Walk Pirouettes

Gamebird

Gamebird

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I'm having a bit of bother trying to get these in the right place and the right size. They're fine schooling as I tend to do them loosely in the middle of the school somewhere, but being more disciplined and trying to do them at a marker as you would in a test means I find myself wandering a bit. A half pirouette off the track often ends up with me a metre or so from the track when I've finished.

Also how big should they be when the test asks for a large half pirouette? I think mine may be too small in an effort to prevent wandering!

I've looked at some youtube vids but it's hard to tell whether I'm watching a 5 pirouette or a 9 pirouette and I'd hate to emulate the wrong one!
 
Sorry I have no proper experience of these as I'm only just learning to do them myself, but Andrew Gould told me that for starting out doing them they should be 8m in diameter, and tightened up once the technique is perfect. He said it's better to do a big correct one than a small poor-quality one. In terms of actual size of competition-standard ones I didn't pin him down as that's a long way off yet for me, sorry!

Am sure plenty of people will be able to help you though.
 
Do they need to be done at a marker - they're often performed between 2 markers?

The point of the WP is to produce engagement, so therefore a shorter but active walk stride and smaller circle should be easier than a large sweeping one? I'd be aiming to keep it neat and close to the track.

But then I'm an Eventer - what the heck do I know about dressage? :p
 
Baggybreeches said:
I find that teaching pirouettes is a double edged sword with a neurotic thoroughbred!
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I should skip walk and go straight for canter pirouettes then ;)

How come even when I post a serious training question I get comedy replies? :mad:

M_M - yes, between two markers but they still need to happen in an accurate place. I shall go for small and neat and try not to drift. You may judge my efforts next week.
 
When you start doing them often it's better to ride a larger piri as the horse finds this easier and so the steps are better quality. Trying to ride them too large early on often makes it too hard for the horse so they either lose activity or step out with a hind leg. I find this exercise helps:

Ride a 20m square in walk at A, then turn down CL, on CL ride shoulder in for half the CL then ride a 1/4 walk piri from the shoulder in- the aids are v similar so basically you just keep the inside leg on but add a bit more outside rein and outside leg and move your hands fractionally to the inside (but don't cross the wither). You can then progress to riding a 1/2 piri on the CL.

Once the horse finds it easy you can ride tighter piris but I would start keeping it easy and concentrating on the quality and rhythm! I think that they are really tricky to get right as they require a lot of suppleness and engagement from the horse :)
 
meardsall_millie said:
But then I'm an Eventer - what the heck do I know about dressage? :p
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Me too!

....but what I have been taught is that the crucial thing is that the hindlegs keep moving in a consistant rhythm, & don't get "stuck". So usually start with a bigger circle, & tighten it up when you can do so without the hindlegs stopping. Also, some horses try to swing round quickly, rather than stepping round ,if you do it too tight/fast. The larger version inevitably means that one does finish slightly off the track, & I have been told to maintain the flexion of the pirouette back to the track( ie half pass), before straightening up.
 
quizzie said:
....but what I have been taught is that the crucial thing is that the hindlegs keep moving in a consistant rhythm, & don't get "stuck". So usually start with a bigger circle, & tighten it up when you can do so without the hindlegs stopping. Also, some horses try to swing round quickly, rather than stepping round ,if you do it too tight/fast. The larger version inevitably means that one does finish slightly off the track, & I have been told to maintain the flexion of the pirouette back to the track( ie half pass), before straightening up.
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Agree - the judge will penalise you most for a pirouette that 'sticks' - where the horse leaves a hind foot on the ground and pivots around it; or a pirouette where the quarters swing out.

I find practicing lots of 1/4 pirouettes is a great next step once you've got the idea of the big 8m circle ones.
 
Gamebird said:
Also how big should they be when the test asks for a large half pirouette? I think mine may be too small in an effort to prevent wandering!
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Just on this point specifically, I've been training with a list 1 judge and my pirouettes sound like the same size as yours. Her opinion was that they were large even for a large pirouette ;) But as they were 'correct', supple, in a good rhythm etc it was allowable up to a point - I get 6s for mine at the moment usually, unless there is a miracle.

I've done an exercise approaching piros from half pass - similar rationale to coming from shoulder in but it was intended to quicken the hind steps as my issue stems from an over-sized walk and a horse that goes off the aids and takes over.

