Walk, Trot Tests and Pot Hunters

We were considering taking my mare out to do one of these on the basis that she hasn't competed since 1995 and we just want to see what will she do at a show before we fling the kid on to do the W/T test. It's not that the mare or the kid can't canter but that the mare has decided that age is just a number and she quite likes the number 5 and proceeds to act like a 5yo at home and takes off and bucks with the kid, not quite sure what would happen in a competition environment if the kid asked for canter (I'm of the opinion its and indoor school she can't go far, the kids mother and aunt have a differing opinion;))
There is a place quite close to us that has started doing them so may take her out, if I'm competing her then she will be doing it HC, if it's the kid doing it then she will compete (hopfully without the tears this time:).
To make people feel better about their canter i recently posted on BD forums the new dressage test for unsuitable horses (you can imagine), people then started posting their funny stories and one girl had said that in her first elementary there was a canter transition at K, the bell was sounded when she got to C and the judge shouted 'your meant to be in canter', the rider replied 'I know I'm still trying', so it could be worse. Another person had posted that she was going out to do her first ever Prelim test and had been very nervous, but after reading the thread about these carefully controlled dressage horses (read fruit loops that lick the bonnets on judges cars after depositing riders at X) she was much more relaxed. It's meant to be fun, if your horse is nervous about canter how do you get them past that without cantering?
 
I have to say that this is something that I see at dressage all the way up the levels, some people although they look the part and their horses may seem to go incredibly well, may well just be having a good day.

There are so many times I have watched horses do tests and thought wow they need to go up a level or 2 but then you see them another day at another venue and they cant make it down the centre line without a rear and a bronc which may un-nerve the rider alot more than they appear on the surface.

Nobody really knows from the outside if someone else has genuine reason or not for being in any particular class.
 
Trish C said:
Disagree with this. I want to do a couple of walk/trot tests with my boy. He's not a youngster but he had done nothing in the way of schoolwork before I got him. His canter isn't balanced enough yet for us to do a prelim - we're only just getting to the point where we can get his huge canter 'up' enough to get round the arena (which he does in about three strides) without doing a wall of death... but I want to get him out to competitions to give him experience of the atmosphere and see how he behaves in those environments. I'm not terrified of cantering him at all, but I think it would be nice for him to have positive experiences at competitions in a nice relaxed walk/trot test :)

I could do a Prelim without the canter, but seeing as that would then just be walk/trot, why not enter the actual walk/trot test until we're ready for the canter in tests?! ;)
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^^^this^^^

I've had to start my boy over and his canter is still really weak. I'm doing dressage on Sunday and have entered the walk and trot and i have also entered the prelim 7 as I have looked at the test as the canter is straight forward and i think he will gain confidence form doing both as he's a bit of a giraffe in new places.
 
A horse on our yard with arthritic hocks, and who is not allowed to canter on circles or in a menage does them, and yes he usually gets very high marks and the owner gets a lot of stick for it. The alternative is either to not compete at all, or to do a prelim and not do the canter.

In that position what would you do?
 
I suppose it's like me doing the 65/75 cm classes at present as I used to do the 95/105 classes but after an 18 month gap during which pony had slipped a disk, been fixed and lost her confidence, as well as denting mine hugely, it suits us to start small, build both our confidences and not get injured by getting it wrong and hitting the fence. When we were jumping bigger though, I would never have entered the 65's just to win it.
 
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Misinterpreted said:
A horse on our yard with arthritic hocks, and who is not allowed to canter on circles or in a menage does them, and yes he usually gets very high marks and the owner gets a lot of stick for it. The alternative is either to not compete at all, or to do a prelim and not do the canter.

