WARNING! - KEP riding hat safety - please open

[I.M.N.]

I can't believe they're using the fact they fall apart on impact as a selling point!

I came off at the end of last year, ingeniously managed to fall under my bolting horse (turns out KS) got kicked in the head, knocked uncontious, concussion, cracked skull, chipped spine from where my head got kicked so hard the muscles pulled a couple spinious processes off and am left with slight hearing loss in my right ear and my Charles Owen barely had a scratch on it. Not to mention the fact the paramedics were impressed how coherent I was all things considered and I was out of hospital in 3 days, which is how long they keep you in for concussion checks. Lord knows what would have happened to me if I'd been wearing one of these poor excuses of a hat.

 

[MagicMelon]

I saw something on Facebook a few days ago about KEP's with some equestrian place showing a video of a girl having a rotational show jumping and swearing her KEP saved her life. They basically ended up slagging off other makes saying KEP's had the absolute highest safety tests. Im pretty certain they sold the hats hence pushing them, either way they were basically scaring people on there into buying one. Ridiculous IMO. I'll stick with my Charles Owen's thanks.

 

[Amye]

I saw something on Facebook a few days ago about KEP's with some equestrian place showing a video of a girl having a rotational show jumping and swearing her KEP saved her life. They basically ended up slagging off other makes saying KEP's had the absolute highest safety tests. Im pretty certain they sold the hats hence pushing them, either way they were basically scaring people on there into buying one. Ridiculous IMO. I'll stick with my Charles Owen's thanks.

Yes that's the link I've just posted on the other page! They were saying how they are the only hats that also do a side crush test or something? And that made them the safest.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

RE the fall involving the KEP hat.

If it had been another helmet, another brand, I would probably have died.

I don't see where the evidence for this is?

 

[albeg]

I saw something on Facebook a few days ago about KEP's with some equestrian place showing a video of a girl having a rotational show jumping and swearing her KEP saved her life. They basically ended up slagging off other makes saying KEP's had the absolute highest safety tests. Im pretty certain they sold the hats hence pushing them, either way they were basically scaring people on there into buying one. Ridiculous IMO. I'll stick with my Charles Owen's thanks.

It'd be interesting to see a comparison of the results of tests carried out on helmets.

They keep mentioning on that post that KEP have 5 safety standards, but I haven't been able to find a post where they've listed them.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Here you go.

ETA link where I found the info. https://www.hufglocken.com/collections/kep-italia/products/kep-italia-sparkling-blue

 

[albeg]

Here you go.

ETA link where I found the info. https://www.hufglocken.com/collections/kep-italia/products/kep-italia-sparkling-blue

Thanks FC. Not sure why the page that's pushing the KEP hats so hard couldn't have listed them.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

No SNELL though.

http://www.beta-uk.org/media/safety/download/Riders - safety - hat standards.pdf

 

[ester]

I don't see why paying extra testing bodies makes it so amazing, when you arent including snell

 

[Amye]

RE the fall involving the KEP hat.


I don't see where the evidence for this is?

There isn't any!

 

[Nugget La Poneh]

Just wondering if there is an intrinsic issue with any hat that is made of panels - the way forces are distributed on impact, it would be a join that would give out first?

 

[Casey76]

Just wondering if there is an intrinsic issue with any hat that is made of panels - the way forces are distributed on impact, it would be a join that would give out first?

Probably - I fell off sand surface up with a mild concussion. I actually had a hat cover on too, which stopped the panel from completely popping out.

 

[ycbm]

Just wondering if there is an intrinsic issue with any hat that is made of panels - the way forces are distributed on impact, it would be a join that would give out first?

I believe so. In the case of a single impact fall, then engineering wise they could be safest, just as crumple zones are safe on a car. But horse falls very often involve multiple impacts, (ground/hoof; fence/ground; fence/ground/hoof; ground/ground/ground if dragged) and in those cases these hats would be very, very dangerous.

 

[cobsarefab]

