Wait for the considerate cyclist, NOT

[dixie]

Well I'm sorry that's really crap for you but I couldn't contemplate hacking anywhere near that. It's dangerous for the horse, the rider, the cyclists and the vehicles. If my hacking was like that I would be boxing somewhere or moving horse but then my horse is bad In Traffic and that just fills me with horror, can't see the fun in it nor why you should risk your and others lives just because you've a right and pay insurances and tax.

 

[Pedantic]

Not worth moving as everywhere is going the same way, a main hacking route on the first yard I was on 12 years ago is now a massive road, I haven't the time to keep getting my trailer out and driving somewhere else after work, besides towing on the roads has all it's dangers just on it's own, anyway, it's not compulsory to ride out with me, and if your horse is bad in traffic I would refuse to take you out on a hack with me anyway, my friend won't do the steps or the clanky bridge, and I NEVER push anyone into doing anything the aren't happy with when riding, whether that is going too fast cantering/galloping through to paddling in the river or anything else riding related.

I see your in Devon, maybe your lucky in that no one is cramming everyone in each others face with build build build build everywhere and you have better hacking, don't contemplate moving oop norf ;-)

 

[atropa]

Pedantic I really admire the use you make of what hacking you have and to be honest I think you're quite right about it all. We don't unfortunately all have access to safe off road hacking and whilst it's not ideal, why indeed should you be pushed out in favour of pedestrians/cyclists/cars. I really admire your courage and love watching your videos.

 

[GirlFriday]

As far as I can see cyclist is on cycle path where they are allowed to be. Riders are on pedestrian path (sign at 0.11 in the video) so probably not allowed to be there?

In any event I can see why a non horsey cyclist would assume (correctly in this instance!) that horses not bothered by that much traffic would be fine with a bike.

I've ridden that close to the A1 (mostly fenced but with access points at slip roads etc) so don't see it as impossibly stupid or even that unpleasant if just for a few min.

But would not have thought cyclist in the wrong particularly. Giving way surely not the ppint as neither sort of rider had to.

 

[Sandstone1]

I admire your attitude and your lovely boombproof horse.
I'm afraid lots of areas are getting like yours now. I live in a village but there building going on all around.
Provision is made for lots of other sports ie cyclists skateboarding tennis etc etc. Nothing for riders. We get told to keep off the roads but where exactly are we supposed to ride.
I've a young horse and wonder where it will be safe to ride in 5 years time.

 

[HashRouge]

As far as I can see cyclist is on cycle path where they are allowed to be. Riders are on pedestrian path (sign at 0.11 in the video) so probably not allowed to be there?

In any event I can see why a non horsey cyclist would assume (correctly in this instance!) that horses not bothered by that much traffic would be fine with a bike.

I've ridden that close to the A1 (mostly fenced but with access points at slip roads etc) so don't see it as impossibly stupid or even that unpleasant if just for a few min.

But would not have thought cyclist in the wrong particularly. Giving way surely not the ppint as neither sort of rider had to.

I have to say that's what I thought, though I suppose it's possible that the other half of the path is for horses. Though that seems unlikely given the look of that road! You'd think common sense would suggest to the cyclist he ought to slow down, but he IS on a cycle path so he wasn't actually doing anything wrong.

 

[ycbm]

I have to say that's what I thought, though I suppose it's possible that the other half of the path is for horses. Though that seems unlikely given the look of that road! You'd think common sense would suggest to the cyclist he ought to slow down, but he IS on a cycle path so he wasn't actually doing anything wrong.

He's doing exactly the same thing wrong as if that incident had taken place with both horse and bike on a road. He's passing far too close for a vehicle going that fast. He's breaking the law by riding without due care and attention and consideration for others, and yes, it is a law, fine up to £1000.

 

[cootuk]

The cyclist could have slowed and possibly shouted a warning that he's coming up behind.
At least they have a path which is safer than being on the main road itself and common sense would say to use that.

 

[Micropony]

Pedantic, good for you. Our hacking includes similar types of roads and for the first 8 years of horse ownership I had no transport, so you either get on with it or you'd never leave the school. Our horses are either as chilled as yours or quickly become so! We seem to encounter one dangerous idiot per hack, although round here it's unusual for the dangerous idiot to be a cyclist. Or a motorcyclist either, they tend to be pretty good, perhaps it's a 'soludarity among vulnerable road users' thing.