In that position what would you do?
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To be honest I wouldn't compete at all. I have a horse with similar, and choose not to. My reasons though are that I don't find it challenging or stimulating to compete with that horse at that level (she was previously competing at novice) so to me it's not worth the effort and expense. It's not really about winning (mostly because I'm pretty damn rubbish so very little danger of that!) but I'd feel guilty if I did well, and would find it deeply depressing to get worse marks than she used to when she was in her prime before her injury.
So we just have fun charging round the forest instead :D
 
Misinterpreted said:
A horse on our yard with arthritic hocks, and who is not allowed to canter on circles or in a menage does them, and yes he usually gets very high marks and the owner gets a lot of stick for it. The alternative is either to not compete at all, or to do a prelim and not do the canter.

In that position what would you do?
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i would either be H/C or not compete tbh

Spotsrock said:
I suppose it's like me doing the 65/75 cm classes at present as I used to do the 95/105 classes but after an 18 month gap during which pony had slipped a disk, been fixed and lost her confidence, as well as denting mine hugely, it suits us to start small, build both our confidences and not get injured by getting it wrong and hitting the fence. When we were jumping big though, I would never have entered the 65's just to win it.
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Your horse has a medical reason for going back down the levels though. Just as any horse that has points showjumping or dressage can be downgraded when its a new partnership.:cool:
 
Trish C said:
Disagree with this. I want to do a couple of walk/trot tests with my boy. He's not a youngster but he had done nothing in the way of schoolwork before I got him. His canter isn't balanced enough yet for us to do a prelim - we're only just getting to the point where we can get his huge canter 'up' enough to get round the arena (which he does in about three strides) without doing a wall of death... but I want to get him out to competitions to give him experience of the atmosphere and see how he behaves in those environments. I'm not terrified of cantering him at all, but I think it would be nice for him to have positive experiences at competitions in a nice relaxed walk/trot test :)

I could do a Prelim without the canter, but seeing as that would then just be walk/trot, why not enter the actual walk/trot test until we're ready for the canter in tests?! ;)
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Agree with this. I took a horse out for a friend, as he had never been out in public. We knew his trot was quite good, but he physically could not canter more than two or three completely unbalanced strides. We thought a very low key WT would do the job. We were stunned when he behaved like a complete pro, scored over 70% and won the class. We also decided that, although he could do with some more "board practice", if we went again we would go HC as we did actually feel quite uncomfortable. :o
Perhaps as there are now so many people doing the tests, for a multitude of reasons, organisers could split the classes either by height or age of rider. It works for jumping, why not dressage?
 
Our mare is often out at W/T and prelim classes, purely for the experience HOWEVER she always does them H/C as I don't think that it is fair on others to do otherwise. I must point out that at one of the smaller local shows we go to the person announcing the entrants always points out that we are doing it H/C
 
I'm doing my second WT test on Saturday with my new boy for a couple of reasons.

1. His canter is very unbalanced, he bombs round, but bless him, he is getting much much better.

2. He is a very nervous nappy little horse so needs the experience of leaving his mates in the warm up arena and braving a strange dressage arena on his own - canter would just be down right dangerous to try when he has one on him just yet.

I completely agree with you. We did a super little test last week (apart from him napping at the gate, neighing at the other horses etc) but 5 of the 9 people in the test were also in the prelim - and of course were all placed.
 
Personally I'd like to see a couple more WT tests showing some progression - I know many places have their own.
Then to help out us lot with unbalanced, galumphing nags, an intro prelim test or two, where you canter large and don't have the struggle with 20m circles!:D
 
All that annoys me is when people use the W&T as their warm up for Prelim, i think these people should be separated to the rest of us who genuinely need the W&T (trust me i do, its taken 6 months going from scores of 44 to our recent best of 60.5!) In my head if you want to use W&T as your warm up then it should be done HC
 
I know obviously some people are pot hunting, but for example my sisters horse has been entered in W/T tests in the past, he works in an outline and to the naked eye you'd wonder why he was there.

However when he was being entered in those tests he was finally getting over rearing issues and general behavioral issues, we wanted to bring him back into shows gradually hence entering those classes. He is now doing prelims and doing fairly well. However we have the pictures/video to prove he was entered into the correct classes, even if he does look more advanced!
 
