Was any1 else upset with comments made at the furtity

[nicol1]

I was astaunded at the apparent inconistensces,what 1 was penalised for was ignored in others.Some of the score sheets i saw the comments made did not tally up with the remarks.The poor vet did his bit but on occassion was ignored by the evaluators!!I also feel they should not know the breeding of these horses.I am totally deflated by the whole thing.Good luck to any1 attending that doesnt have what they call excellant and well know breeding!!!

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

can i just say on the BEF website it does ask for people not to moan etc on the forums and to direct all complaints directly to them !!!

 

[eventrider23]

I agree with Stacey and in fact actually disgree Lucey12 - yes we got a good result but our foal and yearling both got very good constructive criticism and I also agreed with pretty much every other evaluation they did both positive and negative.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

Also seeing as Lucy12 is on here as a stranger makes me think they have only come on here to cause trouble !! x

 

[nicol1]

I did tell jan.Not makeing trouble as my youngter got 1st was simply asking as there was alot of upset people their!!!

 

[eventrider23]

certainly sounds that way Stace seeing as they have come on as quite aggressive straight from the outset. Did you present a horse to it Lucey 12? I do know from several people who's horses either 'failed' or got poorer than expected results that everyone was very helpful, with the vet taking time out to explain his findings and suggest things that could be done to help, etc.

 

[nicol1]

see above.

 

[eventrider23]

oh ok - sorry to sound funny Lucey12 - I genuinely found them to be very helpful tho and there didn't seem to be many upset people - most took the comments on the chin

 

[pinktiger]

i think freedom of speech is very important, so good or bad, we should be able to express our feelings/opinions, just because shes a stranger on here doesnt mean shes just trying to cause trouble,,, not everyone is going to agree with judges all the time, some people dont take news that their horses arent going to make it (in evaluation terms) as prof in the chosen section well!!!

 

[nicol1]

HI thats ok i was the grange in cornwall and their really was alot that wasnt happy.didnt mean to sound horbblie just felt some1 had to speak up.xxx

 

[Zebedee]

[ QUOTE ]
can i just say on the BEF website it does ask for people not to moan etc on the forums and to direct all complaints directly to them !!!

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's ok for people to praise them on a public forum, but criticisms must be kept to themselves?

I can't see any agression in Luceys posts (welcome to the forum by the way & congrats on your 1st premium!!), she's just asking a question.

 

[pinktiger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can i just say on the BEF website it does ask for people not to moan etc on the forums and to direct all complaints directly to them !!!

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's ok for people to praise them on a public form, but keep critisims must be kept to themselves?

I can't see any agression in Luceys posts (welcome to the forum by the way & congrats on your 1st premium!!), she's just asking a question.

[/ QUOTE ]



^^^^^DITTO DITTO ^^^^^^^^^

 

[Anastasia]

If people enter a show, evaluation or grading with their animals then they have to be able to take the negative and positive comments. That is the nature of the beast.

If people are not open to comments (whether good or bad) of their horses then they should not enter them.

This is the difference between UK and European horse owners. In the UK the horse owners tend to get upset if somebody says something negative about their horses, whereby on the Continent they are used to this, and use it as a learning curve to improve.

Nobody likes to hear if their horse or youngster has any faults, but having been subjected to gradings now for a lot of years I have found it to be quite beneficial and it has certainly made a difference in my breeding programme.

I would also suggest that people go and view the gradings taking place abroad and then come back and look at their own horses. We have done that several times and you learn a lot by the experience.

 

[SilverSkye]

I dont have a foal and havent been to futurity,but the way i seeit is if you go to have your horse assessed and judged by 'professionals' you have to be prepared to take there opinion be it good or bad. Having done a bit of dressage i am dissapointed when i dont feel my mark reflects my horses performance but accept the comments and move forward, no point beating yourself or anyone else up over it.

 

[nicol1]

I think thats unfair no one likes whot they have breed to be told its not good.But i was a lucky one,on the other hand i watched several told their horses werent good enough,but if a vet puts 5 with serve problems on ur sheet surley u shouldnt be recieving a 1st over others with good vet scores.xxx

 

[Zebedee]

[ QUOTE ]
,but if a vet puts 5 with serve problems on ur sheet surley u shouldnt be recieving a 1st over others with good vet scores.xxx

[/ QUOTE ]

It would seem obviously that something with those kind of vet scores / comments shouldn't get a 1st.......are you sure ??

 

[southsidestud]

i went as a watcher i didnt take anything with me but was looking to in the future if i like what i saw, for me personally it didnt really appeal to me to want to take any of mine i found it very quick in out and over very quickly, now as i havent been to one before it may be just the way it is but i found it how do i put it bland and i didnt learn alot from my day out. unless i wasnt listening but i didnt hear the breeding being announced that would have been nice to know what was coming in the ring and what disapline it was for.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can i just say on the BEF website it does ask for people not to moan etc on the forums and to direct all complaints directly to them !!!

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's ok for people to praise them on a public forum, but criticisms must be kept to themselves?