A friend emailed KEP asking about how there helmets are safe and here's yheir response:
we thank you for sending us your question and comments concerning your
opinion on how the helmets should react to the impacts but perhaps you
should know some additional information before to issue your sentence.
We could speak all the day concerning the safety, perhaps also some weeks,
some months and then everybody is continuing to keep its opinion and I
respect this, but sometimes to enter much more inside the things can help
everybody to know more.
I try to explain something if you wish.
Do you remember years ago that all the cars were constructed with materials
that were very resistant to the impacts and when it happened to have an
accident and consequently a crash, they generally were not so broken in
their external parts as well as it is happening actually with the new cars?
And most of the time you had people that lost their life easier than
actually? Or that they had concussions and brain problems more than now?
I suppose that sometimes you have seen accidents during the Formula 1
racings and you see that cars are destroying but the driver is generally
safe compare to the accidents incurred long ago. Have you never asked you
why?
The fact is that more hard is the material used, more hard is also the
impact received by your head and the vibration caused are absorbed by your
head instead to be absorbed by the destruction of the material.
We have received many thanks from many riders that had very bad accidents
and they are still alive, we have had doctors that spoke to the families
declaring that they had to thank our helmets if the rider injured was still
alive, and it was also reported officially in many newspapers finding the
accident so terrible but the rider safe.
I don't want to make your opinion different if you think that I'm telling
lies, but be assured that if we spend a lot of money to do tests and
consequently to obtain different certifications that the Official
Certification Bodies give to every constructers ONLY if you pass many crash
tests required by the Standards, that means that our helmets merit to be in
the market as well as the other brands.
Every Standard actually in the market has different tests who are very
different to be pass to be certified. I personally wanted to have more
certifications to increase the safety of our helmets to assure the final
consumer that we manufacture helmets for giving the best safety that it is
possible to obtain. When I personally decided to found Kep Italia it was not
for commercial reasons but only for looking to do the best for the safety, I
have spent 10 years of my life to do this and I'm continuing to invest in
research for obtain the best possible to make helmets much more safe and
comfortable for the final consumers in order to push them to wear the helmet
in every moment when they are riding and not, also when they walk with their
horses and when they are close to them because the accident can happens in
every moment.

As I told you before, we could continue to talk about this for hours but I
don't want to bore you.
The duration of a helmet depends on several degenerative factors, including
changes in temperature, amount of exposure to direct sunlight, intensity of
use. People should check the helmet regularly and you don't find a lot of
people doing it. Cracks, detachments, warping, peeling and discoloration
show the state of deterioration of the helmets: in any case it is advisable
to everyone to replace the helmet after 5 years, because its protection
power decreases with the aging of the materials it is made of. Many people
are proud to say that they have a helmet for more than 7/8 years and do not
want to change it because they don't want to spend money and ride with
outdated helmets. Is this something right for the safety in your opinion?

I wanted to reply personally to you because when I see people that instead
to learn more concerning the safety without knowing the argument and have
the time to chat unnecessarily instead to do as you have done to contact the
manufacture for having replies for any doubts, for me it is really a missing
of time in respect to the people who really work very hard for their mission.

 

[ycbm]

That's all very well for racing cars to fall apart, but you will NEVER see the helmets that the people driving them are wearing do it, will you?

For single impact, these hats are probably very safe indeed if the glue has not got tired. For multiple impact they could be lethal.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think that KEP has missed the point as F1 cars are made to protect their drivers from multiple impacts. Also F1 cars may have crumple zones to absorb impacts these days outside the survival shell, but the survival shell itself is built to stay in one piece.

The survival cell is surrounded by deformable crash-protection structures which absorb energy in an accident and features a roll-over hoop behind the driver’s head, made of metal or composite materials. The survival cell’s flanks are protected by a 6mm layer of carbon and Zylon, a material used to make bullet-proof vests, to prevent objects such as carbon fibre splinters entering the cockpit.

https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/inside-f1/safety/cockpit-crash-tests/Cockpit_safety.html

I felt that KEP's reply was rather a lot of waffle and very little content.

 

[ester]

Doesn't fill you with confidence as a response does it :rolleyes3:

I do think it brings up an important point regarding standards and accounting for secondary impacts. Just paying for as many standards as possible means very little in my book, it very much depends what those standards are. If they are that keen on standards I think that the lack of SNELL stands out even more.

 

[DabDab]

Well, behind all the Italian romantic blurb it's a slightly odd theory. I can't see anything on the KEP hats that could be described as a crumple zone. A hat with with a crumple zone capable of resisting impact of a nasty fall would be rather large. The KEP hat seems, like any other, to rely on the materials and structure to absorb the impact in one hit, rather than the breakdown energy absorption effect you get with a crumple zone.

 

[Roxylola]

The other thing with crumple zones is they are not so much designed to protect the occupants as people on the outside. Cars have crumple zones and structural integrity e.g. side impact bars. There is a reason rally cars have a cage in them

 

[ester]

excellent point roxylola!

 

[Mike007]

The other thing with crumple zones is they are not so much designed to protect the occupants as people on the outside. Cars have crumple zones and structural integrity e.g. side impact bars. There is a reason rally cars have a cage in them

Absolute nonsense . The purpose of a crumple zone is to reduce the deceleration. Run a rally car cage into a block of concrete at speed and and you will probably kill anyone inside. The same is true of hats . The current range of approved hats for BE are rubbish . They pass tests set by the manufacturers . The polystyrene foam interior will crumple to a minimal extent . A fall at speed onto your head transmits the impact directly into the neck. The old hats with a nylon webbing cradle allowed about 1.5 cm of space and the elasticity of the nylon absorbed a lot of energy. 1.5 cm might not sound a lot but it is a hell of a lot more than modern hats give. I consider that the nerve damage I received from such a fall would have been greatly reduced by the older hats(circa 1985). The problem with the old hats was that the general public usualy failed to wear them correctly.