Sometimes I would really like to do some forcible driver education, Clockwork Orange stylee, and the people who move me to it most frequently are:

* Little old ladies who seem to be the most dangerous of the lot
* White haired men in late middle age driving convertibles. What is it with them, too much Viagra?
* Two particular local bus drivers (the rest are lovely) who always contrive to make their air brakes go "whoosh" right as they come alongside the horses. One if them once came up so close behind us approaching a junction that I was able to turn around and tap on his windscreen with my whip. He did not appreciate that. I think I was wearing my "caution young horse in training" hi vis tabard at the time.
* Ambulance drivers, who seem to be trying to drum up new business by passing at speed without switching off lights, which fair enough don't seem to bother the horses, or sirens, which do, especially if they come flying round the corner and then flying past not really leaving enough room.
* Young women chatting on their mobile phones and not even seeing the hi-vis plastered horses right in front if them.

Actually, I am not sure that roads like ours are any more dangerous than little narrow country roads where drivers come flying round every corner at 60, can't see the horse until they're virtually on top of you and there are no gardens, driveways or forecourts to duck into to get off the road if you really need to.

P.S. Pedantic, we're not even allowed in our local parks. There are 'no horses' signs at every entrance to most of them. I think it's because people don't like the droppings.

 

[Pedantic]

@Micropony, good post I find most cyclist and motorcyclist and our local bus drivers are very good, also police and ambo drivers good to date, we are fortunate to be able to ride our local parks, but I don't feel all cap in hand grovelly and grateful about it, as why shouldn't we use them, as for the droppings, funny how there is money to pick up the bottles cans crisp packets fag packets syringes fly tipping burnt out motorbikes etc etc, but a bit of horse poo which soon rots away is soooooo difficult.

The Lady I was riding with in the video is a lovely person, but can be a bit too soft, I do drum into her we are not second class citizens and have as much right to use the local services and area's as anyone else, anyone making comments such as pick up your horse shiite, the reply is "Not a legal requirement so not going to happen" and repeat as often as needed until they shut up and go away.

Remember all you good people out there in H&H land, "WE ARE NOT SECOND CLASS CITIZENS" Repeat as required.

 

[ycbm]

Actually, I am not sure that roads like ours are any more dangerous than little narrow country roads where drivers come flying round every corner at 60, can't see the horse until they're virtually on top of you and there are no gardens, driveways or forecourts to duck into to get off the road if you really need to.

This. I wear cameras front and back and I can show you several clips of the one car in half an hour on my roads which one in five times comes piling around a blind bend. Last week, I had to turn the horse sideways to stop an oncoming car who had plenty of time to stop on a wider part of the road, and there was so little room in our narrow lane that I had no option but to kick his wing mirror or put my horse down a drainage channel. I might have had an option to kick it less hard than I did, maybe?

 

[GirlFriday]

I have to say that's what I thought, though I suppose it's possible that the other half of the path is for horses. Though that seems unlikely given the look of that road! You'd think common sense would suggest to the cyclist he ought to slow down, but he IS on a cycle path so he wasn't actually doing anything wrong.

You can see the round blue sign at 11seconds into the video (it goes quick because OP is looking around so I had to pause it). Clearly shows cycle path and pedestrian path. Suspect that means OP wasn't entitled to be there at all and should instead have been on the road.

Appreciate that two wrongs don't usually make a right but I'd be cautious about complaining about the cyclists arguable care and attention when posting video footage that shows unarguably wrongly placed equestrians!

 

[cootuk]

Being on the road would mean crossing the dual carriageway with no real central reservation.
Good luck with that.

 

[c2b]

From the highway code.

You MUST NOT take a horse onto a footpath or pavement, and you should not take a horse onto a cycle track.

It's a "should not" for cycle tracks so advisory not mandatory. Although in this instance rider was on the pedestrian side.
Most cars seem to pass me at around 25-30mph on the road (although was passed once at 63mph) according to those little things that light up with the speed. I doubt very much the bike was doing anywhere near that kind of speed.
I am usually around the 15mph mark when on my bike.

I did once call out to a rider who was on the cycle track was it ok to pass her horse. I got a very snotty "but of course why wouldn't it be?" back.

 

[GirlFriday]

Being on the road would mean crossing the dual carriageway with no real central reservation.
Good luck with that.

I didn't say it was a good idea!

Simply that the horse riders are breaking the highway code by being where they are.

I have regularly crossed dual carriageways and even motorways on bridges/at junctions etc so sometimes there is a way around but I'm not familiar with OP's area. It may be that to be legal and safe that hacking route would need a bit of a re-think.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I fail to see how anyone who lavishes care, education, cash, time and effort into a horse can even consider exposing the horse to that level of danger.

