Was I a bit harsh on this dog owner?

I don't think you were harsh at all. As both a dog owner and a horse rider, I think each party should be responsible for the safety of themselves and their animals whilst being courteous to those around them. Just as I'd pull a horse over safely to let a car past, so too do I call back and leash my dog when we pass other people or animals. Respect is a two-way street, and one can start by respecting the safety of the animals in their charge.
 
pennyturner said:
Rode with group of young kids past a couple men with a dog on Sunday. Owner half-heartedly called the dog, which ignored him completely, and he didn't follow up. Dog proceeded to approach the horses (to within a couple of feet), but was not a threat. I stopped and said that whilst our ponies were fine with dogs, they might not have been, and it could have caused an accident. Also that a horse might cave the dog's skull in instinctively, and that he really should have got control of his dog, for the good of the dog if nothing else.

His companion gave me a mouthful for being harsh. Was I out of line, or just pointing out the obvious to a complacent idiot?
He was in breach of the new dog laws after all.

I'm the first to point out to horse owners that it's our responsibility to make sure our horses are safe around dogs, but I do think it should go both ways, and it was his lack of concern that irritated me.
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As a rider I think it's always worth erring on the side of being too polite, there's enough of a stereotype for rudeness without adding to it.
 
If I see a horse my dogs are recalled, end of. My young cob is a pretty steady, easy going chap, but if he had dogs within 2 feet of him then I absolutely couldn't say he wouldn't boot them. Hes used to seeing dogs, but theres a difference with dogs he knows and strange dogs moving about very close to him. So yes, I would have told them so. My experience of the "general public" is they just dont understand that horses are unpredictable. Its not ever ok to allow your dog that close to a horse, no matter how well behaved the dog is. Your dog doesn't have to be aggressive or bother the horse, for the horse to feel threatened and lift a leg. And the consequences can be catastrophic for th dog owner :(
 
Yes, OP. You should have just continued on your merry way and waited until a rider with a less dog-tolerant horse came past. Then the dog could have approached within 2 feet of it and got kicked into next week. Dogs should be under close control at all times and if the owner can't be sure that the dog will remain at heel at all times (and which dog owner can?) the dogs should be on a lead.
We get a lot of loose dogs round here, despite land-owners having signs up and the local council having a policy of dogs being on a lead on al council-owned land, including roads. However, recently a loose dog was shot by a local sheep farmer and funnily enough, the local dogs seem suddenly to be under much better control.
 
mytwofriends said:
Unfortunately it's how horse riders get a bad name, coming across as rude and holier than thou, whether OP meant to or not.

As others have said, if the dog wasn't haring up to the horses and barking with intent, then why feel the need to comment to the dog owner at all? No harm done, except maybe the owner feeling cheesed off with being "told off". I'd have been (and I am a horse and dog owner so no bias either way).

Let's all share the countryside together.
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SpringArising said:
Agree with this. And "Call the dog warden". For goodness sake, come on! What would you say, "Yes hello, today I saw a completely harmless dog who didn't hurt me, my children or the horses. But please do something!"?
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Goldenstar said:
And we wonder why horse owners aren't liked .
Owning a horse does not conference the right to go around warning people about things that might go wrong that have not .
No wonder people think we are up ourselves .
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Amicus said:
As a rider I think it's always worth erring on the side of being too polite, there's enough of a stereotype for rudeness without adding to it.
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All of the above - there are enough non-horsey people out there who think all horse riders are stuck up rich toffs. No wonder really.
 
I've had a similar conversation with an acquaintance. I ride past her house regularly and her dog (small and barking non stop) came straight into the road yipping at my sonotbothered horse. We stayed for a chat in case the dog followed us along the road, she didnt manage to grab hold of the dog during this time. I very politely pointed out that if the dog caused an accident she would be liable (she didn't realise this)... At that point the dog ran into the road again and a BMW had to do an emergency stop! Dog is always now on a long chain when outside, and my relationship with the lady is no different. OP may well have done the man and his dog a favour if he listened and took heed.
 
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You quote the new law but seem to be making assumptions. You have to show that the dog was showing agressive behaviour which it wasn't, so I agree, you were harsh. The dog stopped 2 feet away from your horse as well. It would have been different if the dog had gone for your horse but it didn't. I have just got a new horse so not 100% sure of how he will react to dogs but a friendly warning to dog owners to this effect sees dogs put on leads immediately and no one gets upset. The dog owner is probably complaining bitterly about the attitude of local riders when his dog hadn't done anything wrong.
 
how was he in breach of the new law?!
a dog wandered over 2 feet away from your horse..
you had no right to say anything! if the dog was barking etc then yes maybe.. but the dog literally did nothing?!
no wonder horse riders have a bad name!
 
I can see that I might have come across as snooty for speaking out, although I was polite.