If I was planning on doing the 1st prelim class, then I would like to do the W&T first - but would always enter HC. I'd also want it to be announced when I went in, as I;d be embarrassed if people thought I was just trophy hunting!

My pony can do a really nice test, but is always spooky at a new venue - and I'm not bothered about getting a rossette for the prelim, but just want to be able to do the test I have practiced hard for and get some good feedback for next time so we can keep improving. (For example - on Sunday we did our first indoor test and my pony jumped into the arena as we were trotting round after spooking at the judges box. It took him most of that test to settle, then we were able to do the next one and get some helpful feedback and comments)

All venue's have the same problem. We went out on Sunday and did a nice prelim test (63%) but were no where near the rosettes. They were all won by people who are at novice level or above and / or affiliated and who are in the top placings at this particular venue every week.

I just do dressage for the feedback now - and don't bother looking where I came in relation to other people - just how we have improved from last time and the things we are doing better.
 
Lots of people are complaining about seeing the same "pot hunters" at the same venues. We have the same issues with our local centre which runs its own unaffiliated league every Summer. Surely it's up to the organisers to state something along the lines of "2 wins or places in any class and you must either move up or compete HC" It's disheartening and will lose them custom in the long run.
 
I did a walk and trot test with my share pony back in September because it was his 2nd dressage test and because he's a typical little pony and doesn't want to canter for more then half the arena!

But I do know what you mean because when we entered it there was a lady, on the same horse, that had won the prelim championship a couple of weeks before!
 
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Gingerwitch said:
Think you are missing the point of my post - if you can do flying changes, collected and extended trot and canter - and obviously look like you are an established partnership - why do a W&T test?
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This was me and D.

But he had had 4 months off and we didn't know if he would ever be ridden again so were just testing waters again - yes he won by 21% but to me he could have lost by 50% as far as I was concerned I was SO happy to have my little boy out and about again.

You don't know everyone's situation
 
It peeves me when the pothunters enter.

I've just taken my young mare to do an Intro - her first outing with other horses in a warm-up (there is only three of us on the yard so max she ever gets worked with at home is one other as always have someone on the ground for safety) and only her second time in an indoor school. Her canter is not established enough yet to compete so W&T it was just to get her out and doing.

Unaffiliated but I still rode HC as my rider group in affiliated dressage precludes me from doing intro. Plus I really didn't think it fair to put her up against all the local starters as the quality of her paces and work in walk and trot really would make folks think I was out pot-hunting.
Equally I had no idea whether she might just put her head between her knees and bronc.
As it turned out she was a good little horse and apart from a few wobbles and needing more forward did a decent test. If I had competed she would have won by over 10% :o
Next outing definitely a Prelim :D
 
georgiegirl said:
I didnt mean it in a demeaning or narrow minded way - all I meant was that if the horse is physically capable of cantering wether it be in balance, on the bit or whatever mine would go in at prelim. I wouldnt mind whatever mark we got for the canter work etc or wether we even managed half of it on a real greenie.
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Then you get the horse like the Dizz. Can canter, used to canter quite nicely (needed work, but okay for the level at the time). For some reason now she's lost the plot in canter (all checked - hoping it was the saddle needing reflocking). We seem to be slowly finding it again, but if I were to canter her in a Prelim, there's not much of a chance that we'd stay in the arena. D1 can and has done it quite nicely, but me, no chance yet.

The hoss is a big, flashy DWB, so no doubt people are questioning what we are up to:cool::eek::D. If possible we do a WT and then a Prelim... I trot the canter parts of the Prelim; I do the two tests so as our outing had more to it than warm up, four minutes in the arena, and cool down; and D1 does a Prelim (cantering) to help get the Dizz used to it all.

I guess the pot hunters who go in WT but don't go HC don't bother me. I'm using the 'competitions' as a framework/benchmark guide for our progress. I don't really care what/where we come. Frillies are always nice and I am very competitive, but in our case, I just need the structure for now.
 
blood_magik said:
just a thought: can you go HC in one class and ride competitively in the next?
pretty sure you cant for sj..
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You can in affiliated dressage, we used to frequently do the warm up class HC and the qualifier either open or restricted, of course affiliated dressage they have now changed the rules so you have to get a certain number of points so you can gain some of them (hopefully) by entering the non qualifying classes.
When I used to compete unaffiliated many years ago you used to get in the classes that you couldn't compete prelim if the horse+rider combination had been placed in the top 3 previously (or some variation of that).
Affiliated dressage they manage this by giving points, perhaps unaffiliated dressage shows need to put some sort of caveat in their schedules to keep it fair, but I think no matter what you do there will always be pot hunters and people not being very sporting.
There is currently someone entering all the BD prelim qualifiers and winning them to prevent other people from gaining their qualifiers, nothing in the rules to stop this but not very sporting, I would rather move up a level and win against my peers, if I don't then I have to go back home and practise harder so that next time I do better rather than stay at the same level and never push myself (but I can be quite competetive) :)
 
ah thanks :)
my RI suggested doing prelim as a warm up and then doing novice. slightly confusing because id You go HC for BS then you're HC for all classes apparently.

I love my RI's faith in jerry :p
he's never done dressage
 
Someone I know spent 10 grand on a dressage horse for her 15yr old daughter. Their first competition was at the local saddle club where I am still struggling to get 60% in a prelim. Friends daughter was in same class as me (prelim) and also the novice. She wiped the floor of course and won both classes, cue very happy mother and grinning daughter. After that I discovered that very well schooled horse had been to Hartpury competing at Novice affiliated doing well before friends bought it. The combinations next comp was with Byrds which their team also won! Big style pot hunting or what??

Just another version of the "Pony Club Mother" syndrome!
 
monikirk said:
Personally I'd like to see a couple more WT tests showing some progression - I know many places have their own.
Then to help out us lot with unbalanced, galumphing nags, an intro prelim test or two, where you canter large and don't have the struggle with 20m circles!:D
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That's a great idea - you should send it to BD.

Some of the prelims are really quite hard if your horse is a bit unbalanced. We did Prelim 10 (which is soon to be withdrawn by BD) the other week and the bits where you change the rein in canter M-K and H-F were on the scarey side!

So a couple of prelims with a short canter round the arena would be great.

I would also add that a lot of horses who are perfectly sane in walk and trot can lose the plot in canter. Mine has a tendency to throw a buck due to excitment and I have had 'well sat' as a comment in prelim tests on several occasions. We are still eligible for walk and trot class at the shows I go to having never won a first so I will continue to do these tests in an attempt to settle her before her prelim. (Also her walk is not great so we will never get high marks in w/t anyway).
 
coss said:
i would either be H/C or not compete tbh



Your horse has a medical reason for going back down the levels though. Just as any horse that has points showjumping or dressage can be downgraded when its a new partnership.:cool:
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how come the second horse has a valid medical reason and the first horse doesn't :rolleyes:.

I think you have to go with the flow and enjoy it for what it is. It is often recommended that you are schooling at least a level or two above at home to what you are competing at. So horses competing at prelim could well be schooling elementary and w/t novice going by that standard.
 
ester said:
how come the second horse has a valid medical reason and the first horse doesn't :rolleyes:.

I think you have to go with the flow and enjoy it for what it is. It is often recommended that you are schooling at least a level or two above at home to what you are competing at. So horses competing at prelim could well be schooling elementary and w/t novice going by that standard.
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i was meaning in the terms of progression - the one i said had a medical reason was likely to go back up the levels if i remember correctly. getting back out, starting at a low to get the taste and feel back then going back up. different to a horse that can only enter the lower classes and do well but yet not progress.
 
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