful than anything else. I don't expect the critics of A.P. have had anything to do with the horses that A.P. has ridden so they wouldn't know how the horses come out of their races. He is incredible for his willpower, strength, humour, consistency, dedication, etc. He is inspirational for his feel and understanding of horses, compassion, ability, will to win, etc. He commands great resect from "those in the know", it is just those who don't know who fail to see his merits.

Very well said!
I have been lucky enough to see a few of McCoy's mounts at very close range both pre and post race. While I do admit that in his younger days he was partial to a bit of overuse of the whip, he has since learned a lot about race-riding since then and is very much a reformed character.
He wasn't champion jockey 15 times for nothing. It wasn't just his will to win that helped to secure those victories. They also derived from loyal trainers and owners and not forgetting a very good agent!
He is admired by many people in National Hunt racing and if an owner or trainer thought he would abuse a horse today just to win then they are barking ( not aimed at you, Oldvic btw).
Fact is that if he wasn't respected for his riding abilities and ability to try and secure a win without damage to a horse, physically or mentally then he wouldn't get the rides.
Trainers want winners so that it helps to pay all the yard bills and provide them with a 'status' in the sport. Most owners want their horses to achieve multiple successes not one hit wonders. If a horse was broken down physically or mentally would it be able to achieve a high success rate, the answer is no.
Trainers have to ensure that the horses keep as sweet as possible, as they are not machines and even the sanest of horses in racing can become to set in a routine. Hence why the likes of trainers such as Kim Bailey ( for example) would send horses such as Gold Cup winner Master Oats out hunting.
The jockeys that ride also have a demanding job.
It is their responsibility to look after the welfare of a horse they are riding. To not over exert an unfit horse for example.
It is not just a case of getting a leg up and riding the horse around a couple of circuits of a track.
Racing is far more complex than that.
It can take months, even years to line a horse up for a particular target or targets for a season. How could those successes take place if a horse was over-raced, abused or over-faced throughout its career.
Whilst it may be fair to say that some horses perhaps don't have that winning ability, Quixall Crossett springs to mind as a classic example. Racing 103 times under rules and only achieving 2 seconds and 6 thirds during that time. I don't see how it would be fair to say that the horse did not enjoy its racing.
If connections of horses did not look after their charges both on and off the track then would the likes of a horse like Quixall have been able to race every season from 1990 to 1999? Amazing when you consider just how little financial reward connections of that horse received as a result of his failure on the track.
I would like to hear about any other horse sport that would have allowed a horse to compete mainly for appearance money. If he had been in some other sports I can think of then the horse would have most likely been placed in a hack home if it was lucky. It certainly wouldn't have been afforded the duty of care of a racehorse for so long in other sports.
Yes horses do compete a young age in racing and I personally do have a few issues with 2 year olds racing and some 3 year olds jumping hurdles.
However the same could be said about other horse sports. It's just that most of that training of youngsters goes on behind closed doors and is not televised on TV, unlike racing!

 

[A1fie]

Brilliant post cazee and very well said.

 

[1stclassalan]

I would agree with much of your post Cazee - many other disciplines exert unacceptable punishment on horses. I have personally seen a member of the German National Dressage team merciless lay into his mount just outside the ring -( luckily I had a few words of his own tongue ) he was later cautioned by the Stewards after many complaints. I have also witnessed many cruelties in showjumping too. Most of these abuses can be laid firmly at the door of profit - bash the horse to make more money.

As a boy I actually rode in country races in the days when you would have been certified if you didn't want to thrash your mount home - it was expected, just so you looked like a jockey. I was once boxed by several farm boys who obviously objected to me beating them the week before so they laid about me aswell - the funny thing was, this frightened my horse so much we won again.

Of course all the folks in racing want the gravy train to continue and provide great stable care, food etc., on average but we still come up this business of the whip and in the case in point - although Mr McCoy has managed to win a lot of races - I do wonder whether he should be considered The "Sports" Personality of the Year in the same way I shuddered at Norman Hunter ( Leeds United) getting ( oh, my memory - it was certainly a similar award ) just before being filmed having an almighty punch-up on the pitch.