It's a country area and most of the dog walkers we meet have very good control, and make a point of putting the dog on a lead as a horse passes, or calling back to heel. His attitude was unusual.
 
cobalobM said:
how was he in breach of the new law?!
a dog wandered over 2 feet away from your horse..
you had no right to say anything! if the dog was barking etc then yes maybe.. but the dog literally did nothing?!
no wonder horse riders have a bad name!
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under the dangerous dog act 2014 anyone who has a dog not on a lead in a public and someone feels threatened by the dog and the owner does not get it back on a lead is breeching the new act and liable for prosecution.
 
aintgotnohay said:
under the dangerous dog act 2014 anyone who has a dog not on a lead in a public and someone feels threatened by the dog and the owner does not get it back on a lead is breeching the new act and liable for prosecution.
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But she wasn't threatened by the dog. She said so herself. Let's hope this new law doesn't get abused because people have vendettas against dogs off leads near their precious horses. This law is for dangerous, out of control dogs and is long overdue. If you're really that sensitive, stay in the arena.
 
aintgotnohay said:
under the dangerous dog act 2014 anyone who has a dog not on a lead in a public and someone feels threatened by the dog and the owner does not get it back on a lead is breeching the new act and liable for prosecution.
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That's not quite right I'm afraid. As ever the devil is in the detail! :)

The law comes in to play if the dog causes injury or if someone has reason to believe that the dog may cause them injury. So in this case the DD is not relevant as the dog did not give anyone cause to think that it may cause them injury.

It is hard because if you don't know the dog, you don't if it may suddenly become aggressive. I usually just tell dog owners that my horse may kick if she feels threatened (she's never kicked but I still say it!).
 
Frost said:
I know I'm far more strict about this than others, but in my opinion a dog owner should call his/her dog to heel whenever *anyone* - be it a horse and a rider, another dog walker or even just some lone human taking a stroll - comes close, and only allow the dog to approach the other party if invited to do so. You can never know what the situation of the other party is, and what their reaction to a dog might be. Public spaces belong to everyone, and there are e.g. plenty of not only horses but other dogs and people who are frightened of dogs, some due to previous bad experiences. And if you cannot bring your dog to heel then you have no business taking it to a public place in the first place.
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I agree with this :)
 
southerncomfort said:
That's not quite right I'm afraid. As ever the devil is in the detail! :)

The law comes in to play if the dog causes injury or if someone has reason to believe that the dog may cause them injury. So in this case the DD is not relevant as the dog did not give anyone cause to think that it may cause them injury.

t!).
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"Reason to believe".. This is going to be abused. I know one person who reported her neighbours (although she had never spoken to the owner or ever had a run in with said dogs) under the law. Took a fair while and a police visit for the police to agree said dogs were harmless. Put the owner under incredible pressure and worry for nothing. There was another post on this forum where someone was thinking they could invoke this law as they were worried that the neighbours dogs might get into her field. "Might" with no history previously.
 
aintgotnohay said:
under the dangerous dog act 2014 anyone who has a dog not on a lead in a public and someone feels threatened by the dog and the owner does not get it back on a lead is breeching the new act and liable for prosecution.
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but she didn't feel threatened, nor was the dog being threatening.. it literally just walked past about 2ft away!
 
Frost said:
I know I'm far more strict about this than others, but in my opinion a dog owner should call his/her dog to heel whenever *anyone* - be it a horse and a rider, another dog walker or even just some lone human taking a stroll - comes close, and only allow the dog to approach the other party if invited to do so. You can never know what the situation of the other party is, and what their reaction to a dog might be. Public spaces belong to everyone, and there are e.g. plenty of not only horses but other dogs and people who are frightened of dogs, some due to previous bad experiences. And if you cannot bring your dog to heel then you have no business taking it to a public place in the first place.
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This. And I'm a dog owner. My girl is a very friendly, sociable, well-behaved dog - doesn't chase horses, would never bite or hurt anyone and is fine with other dogs - however, I always call her to me when we meet other walkers, buggies, horses, dogs, etc. - she may be fine, but I don't know about the other people/horses/dogs, etc. and I see it as my job to share the space responsibly.

I am also a horse owner - and, as it happens, he is absolutely fine with dogs (has had lurcher puppy swinging off his tail in the school and dogs barking at him in his field before now - completely unfazed). But horses are prey animals - dogs are at the other end of the food chain - they are natural predators. Expecting horse owners to take full responsibility for their horses' actions and fully desensitizing them is unrealistic.

Shared space certainly means shared responsibility, but it's a darned sight easier to control a dog than half a ton of frightened prey animal - and I wouldn't blame a frightened horse for kicking out at a perceived threat.

P
 
Count Oggy said:
But she wasn't threatened by the dog. She said so herself. Let's hope this new law doesn't get abused because people have vendettas against dogs off leads near their precious horses. This law is for dangerous, out of control dogs and is long overdue. If you're really that sensitive, stay in the arena.
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I agree with this.