I suppose it depends what you have more control over. Last night I had a breakthrough approaching from travers because apparently I can ride the shoulders round easily if the quarters are already busy and not trying to escape!
It's an obvious one but also check how you are sitting. I tip to the left sometimes when going to the right, then I lose the bend & connection and she can take a giant step forward in the middle of the piro again.
 
Brilliant thanks, will print out and digest.

Milliepops - oddly your vids were some of the ones I found on youtube - was searching for Med69. Interesting to know they're 6s, thanks.
 
My crash course in riding walk piri, needed it for the same reason as you GB, started off by HP in on a circle into the piri, to help with the engagement - if I got stuck (which I did a few times) then change of flexion and keep bring the horse round before return to big circle and start again.

You do have 2 markers in M69 to play with, but it comes up quite quick as you are in trot until the first marker, so obviously need a little time to establish the walk and early positioning.

I think maintaining the correct footfall and rhythm is priority over size, although 10m is pretty radical ;)

Mine were both reasonably neat, the first got a 7 the second a 6 because I lost rhythm slightly. If you get stuck in one you'll get slated so I'd say go as small as you can without compromising the steps!
 
C/P of an article in my mag Dressage Pure & Simple for you GB :)

One of the most difficult and unnatural movements in dressage is the walk pirouette. Quarter pirouettes appear in the later elementary tests but demi pirouettes appear at medium. To perform these well the walk needs to be collected with energy.

So what is a walk pirouette?

Performed in collected walk, the horse approaches the spot for the turn, the inside hind leg marks time and the forehand turns so that the horse turns to face the other way. A walk pirouette is a circle executed on two tracks with a radius equal to the length of the horse with the forehand moving around the haunches. In the movement, the horse’s fore feet and outside hind foot move around the inside hind, which returns to the same spot or slightly in front of it each time it leaves the ground. The horse is slightly bent in the direction in which he is turning.

To really master this movement you should be able to ride a good shoulder in and travers as well as a half pass in walk.

After warming up your horse, use some lateral work for suppling and ride some travers and shoulder in. Come back to walk and ride some half passes from the centre line. Turn down the centre line and ride a few steps of half pass left and then turn the shoulders so that you are facing the long side, then make a few steps of half pass and turn the shoulders again to make another quarter turn. By doing this exercise the horse is able to travel forward and keep the rhythm of the walk. Once he has the idea, try a demi pirouette. Half pass left, turn the shoulders, don’t try to make it too small, keep thinking forward and keep the four beat of the walk. Your aids should be exactly the same as those for the half pass but the outside rein half halts to control the shoulders. Once you have turned ride another half pass.

Of course, the exercise above is just one exercise that will help to teach the horse the movement. You can also ride a square and make a quarter pirouette each time you turn. It helps to ride a little shoulder fore into the turn.

http://youtu.be/TSQqEnQASqI

The walk pirouettes help the rider and horse to coordinate the aids which will help later on in the canter pirouettes.

Common faults.

One hind leg sticks, this is considered insufficient and will be awarded a 4.
The horse steps wide behind, the outside hind steps out, this is also a fault and usually gets a 5.

The pirouette is big but the rhythm is good, normally this is given a 6.
Resistances, loss of rhythm, lack of suppleness and balance etc. will all be marked down.

For a 10, the pirouette will have a good energy in the walk and the correct rhythm and will remain absolutely straight on the approach. The walk increases collection into the pirouette. The radius of pirouette equals the length of the horse. The inside hind remains active and returns to the ground nearly on the same spot while the forehand turns smoothly and fluently around. The exit remains controlled, straight and balanced without loss of collection or rhythm.

It is important that the walk remains 4 beat. There is a separate mark for the collected walk. Many riders make the mistake of slowing down the walk, thereby using the rein instead of the seat to collect the walk.

Remember, when training this movement keep the walk rhythm, think forwards and use the exercises to help perfect the steps. Try not to over practice, intersperse with trot and canter work to refresh the horse.

Canter pirouettes and half pirouettes are performed in the same way but are technically more difficult to ride and will be discussed in a later article.
 
Fabulous thank you. I've always used them as a schooling exercise for lateral suppleness but I suspect my schooling version and a technically correct test version may be worlds apart :eek:.

I've copied and pasted all your tips onto a word doc to print out and refer to! :)
 
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