 

[ester]

From the highway code.

You MUST NOT take a horse onto a footpath or pavement, and you should not take a horse onto a cycle track.

It's a "should not" for cycle tracks so advisory not mandatory. Although in this instance rider was on the pedestrian side.
Most cars seem to pass me at around 25-30mph on the road (although was passed once at 63mph) according to those little things that light up with the speed. I doubt very much the bike was doing anywhere near that kind of speed.
I am usually around the 15mph mark when on my bike.

I did once call out to a rider who was on the cycle track was it ok to pass her horse. I got a very snotty "but of course why wouldn't it be?" back.

The difference being that horses hear a car, they often don't hear a bike. I don't see why it is a big issue to expect a level of courtesy towards horse riders by slowing/calling out.
I do think what happens as the owner of a bomb proof horse and sometimes necessitating riding down a main road, or over a motorway bridge, and a bit the same with the tractor vid the other week of pedantics is that if you have your horse in that sort of situation people do assume it is absolutely fine with everything and can be ignored, even if you have selected to ride out of the gutter along said motorway bridge for safetys sake.

Pedantic has also stated many times previously that most of the paths round his way are multiuser, perhaps not specifically this one but that does rather mean those in the area should be aware that they might meet a horse on the path and therefore know how to react appropriately.

 

[Pedantic]

I also use Bus Lanes shock Horror !!!!!! ;-) if we aren't going to get catered for we have to cater for ourselves, I have paid over and over for cycle tracks and I don't even have a bike, so I'm on it, how many cyclist's have been prosecuted for riding on the pavement without prosecution ?, how many drivers prosecuted for parking all over the pavement ? everywhere you look cars all over the path, we use a short piece of cycle track for 58 seconds before being back on the road and some are wetting their pants, I'm pretty sure if we rode on the dual carriageway that would be a bigger problem as well.

Lets look at it from another angle, cyclist riding on the path, which happens an awful lot, I gallop flying past "on the road" without warning, would he be a happy bunny for my lack of consideration, I doubt it.

 

[touchstone]

I think the crux of the matter is that we are all being forced to use busier roads, each user wants to go at their own pace with little regard for others or their own safety.

It's all very well saying you won't ride on busy roads, but the rates at which development is happening mean that more riders are forced to, or we end up with a situation where only those in the most rural areas or who never venture from a school will ride. You've got to make sure that your horse is as bombproof in traffic as possible, but there will always be idiots who will put you and your horse at risk, so while I agree with Pedantic as it being something that has to be done, I wouldnt want to risk me or the horse.



With all the latest cuts I can't see the situation improving, and I honestly don't know what the answer is, people don't want to be educated about horses on the roads, they just don't want them there full stop, even more rural areas seem to be troubled by people complaining about horse muck on the roads near me.

 

[GirlFriday]

I also use Bus Lanes shock Horror !!!!!! ;-) if we aren't going to get catered for we have to cater for ourselves, I have paid over and over for cycle tracks and I don't even have a bike, so I'm on it, how many cyclist's have been prosecuted for riding on the pavement without prosecution ?, how many drivers prosecuted for parking all over the pavement ? everywhere you look cars all over the path, we use a short piece of cycle track for 58 seconds before being back on the road and some are wetting their pants, I'm pretty sure if we rode on the dual carriageway that would be a bigger problem as well.

Are you suggesting you stop paying taxes for the fire service until you have a house or yard fire?

If the cyclist was whining about what (might have) happened whilst he was riding on a pavement I'd call him out on it too.

Near me there are a few dual carriage ways that have tunnels etc and 'no horse/carriage' signs for them, makes it clear they are allowed on the other bits.

Lets look at it from another angle, cyclist riding on the path, which happens an awful lot, I gallop flying past "on the road" without warning, would he be a happy bunny for my lack of consideration, I doubt it.

Can't imagine the issue given they'd be near cars going rather faster TBH.

 

[ycbm]

I fail to see how anyone who lavishes care, education, cash, time and effort into a horse can even consider exposing the horse to that level of danger.

It didn't look particularly dangerous to me. The cyclist was in danger of being kicked in the head. Other than horses which never leave the school, I don't see this as any more dangerous than any other hack, to be honest. After all, if she was in a field or on a bridleway, the horse could put its leg down a hole and break it. One of my most dangerous moments hacking was when the horse decided to jump a gate between two fields from a standstill rather than wait for me to pull it open. Pedantic's horse certainly isn't in any more danger than my horses are on a single track lane with blind bends. Most of us don't have any option but to take some level of risk, other than never to hack out at all.