Likewise, lots of things are potentially dangerous and scary to horses. If we never ventured out for fear of something happening, then why do we ride these flighty animals?

Actually, I think meeting a loose dog whilst out riding without incident is a good thing (for dog and horse) If the rider automatically assumes the worst, surely the horse will pick up on that tension and it might unnecessarily over-react to a perfectly harmless dog in the future.
 
That was not harsh, my gelding hates dogs and if one goes near him we will turn and kick out so I tell dog walkers to keep their dogs away from him. He would of properly of tried to kick that dog or he would of got upset
 
TBH if we are not carefull the next law will be it's safer and more peaceful for everybody if horses never leave their yard.
Also on feeling threatened ,a dog walker ( or any one of course )can tell the police they feel threatened by a person behaviour and this could well include unsolicited advice of this type a person not used to large animals could easily 'feel threatened ' by a person on a horse they did not giving them ' advice ' while they where exercising their right to quietly enjoy the countryside .
 
I think it all depends on the tone you used and of course, written down, none of us can assess that.

My dog is so conditioned that when she sees horses out walking she automatically runs back to me and sits in between my legs. She is a bit special though and is desperate to please me - so much so that when she first arrived and we would praise her for weeing outdoors she took the weeing to be the desired behaviour so then started weeing on the living room floor in front of us and wagging her tail manicly!
 
I agree that it depends how you said it, if you were a bit snappy with them the it would be harsh, if you were just kindly advising them in a friendly way, I think it is quite the opposite- and nice of you to bother telling them!
I see so many dogs out hacking, and often just remark in a nice way that the owner needs to be careful around horses as even though the dog may be fine with horses, they have no idea if the horse is fine with dogs. My pony kicked a dog and sent it flying, it's whole face was smashed , had hardly any teeth left and a very broken jaw. The dog wouldn't go away and kept yapping and running around her back legs, trying to nip her. My insurance said no way would they pay out as it was the dog owners responsibility to keep it under control and away from the horse.
 
Goldenstar said:
Doesn't matter how we assess it , it's all about how the person spoken to feels .
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True - although some people will take umbridge no matter how politely and nicely they are spoken to. I have a colleague like that. He has reported many people in the office for "bullying" him simply becasue we have (very nicely and constructively) pointed out mistakes in his work. Took about 6 complaints for HR to realise he's the problem and not us. The person whose dog it was may not have been bothered, and the friend may have over-reacted to a perfectly reasonable comment. Without being there none of us can know.
 
I can't really put my two-cents on your situation OP, as I wasn't there.


However this is my dog off lead story:

Hacking with a friend we came out of a track onto an open grassy area (not really a field). If it's clear we go for a canter, but as we saw a man with some dogs ahead we just walked on. He had 5 dogs with him, all off the lead. He started shouting them back with some difficulty and eventually all but one ignored him and came bounding up to us. He put his attention on my friend and her pony, who thankfully just ignored it. It was just jumping around and up at the pony, not being aggressive but in a playful way. He finally got hold of it and we told him we'd be going to the top and circling back.
10 minutes later we come back down and yes, all 5 dogs are still off the lead and he starts calling them again. The same one ignores him and comes bounding up to my ride this time. He's normally not bothered by dogs, but he jumped up at him and he span to run away followed by the dog. The man was continously calling the dog but it just ignored him. After about 5 minutes I was tempted to whack the thing with my stick as it chased us around. I never said anything to the man, i figured he should have known.

One person with five dogs off lead is irresponsible, especially if one of them had NO recall whatsoever.
 
Do I think you were harsh? No, not at all, Can I see why the dog walkers thought so? Yes

Swings and roundabout's, what's said an done is said and done.

No horse/dog will always react how you think it will... friends dog, brought up around horses since a pup, started bolting after us when on a hack at a local meadow, I say bolted, More Snorty fatty run, He was a English bull haha

Its not always harsh to point thing out, I had an incident at a car park in the week, Car had parked so close to us she physically could not get in the car without bashing my car, which she did without a care in the world, I rolled down my window as I was sitting in the car and kindly pointed this out to her, she didn't care 'oh sorry' and got in the car, her partner came over, apologised checked my car and there was no damage, he was very apologetic, I just asked for her to be more careful in future,
No harm was done, No damage was done, so was I harsh? No, maybe in future she will be a little more thoughtful of others property.
 
The amount of people I find have zero control over their dogs is shocking. I literally can count on my hand the ones who can control them. My dog has no recall so I don't think he was ever off the lead before I got him (he was 9 when I got him)
 
Not harsh at all. Advice was for the safety of both horse, rider(s) and dog. Possibly the dog owner took your advice well and will think about what you told him. Bolshy friend was not the dog's owner and probably wouldn't have been as upset as the owner if your horse had caved its head in.
 
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