I can't see any agression in Luceys posts (welcome to the forum by the way & congrats on your 1st premium!!), she's just asking a question.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry but think it is a bit strange of a comment to put up on your first post - it wasnt exactly worded great !!

that is my initial reaction if im wrong then im sorry but just seems that there is no need to say it !??

 

[Ciss]

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[ QUOTE ]
,but if a vet puts 5 with serve problems on ur sheet surley u shouldnt be recieving a 1st over others with good vet scores.xxx

[/ QUOTE ]

It would seem obviously that something with those kind of vet scores / comments shouldn't get a 1st.......are you sure ??

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was the second vet score then perhaps a 1st Premium was a little high but if it was the 1st vet score and the vet thought that *with correct treatment* the problem could be rectified and thus gave a potential long-term soundess score of (say) an 8.5 then that would account for a rather higher score than a 5 vet mark would initially indicate.

Even so, whatever the score, each animal is marked individually and the score your horse got would not be affected by what any one else got. It is not the case of any score being achieved over anyone else -- your mark is your mark and that is it.

And if you are concerned you SHOULD have asked Jan on the day. Her answers might well ahve proved illuminating -- and a possible source of discussion for this forum had you found grounds to disagree with them. As it is there is nothing concrete to discuss and as your original post did seem a bit agressive perhaps you should try to absorb the educational, unpressured and non-stressful atmosphere that the evaluations try to create before jumping in and posting in such a tone again.

Remember, the evaluations aim to be transparent and educational so always ask first as there is always a reason that the evaluators do what they do. I can assure you that it isnt some major plot to do your (or anyone's horses) down to the benefit of others as all are viewed equally and assessed according to the suitability of the discipline concerned.

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

[ QUOTE ]
i went as a watcher i didnt take anything with me but was looking to in the future if i like what i saw, for me personally it didnt really appeal to me to want to take any of mine i found it very quick in out and over very quickly, now as i havent been to one before it may be just the way it is but i found it how do i put it bland and i didnt learn alot from my day out. unless i wasnt listening but i didnt hear the breeding being announced that would have been nice to know what was coming in the ring and what disapline it was for.

[/ QUOTE ]

ha ha you only dont want to come cos you will have to run xxxxx

maybe announcing the breeding is something we can suggest for next year ???

 

[Zebedee]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can i just say on the BEF website it does ask for people not to moan etc on the forums and to direct all complaints directly to them !!!

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's ok for people to praise them on a public forum, but criticisms must be kept to themselves?

I can't see any agression in Luceys posts (welcome to the forum by the way & congrats on your 1st premium!!), she's just asking a question.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry but think it is a bit strange of a comment to put up on your first post !!

that is my initial reaction if im wrong then im sorry but just seems that there is no need to say it !??

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to say what exactly? That in fact some people weren't happy & that from the OPs point of view there appeared to be some inconsistencies in some of the evaluations between different animals? Why on earth shouldn't that be pointed out along side all of those (like yourself) that were happy with their experiences?
Judging (sorry - evaluating) horses is not an exact science - a lot of opinions are subjective & you will NEVER please all of the people all of the time, but those who aren't happy have as much right to voice those opinions (on here or anywhere else they chose) as those who are, provided they don't venture into defamation.

 

[Navalgem]

I think breeding should be announced, makes it much more educational.

 

[Ciss]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe announcing the breeding is something we can suggest for next year ???

[/ QUOTE ]

We haven't been announcing scores this year as there were plentiful supplies of catalogues (available either on the day or downloaded from the web beforehand). In previous years we have done it so we can go back to doing it again but at Plumpton we had no mike for most of the morning so it would have been a bit difficult then and it was not fair to change the system 1/2 way through when the mike finally appeared.

As I have said before, there is always a reason why evaluators/organisers do what they do so ASK at the venue if you don't understand.

 

[Zebedee]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
,but if a vet puts 5 with serve problems on ur sheet surley u shouldnt be recieving a 1st over others with good vet scores.xxx

[/ QUOTE ]

It would seem obviously that something with those kind of vet scores / comments shouldn't get a 1st.......are you sure ??

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was the second vet score then perhaps a 1st Premium was a little high but if it was the 1st vet score and the vet thought that *with correct treatment* the problem could be rectified and thus gave a potential long-term soundess score of (say) an 8.5 then that would account for a rather higher score than a 5 vet mark would initially indicate.


[/ QUOTE ]

Showing my ignorance here (that & my computers intense dislike of PDF files......!!)
How much detail of the marks & comments can a potential purchaser see if they check the website? I know of a few people who have sold foals /youngstock on the basis of a 1st premium, but if the longterm soundness / conformation is dependent on the animal in question receiving/having received the correct treatment is there anywhere that would show up & give a potential purchaser the 'heads up' to ask whether or not the treatment had been carried out & been sucessful? What I'm trying to say is could the awarding of a the 1st lead potential purchasers who lack sufficient knowledge themselves in to thinking that all must be ok with the animal that's caught their eye? Some breeders (no one on here I'm sure) may be tempted to try & sell rather then embarking on a course of expensive treatment, & the awarding of a 1st may enable them to do that rather more easily.

(Yes everyone I know - caveat emptor applies, & people who lack the experience shouldn't buy youngstock.........that's not what I'm asking about here )

It will be interesting to see if Lucey has any further detail

 

[Ciss]

[ QUOTE ]

How much detail of the marks & comments can a potential purchaser see if they check the website?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only overall scores

[ QUOTE ]
I know of a few people who have sold foals /youngstock on the basis of a 1st premium, but if the longterm soundness / conformation is dependent on the animal in question receiving/having received the correct treatment is there anywhere that would show up & give a potential purchaser the 'heads up' to ask whether or not the treatment had been carried out & been sucessful? What I'm trying to say is could the awarding of a the 1st lead potential purchasers who lack sufficient knowledge themselves in to thinking that all must be ok with the animal that's caught their eye? Some breeders (no one on here I'm sure) may be tempted to try & sell rather then embarking on a course of expensive treatment, & the awarding of a 1st may enable them to do that rather more easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but the owner of any animal going through the evaluation receives a full breakdown of scores and comments on their score sheets and anyone going to buy a foal that is advertised as having a BEF Premium has a right to ask to see those scores. If the vendor won't show them to you, then you do have to ask them (and yourself!) why they won't.

[ QUOTE ]
(Yes everyone I know - caveat emptor applies, & people who lack the experience shouldn't buy youngstock.........that's not what I'm asking about here )

[/ QUOTE ]

and one of the purposes of the evaluation sheets is to help breeders and pruchasers make the right choices in the future so hopefully that will help them whatever degree of experience they have.

[ QUOTE ]
It will be interesting to see if Lucey has any further detail

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it is someone else's scores she is complaining about so I doubt whether she has the full info to hand. .. And of course this is the way the rumour mill starts up.

 

[southsidestud]

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[ QUOTE ]
i went as a watcher i didnt take anything with me but was looking to in the future if i like what i saw, for me personally it didnt really appeal to me to want to take any of mine i found it very quick in out and over very quickly, now as i havent been to one before it may be just the way it is but i found it how do i put it bland and i didnt learn alot from my day out. unless i wasnt listening but i didnt hear the breeding being announced that would have been nice to know what was coming in the ring and what disapline it was for.

[/ QUOTE ]

ha ha you only dont want to come cos you will have to run xxxxx

maybe announcing the breeding is something we can suggest for next year ???

[/ QUOTE ]haha but after meeting you and kaz you too look extra fit and do a good job you can run my lot up next time

will treat you too coffee or one of them manky burgers

lol no on a serious note it would have been nice to say more details the breeding and what it was breed for ie dressage,eventing, sj i personally like to hear the breeding so you can see the end result infront of your eyes

 

[StaceyTanglewood]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can i just say on the BEF website it does ask for people not to moan etc on the forums and to direct all complaints directly to them !!!

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's ok for people to praise them on a public forum, but criticisms must be kept to themselves?

I can't see any agression in Luceys posts (welcome to the forum by the way & congrats on your 1st premium!!), she's just asking a question.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry but think it is a bit strange of a comment to put up on your first post !!

that is my initial reaction if im wrong then im sorry but just seems that there is no need to say it !??

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to say what exactly? That in fact some people weren't happy & that from the OPs point of view there appeared to be some inconsistencies in some of the evaluations between different animals? Why on earth shouldn't that be pointed out along side all of those (like yourself) that were happy with their experiences?
Judging (sorry - evaluating) horses is not an exact science - a lot of opinions are subjective & you will NEVER please all of the people all of the time, but those who aren't happy have as much right to voice those opinions (on here or anywhere else they chose) as those who are, provided they don't venture into defamation.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh someones tetchy about this subject !!!!

now i would kindly ask you as well not to take the nasty tone with me - I just found the first post a bit rude especially from someone who has never posted before ??

 

[Zebedee]

PMSL at being called tetchy !!!!

I think you're a bit too sensitive to be honest!! Thats both myself & the OP who you have deemed to be nasty & / or agressive!!
How on earth can you say the above is written in a nasty tone? Any more than the OPs was really? Its a balanced assessment of previous comment coupled with a question.

If you post you must expect replies, & on an open forum not everyones going to agree with you I'm afraid, & some may even have the gall to question your posts & opinions. People who do so are not necesarily being nasty or agressive, merely seeking an exchange of views to better understand the subject. Replies that seem overly defensive on any subject are alway going to elicit reponses that ask for further justification - for instance you still haven't answered the basic question asked - Why do you deem it ok to praise but not criticise ?

(Insert lots of nice huggy smiley smilies here to defuse any further accusations of 'nastiness'!!!)

 

[nicol1]

yes an sure it also got 7 for second vet mark.

 

[nicol1]

OH my god there was nothing nasty i was just asking this is whot puts people of coming on to forums and others ganging up cause u have said something different and they dont like it!please stop i was only asking it doesnt make me a bad person this site is here for us to all enjoy to have a chat not to get at each other.thought we all enjoyed the same love are horses.xxxxx