 

[photo_jo]

Big discussion on KEP hats (how wonderful they are), on Canterbury Equestrian Facebook if anyone wants to wade in and add their thoughts!

 

[MozartK]

They put up pics recently where the front had come off again in a thank goodness it was the hat not her head vibe, I think I even responded saying good job it didn't stand on her twice.. reminded me very much of this thread

yup KEP italia main facebook page, how is that a good thing?? I really can't imagine my HS1 doing that, or even my old out of spec air rider!

https://www.facebook.com/KepItalia/

I have forwarded the picture of the KEP hat from the Australian accident to Trading Standards, as they are communicating with KEP Italia through one of their import agents regarding the performance of their hats. They are doing this with support from an expert within the protective headwear field. They agree that a helmet for equestrian use MUST remain intact on the users head after impact, to protect from further potential impacts. Hopefully this is further evidence that the KEP helmet has potential to fall apart after one impact, which in theory makes this design unsuitable for equestrian use in the UK.

Please post any other pictures of KEP helmets that have fallen apart after impact during an accident. I can then forward to TS as this will strengthen the case to have this issue addressed. I just feel so frustrated and when I see these pictures. If KEP are so proud that their helmets fall apart on impact, to reduce injury to rider and the British Safety Standard are happy to accept this, then KEP should make this clear in their marketing. At least the user can then make an informed decision as to whether they put that type of helmet on their head.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Well done OP for continuing to keep up the pressure.

And another from the Kep Italia UK page from earlier this year.

How do Kep keep on fooling people into thinking that their products are fit for purpose?

Repeat post with fresh pics due to photobucket issue.

 

[ycbm]

Well done on fighting this MK, you are doing a big favour to rider safety. I hope these hats get banned before someone dies, or worse ends up a vegetable on life support, and their family sue KEP for selling a fundamentally unsafe hat.

Four good pictures if you Google 'KEP hat failure' and look at 'images'

 

[MozartK]

Well done OP for continuing to keep up the pressure.

Repeat post with fresh pics due to photobucket issue.

Thanks Piddlypom, I must have missed those the first time you posted. I will pass on to TS. This has been rumbling on for 2 years now and the reason TS have not put more effort into it, was due to my incident being the only incident they were aware of. Hopefully more incidents of failure will add credibility and something might come of it.

 

[MozartK]

Well done on fighting this MK, you are doing a big favour to rider safety. I hope these hats get banned before someone dies, or worse ends up a vegetable on life support, and their family sue KEP for selling a fundamentally unsafe hat.

Four good pictures if you Google 'KEP hat failure' and look at 'images'

Thanks ycbm. I just looked at google images but the only broken KEP pictures I can see are of my hat, just taken in different places as I moved around for better lighting. However, as I googled as I was amazed to see just how far my pictures went!

 

[Tiddlypom]

MK, that's a new version of my username, haven't seen that one before !

The facebook screen shots that Ester and I have put up on this thread are IMHO especially valuable evidence as KEP Italia themselves have been sharing them. KEP are clearly proud and happy to show photos of badly broken helmets. You'd have thought they'd want to disassociate themselves from the pics.

 

[MozartK]

Ooops Tiddlypom, how funny, sorry about that!

Just having the one broken helmet was easy for people to pass off as a one off but these pictures make this a much more serious issue, which should be addressed. Also as you say, promoting a hat that disintegrates upon impact is not acceptable for a horse riding helmet which is meant to remain intact on the head after a number of impacts. TS and the consultant they are using, have specifically questioned KEP about this and KEP are standing by their disintegration theory. However, unless the impact test for the British kite mark changes, this hat will continue to pass the test and this is what everyone is hiding behind, irrelevant of whatever KEP claim. These pictures need to convince them to change the impact test, so that the tester can look at the design of the hat and choose the test area, looking for specific weakness points in the helmet due to the design. I believe this is what the Snell test does.

I am also sending the pictures to BE as I believe they could intervene and advise the British Testing Standards body on how riding helmets should be tested. With the data and information they have collected from falls during investigations from BE events, they should be able to provide evidence that shows riders do not always fall on the same part of their head, each time they hit the ground. They should also be able to show evidence of secondary impacts. BE were made aware of my fall and damage to my hat when it happened but weren't particularly interested. Hopefully these pictures will make them reconsider.

 

[I.M.N.]

You're doing brilliant work MozartK. Every time I come back to this thread it leaves me in disbelief that a riding hat falling apart is a selling point, especially as I suffered a nasty kick to the head at the end of last year, that apart from slight loss of hearing in one ear has left no lasting problems. I'm in an area populated by show jumpers and I'd say 90% wear KEP hats and every time I see someone in one it makes me shudder a little.