 

[meesha]

I think the issue with cyclists is the lack of noise and so sudden appearance of them, I was on a bridleway and didn't even know there were mountain bikers behind me (out of sight round a corner) next thing I knew we had gone from walk to flat out gallop as they had appeared behind and used brakes which made a very very loud squeal ! Horse in question is excellent with traffic and bikes but it was the lack of warning as neither horse not I knew they were there (managed to get horse back after couple of hair-raising 100 metres and when the cyclists finally caught up with me they looked quite shocked!). If cyclist could just call hello and slow a little that would do it. Cars slow down, I slow down on horse if passing walkers or cyclists, if I am cantering along I don't continue hammering past, I slow down, it's called manners!!!!

 

[Pedantic]

Yea that's something else, cyclist's treat our bridleways like they own them, I will stop using cycle tracks if cyclists stop using bridleways.

Before anyone starts getting wet pant's, I don't have a problem with the majority of cyclist's, just the odd ignorant one with no manners.

And again, why is it when I drive carefully past cyclist's and or hold back for for ages on bends etc, I get no wave no smile sod all, yet if horse riders aren't all wavy smiley grovelly grateful, we are classed as ignorant and riding with a piece of dog poo under our noses, when did it become necessary for horse riders but not cyclist's ?

 

[GirlFriday]

OP, if you'd =read the road sign you rode past you'd have known you weren't on a cycle track, you were on a pedestrian walkway. Assuming you're not 'ignorant' presumably you mean you /also/ ride on cycle paths?

Lots of times you make great posts that are fun to read.

On this particular one you've complained about the road manners of a cyclist whilst freely admitting breaking road rules (laws) yourself by riding on pedestrian walkways/in bus lanes/on cycle paths becasue you don't think the council cater for your hobby sufficiently lavishly. TBH that is /exactly/ the sort of attitude that puts people off riders!

 

[Lexi_]

We used to have to hack down a stretch of the East Lancs Road very similar to the one in that video to get to any decent hacking off our last yard. The horses were absolutely fine with it and probably less spooky than they are at things like terrifying cows on idyllic country lanes.

Thankfully the cyclists were a lot more sensible than the one in the video!

 

[Pedantic]

57 seconds and not a pedestrian in sight, and if there had been one we would have moved onto the cycle track, lavishly no less, we don't get catered for "at all" period.

Fishermen park for hours where it says "No waiting at any time" so riders and cyclist have to struggle past, never a ticket, people park in the slip road and on the grass to the park where it says the same and to keep off the grass verges, never a ticket, people park all over the paths everywhere you look, never seen a ticket, and your cribbing me for taking the safer option, in this case 57 seconds, maybe it's because when on the road I tend to ride properly, indicate, move into a space if holding traffic up wave thanks etc, maybe that's why I have trouble with ignorant others

 

[meesha]

I'm with Pedantic on this one, I would ride on the footpath, sometimes common sense needs to be used, much the safer option. I have once or twice gone onto pavements at side of road to avoid a more dangerous situation on the road.

 

[Micropony]

I'm with Pedantic on this one, I would ride on the footpath, sometimes common sense needs to be used, much the safer option. I have once or twice gone onto pavements at side of road to avoid a more dangerous situation on the road.

Yup, me too although not when there are pedestrians in the immediate vicinity. I don't like to, mainly because of the risk of a dropping on the pavement, which is a bit gross not to say bad PR. But I do pop briefly onto the pavement when common sense or courtesy to other road users dictates.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I am evidently a wimp then and credit to those who will ride on a dual carriageway with traffic passing them at 60. Horses for courses I guess but not for me or my horses.

The cyclist is typical of most of them, clueless and they will remain that way until an accident happens to them. We have lots around us and the numbers are increasing following some of the lanes being resurfaced. Some are polite most are not. The cyclist on the video clip has probably never seen a sharp horse and considers all horses to be steady and quiet like the ones he hurtled past. Ignorance is bliss in many situations.

 

[Leo Walker]

I dunno, I dont know if I'm in awe of you or horrified :lol: That bridge video gives me the heebie jeebies for definite though!!

I really didnt get what the problem was with the cyclist when I watched the video though. They always come past me that fast. They do almost all shout out hello when they see us so we know they are there, but they dont slow down. Its usually a convoy of them as well. They bother me more than the horse.

I wouldnt ride there, the horse is rock steady in traffic, I am not! :lol: