Walking with dog treats - what are your views?

[Clodagh]

I have only ever had really food orientated dogs, who I would never treat as they would be an instant PITA (labradors!) and completely non food based dogs whom it would not benefit (lurchers), so I cannot speak for dogs who work better for food. Young lab (not food based, oddly) worships me and only wants to please. Old lurcher (not food based) only wants to please herself so it would gain nothing, she wouldn't stop coursing for a biscuit.
I suppose I want a relationship whereby the dog works for love, not its stomach.

 

[Copperpot]

I take treats on walks. Sometimes I give them, sometimes just a pat or a good boy. Gotta keep on top of these pesky terriers. And I don't mind if other people give my dogs a treat either.

 

[{97702}]

My dog works incredibly hard for me. It would never occur to me not to reward him **with the things that motivate him**. And he looks happy when he is doing it, which is the most important thing for me

Can somebody explain to me the difference between feeding kibble from my pockets or off a track, and in a bowl? It's still the same food. And yes, he can and does work without it.

Feeding kibble from a bowl is what he requires to live & maintain his physical condition. Feeding kibble is a reward (bribery?) for work that has been done. I have my origins in an interest in falconry, which is all based on food reward - I can see entirely how it works & motivates, I just don't happen to use it for my greyhounds cos they are soppy sods who love me

 

[CorvusCorax]

Ah, you see I am just his beeeatch, lol

I have the receipts for everything though, all his things do actually belong to me

 

[Leo Walker]

As above, a kind word isn't enough for some dogs (or some breeds of dog). I am not above bribery to achieve what I want!

I have whippets, my big dog is a bit of a git and he knows what hes entitled too :lol: The puppy is young and learning and I clicker train. I always have treats and a clicker on me even in the house. Mine get grain free cat/dog kibble usually, for training classes we sometimes use hotdogs or chicken as hes expected to work harder and for longer so I make the reward higher. They dont get a treat every time, sometimes they get a fuss, or a game or a toy. Its all about balance

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I have whippets, my big dog is a bit of a git and he knows what hes entitled too :lol: The puppy is young and learning and I clicker train. I always have treats and a clicker on me even in the house. Mine get grain free cat/dog kibble usually, for training classes we sometimes use hotdogs or chicken as hes expected to work harder and for longer so I make the reward higher. They dont get a treat every time, sometimes they get a fuss, or a game or a toy. Its all about balance

^^ this, and I have a very food oriented retriever pup but he's not a pita when it comes to food and treats-he doesn't get one all the time, sometimes its fuss etc depends on what we are doing. I have a young dog who recalls perfectly and can find a square inch of scented cloth in a village hall in 11s

food didn't work with the setter (not a lot did tbf) so I am delighted to have a food oriented pup who recalls and who is very trainable. He earns his food and I don't really understand why some find that a difficult or unsavoury concept-we don't all have access to, or wish for gun dog training for our dogs.

I wouldn't treat someone else's dog, I wouldn't mind too much as this stage, if someone else treated him-kind of depends on the situation I guess.

 

[wren123]

I never carry treats on my daily walk, I reward with a kind word or a pat. I do use treats with a young dog to reinforce good behaviour.
We have always had labs though which I think are easy dogs with a natural inclination to please, as long as they get enough Exercise!

 

[paddy555]

I suppose I want a relationship whereby the dog works for love, not its stomach.

this. I want to be the number one thing in it's life not food.

Does anyone know if you have to take and use treats at dog (young dog) training classes nowadays?

 

[Leo Walker]

this. I want to be the number one thing in it's life not food.

Does anyone know if you have to take and use treats at dog (young dog) training classes nowadays?

I am the number 1 thing in my dogs life, but why should they work for free? I wouldnt!

And yes every single class I have been to or spoken too requires treats

 

[chillipup]

this. I want to be the number one thing in it's life not food.

Does anyone know if you have to take and use treats at dog (young dog) training classes nowadays?

At the puppy training classes I attended earlier this year with my crossbred pup, treat rewards were the be all and end all of everything we did. We were instructed to obtain a treat pouch to wear in class, as the amount we got through, under the trainer's direction, was phenomenal.

They seemed to want us to reward all our dogs (some pups, some youngsters) with treats at every opportunity, even if we weren't asking the dog for something even just if they were sitting still. I have never treat rewarded a pup so much. Mind you, I've not had a pup for many, many years and I suppose I'm still a bit old school, so this was something new to me. Although I thought it was overkill to reward so often.

I stopped going in the end, as my pup is not particularly food orientated and all the rewards, (cooked chicken bits, little sausages and even home made liver treats) only caused her to have an upset tummy.

I don't carry treats while out exercising my girl off lead. She doesn't like to be out of sight of me and although lacking finesse,
comes to call and gets rewarded with praise every time.

 

[Goldenstar]

one of the things I disliked when I used to take our pups to dog training was the complete dependance on treats treats for reward treats for distraction treat treats treats .

 

[CorvusCorax]

That's definitely taking things to the other extreme.

 

[TGM]

That's definitely taking things to the other extreme.

I agree. Treats should just be one of the tools in your training tool-box. Research has shown that variable reinforcement is very effective in maintaining a behaviour. So whilst I would treat a learning pup each time a behaviour is performed to start with, once the behaviour has been learned I would mix it up a bit. Sometimes a very boring treat such as a bit of kibble, occasionally a tastier food morsel if the behaviour was performed particularly well or speedily, sometimes verbal praise, sometimes a toy, or a bout of play. I find this keeps them thinking and focussed better than when they know exactly what to expect.

I don't like to use food treats in the form of 'bribery' ie showing the food and asking for the behaviour, unless it is the very beginning of the learning process. Ordinarily treats should be hidden and the dog shouldn't know you have them on your person until you give one as a reward. That way you don't get the situation where the dog will only perform for food treats.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

I had a major problem earlier today, where my elderly whippet X got into 'the wrong crowd'! Her own fault (?)
She homed in on a man walking 2 dogs, one on lead (dog aggressive, so understandably in control on leash) and a terrier off lead. Trouble is, whippet x now has a ''thing'' for most other walkers, because they have treats... and she is so gentle they give her treats..(despite my saying she doesn't need it) She has become addicted to treats! .She USED to be so loyal but now will run away to go after a 'treat person'. Is this an age thing? Her eyesight is clearly sharp, as must her nose be! so for the first time in her 12 + years she 'whippets' off to other people! Unless I can get her before she goes, I struggle to stop her going. Normally no one minds... but today the on lead dog did. Sadly we met at cross paths - i had no idea they were there. She couldn't care less what the on lead dog was doing to her, he was having a go - poor owner was trying to stop him, while trying not to trip over my embarrassment as she was trying her hardest to get into that mans pocket! One cut ear later...
She doesn't need treats... I don't like the idea of walking with treats.... it would mean she stuck to my pocket instead of being a dog, just lumbering along sniffing, doing dog things.

Can older dogs get more ravenous and obsessive over food?
Just wanted opinions and ideas.
Meanwhile the young spaniel has been brilliant..

I would be very unimpressed at being mugged by an out of control dog, regardless of how gentle it supposedly was. I have a blind dog, and this situation would have terrified him. He doesn't like being crowded by strange dogs

 

[CorvusCorax]

Ordinarily treats should be hidden and the dog shouldn't know you have them on your person until you give one as a reward. That way you don't get the situation where the dog will only perform for food treats.

Within reason. If I can smell black pudding and JWB fish and rice on someone, so can the dog
I've often used the small tinfoil trays or mini tupperware pots as hidden bingos. I do deliberately use kibble that isn't too obvious/smelly.

 

[burtie]

I never carry treats with a n established dog, but am all for using them as part of a training tool kit. I have on numerous occasions asked others not to treat my dog ( a lab!) and most of the time he ignores others with treats, but I confess if we pass right by someone calling their dog and it's ignoring them even with treat in their hand he will go up and sit nicely and stare at them as if to say your dogs not here but I am, so please!!(again I have to say no and they are fine but it's often a bit amusing!)

 

[paddy555]

I am the number 1 thing in my dogs life, but why should they work for free? I wouldnt!

And yes every single class I have been to or spoken too requires treats

Not singling you out but I know you have horses so asking you and any others with nags, I know the comment will be dogs are different from horses but when your horse has done something well, for example co-operated on opening a difficult gate do you give it a treat? After all should it work for free? I don't but perhaps others do.

 

[paddy555]

one of the things I disliked when I used to take our pups to dog training was the complete dependance on treats treats for reward treats for distraction treat treats treats .

thanks to everyone who answered my question about treats at dog training. Sadly seems my new pup next year will not be going to dog training classes much as I would have liked to for socialisation purposes. There is no way that I would "treat" a dog for distraction. Being somewhat old school I have managed perfectly to train all my dogs over the years with just praise and affection not food. I can see the purpose of a food treat/chew, food filled toy etc for the purposes of distraction if it has to be taught to be left in it's bed/cage but not otherwise.

 

[Teaselmeg]

As I have said earlier in this thread, I don't work for free so why should my dogs ? A reward for your dog is whatever THEY find rewarding, it could be food, it could be a toy/play and possibly praise.

Training with food is very misunderstood, its not about the dog only doing it when you have food, its about reinforcing and shaping the behaviour you want in a way that they can understand and then reducing the rate of reward once the behaviour is ingrained. Of course I praise my dogs, but is that really enough, do they find it rewarding enough to understand what I am asking them to do and want to repeat it ?

 

[AmyMay]

As I have said earlier in this thread, I don't work for free so why should my dogs ? A reward for your dog is whatever THEY find rewarding, it could be food, it could be a toy/play and possibly praise.

Training with food is very misunderstood, its not about the dog only doing it when you have food, its about reinforcing and shaping the behaviour you want in a way that they can understand and then reducing the rate of reward once the behaviour is ingrained. Of course I praise my dogs, but is that really enough, do they find it rewarding enough to understand what I am asking them to do and want to repeat it ?

I really love your viewpoint on this.

 

[Leo Walker]

Not singling you out but I know you have horses so asking you and any others with nags, I know the comment will be dogs are different from horses but when your horse has done something well, for example co-operated on opening a difficult gate do you give it a treat? After all should it work for free? I don't but perhaps others do.

I dont treat him for behaving as he should do, its ingrained behaviour for him to be polite at gates etc. However he is clicker trained and even though hes a big lump of a cob he learnt to do a very stompy spanish walk in 3 sessions using clicker training. I have to be careful with him as he is by his very nature a food obsessed thug, so treating him a lot would end in him becoming a monster so its restricted to specific clicker training we do. I dont treat the big dog a lot either. Hes 5yr old and established. I tend to treat him on a very random basis, almost always for recalling as he is a whippet and his default setting means he would much rather not and I want it to be rock solid. So again I randomly treat for coming to call in the house. We also do lots of fun games when he recalls. Same end result and methodology

The pup probably gets about 25% of his food as treats. Hes 13 weeks old so very much a work in progress and I am very keen on positive reinforcement. He sits, does down, gives his paw, crawls, knows stay, leave, off and touch and has just started learning bed. Its never been taught before and he picked it up within 5 mins at training as he understands positive reinforcement and the clicker lets me mark the desired behaviour. He also recalls at a hundred miles an hour every time. We are now working on reinforcing those commands but extending what we expect from him. So he leaves and hes not treated until hes left for an extended period of time for example. We started puppy school 2 weeks ago. Hes the youngest there and is miles ahead of the others, its also much easier for me to train new behaviours as he understands the process and is engaged and on board, which isnt always easy to achieve with whippets who as a rule would rather please themselves than you :lol:

As I have said earlier in this thread, I don't work for free so why should my dogs ? A reward for your dog is whatever THEY find rewarding, it could be food, it could be a toy/play and possibly praise.

Training with food is very misunderstood, its not about the dog only doing it when you have food, its about reinforcing and shaping the behaviour you want in a way that they can understand and then reducing the rate of reward once the behaviour is ingrained. Of course I praise my dogs, but is that really enough, do they find it rewarding enough to understand what I am asking them to do and want to repeat it ?

Absolutely! I dont reward for things that are established, ie he knows sit and its his go to behaviour that he offers when hes being a "GOOD BOY" so we now expect him to sit longer and stay, or sit when my back is to him, or sit and leave a treat or toy n the floor. We also mix it up. Floyd has learnt down so well that when he does it he stays down no matter what happens, so now we are trying to get a down to a stand or sit. We dont treat when he does down and then get really excited and when hes up we have a fun wrestling game.

 

[planete]

Brilliant explanation FrankieCob!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Training with food is very misunderstood, its not about the dog only doing it when you have food, its about reinforcing and shaping the behaviour you want in a way that they can understand and then reducing the rate of reward once the behaviour is ingrained. Of course I praise my dogs, but is that really enough, do they find it rewarding enough to understand what I am asking them to do and want to repeat it ?

a very clear explanation from Teaselmeg and Frankiecob.

I haven't used reward based training with the horses all the time but have used it for specific things. About two years ago I started using shaping plans for different things (loading, rebacking, long reining -even though I count myself as a fairly experienced long reiner). Its not rocket science nor is it reinventing the wheel-good trainers use them without realising but for us mere mortals they are great and better for the animals imho. I started applying them to the dogs with much success, even adult dogs like the wee rescue I took on earlier this year.

Food is a tool that can be badly used or used well like any other. For example, so many people tell me that harnesses teach a dog to pull. Of course they can be used to teach a dog to pull, but they don't have to be-I've had two dogs now that walk to heel on a harness ,one I didn't train and one I did.


I started puppy classed with a trainer of gun dogs and guide dogs this year. He didn't like treats (or harnesses lol) and allowed a free for all at the beginning of class that I am still dealing with the consequences of. His idea of encouraging a nervous and barky dog (not mine) was to shout at it an yank on its slip lead repeatedly.

At scent work classes we have 6 dogs of different ages and breeds, all working and focused on what they are doing. One is an older cav who was extremely unsure of the class set up and hall floor. His first week was spent in the kitchen doing his training away from the others-he's now training happily n the hall with the rest of us. Food is a means to an end, once you switch them on to scent only they become much more focused but initially it gives them encouragement and a reason to do what we are asking them.

 

[wren123]

Oh I do agree with the last few posters, my self taught instinct is that I use treats at the beginning to reinforce but not all the time. My expectation is that the dog behaves all the time and doesn't need treats, but I will give them occasionally.A bit like my children when they were at home they were expected to do things to contribute to the running of the household as a member of the family, their pocket money was not given as a payment for jobs but as spending money because I love them!!

I would love to learn gundog training it sounds very interesting, I must look at classes in my area.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I suppose it depends on what you are training your dog for. My dogs recall is excellent, they both walk to heel when I need them to, neither go on a lead unless there are lots of people around, they both know livestock is not there for their entertainment and they will both sit and wait if asked but I don't need them to anything more than enjoy their walks and behave around my horses and neighbours sheep, cows and chickens so I am not on their case constantly with their obedience.

 

[Clodagh]

I suppose it depends on what you are training your dog for. My dogs recall is excellent, they both walk to heel when I need them to, neither go on a lead unless there are lots of people around, they both know livestock is not there for their entertainment and they will both sit and wait if asked but I don't need them to anything more than enjoy their walks and behave around my horses and neighbours sheep, cows and chickens so I am not on their case constantly with their obedience.

I think that is an excellent point. Mine's work is retrieiving, which to her is the reward all of it's own, if she doesn't sit like a rock, for instance, she doesn't get to pick up the pheasant.

 

[Crosshill Pacers]

I carry treats as I have a very independently-minded Beagle (is there any other kind?!). Her recall is good and we walk in secluded enough an area away from roads that I can let her off the lead, but I still carry treats and practice recall/reward with her just to keep her mind on me being there - she follows her nose everywhere, although she's very protective of me so if we do see another person/dog she will run back to my side (and then howl, and howl, and howl some more. That howl is something else).

I'll be honest though, for such a brilliant area to walk dogs, and with so many dogs that I've spotted in the village, I'm surprised I don't see more people walking their dogs where we go. We only really bump into a lady and a Poodle, which Daphne is slowly growing used to meeting. But treats are always on hand regardless in case we have another rabbit scenario!!

 

[ProSocDec]

I look at many obese dogs in parks etc all have in common vets and owners and other walkers that do treats all the time, these dogs suffer as do their joints in later life, if a dogs base nature is appealed to that dog cannot be blamed for behaving like a scavenger, a dog should learn to do things as part of a team, I personally do not treat my dog with food outside the home nor do I permit vets or any other person to feed him snacks treats etc, my dog has continual positive reinforcement with praise. I have terrier which has a nature to probe and scavenge, pension due to high prey drive and survival if holed up for length of time. And in a personal note, I see my dog as a partner in our team, it feels patronising controlling him with food, I like him to be on board so it's a big no for me outside the home..

 

[PucciNPoni]

I look at many obese dogs in parks etc all have in common vets and owners and other walkers that do treats all the time, these dogs suffer as do their joints in later life, if a dogs base nature is appealed to that dog cannot be blamed for behaving like a scavenger, a dog should learn to do things as part of a team, I personally do not treat my dog with food outside the home nor do I permit vets or any other person to feed him snacks treats etc, my dog has continual positive reinforcement with praise. I have terrier which has a nature to probe and scavenge, pension due to high prey drive and survival if holed up for length of time. And in a personal note, I see my dog as a partner in our team, it feels patronising controlling him with food, I like him to be on board so it's a big no for me outside the home..

Interesting point of view. Generally speaking in my work handling dogs every day, I use praise rather than food. That is more of a statement on the fact that I need my hands to do other things rather than feeding a dog - that and I would rather not treat a dog that I don't know it's dietary needs which may differ from what I have to hand.

However having said that, my dogs do work for food. Ironically my bitch who loves her grub (and does tend to be overweight particularly since she was spayed) works for a toy. She won't even consider food when out and about because she is ball obsessed. She IS my partner and is very focused on me even without the toy or food as a reward.

My young dog is still learning the rules and very much looks forward to his food reward. The old dog likes a food reward but couldn't give a damn about it if something takes his interest elsewhere. Neither of those dogs is overweight, and in fact the youngster could do with gaining a touch.

I walk mine with treats - but it's there as a reinforcement of praise rather than a bribe.

 

[blackcob]

Zombie thread. My thinking hasn't changed a lot - a kind word and a pat on the head will not get you far with some dogs.