Waterford vs snaffle

C

Cob Life

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2019
Messages
855
Visit site
Is a Waterford or a loose ring snaffle stronger in terms of stopping?

He's in a Waterford at the moment but it's not dressage legal so I am wanting to try him in his loose ring snaffle that he was in a few years ago but I'm unsure if I will loose my breaks or not?

He does stop fairly well off my seat but if he wants to go he does!
 
A Waterford is a lot stronger than a snaffle. However, with my old Welshie I kept putting him. In stronger and stronger bit and he still ran through all of them. So went back to a snaffle. The first time he took off with me rather than using the reins to stop, I dropped them, giving him nothing to lean against, and he slowed down. Sometimes, less is more, and if he is learning to stop from your seat, then give the snaffle a go. Remember, that a bit is only as strong strong as your hands
 
EllenJay said:
A Waterford is a lot stronger than a snaffle. However, with my old Welshie I kept putting him. In stronger and stronger bit and he still ran through all of them. So went back to a snaffle. The first time he took off with me rather than using the reins to stop, I dropped them, giving him nothing to lean against, and he slowed down. Sometimes, less is more, and if he is learning to stop from your seat, then give the snaffle a go. Remember, that a bit is only as strong strong as your hands
Click to expand...
It's surely more about the hands than the bit? I have a mare who tends to back off the bit and be unsteady in the contact. She is ridden in the dressage legal Myler, but I put her in a Waterford for jumping, and found she was much more consistent in her mouth. My theory is that the Waterford wraps around the lower jaw more evenly. The difference was noticed by me and another rider straightaway.
 
Well it is and it isn't, on the face of it you are totally right but I think what EJ is getting at is that of the two bits in the same set of hands the WF would be considered stronger. Personally I would say you don't know which will work best until you try. I would switch to the LRS and if there is no joy give the bit bank a call (just google them) they are very helpful and knowledgeable. They sorted me out when I was having a right old time trying to find the right bit for the Beast during an 'iffy' period.
 
My experience is that a snaffle has a lot of problems associated with it ,such as action on the roof of the mouth and the nutcracker action.Both of these encourage a horse to lean on the bit to deaden the pain/discomfort. The waterford cannot act on the roof of the mouth and has negligible if any nutcracker action. It is said acording to accepted wisdom ,to stop a horse leaning on the bit. My view is that they dont lean on the bit because they no longer have to .In my opinion ,the waterford is a much kinder and more effective bit than a snaffle
 
Only a nutcracker mouthpeice will act on the roof of the mouth - if you choose a french link it won't - or at least not if it is correctly fitted.

The thing is that there are so many points of action in a bit. You are using a WF mouthpeice - but with what rings / shanks? Does the mare respond well to poll or groove pressure? Does she have a fleshy mouth or a more narrow one? We had an ISH who SJ'd in an NS elevator with a waterford mouthpeice becuase it gave him turns and accuracy at speed. But he did dressage in a Myler jointed D ring whihc suited him just fine. He had a narrow jaw with a less fleshy tounge and bars.

There is so much sophistication in bits at the moment. You might try ringing the bit bank and talking to an advisor about it - you can also hire most bits for up to 30 days which does help to avoid building up a very impressive collection of bits that don't work! Or you can have a bitting cosultant visit you on yard for advice.
 
All snaffles wrap around the bottom jaw. It is a myth that a single jointed snaffle hits the palate (unless the noseband is too tight)

Some horses prefer single joints, some prefer double, some prefer multiple joints.

OP horses lean / pull / tank off when they set their necks and are on the forehand, a lot of forward momentum can be alleviated by bending the horse, lateral work and coming onto a bending line or circle rather than getting into a fight.

As you haven't tried the loose ring for a while I would just give it a go and see what happens and take it from there
 
The Waterford is a nasty bit. The reason some horses go "well" in it and it is therefore "effective" is because it hurts (this, of course, is true of any bit used roughly: you don't have to be rough with a Waterford for this to be happening). The answer to your question is to try your simple snaffle and see what happens.
 
a waterford is only not kind if you dont know what you are doing with it. if you ride with light hands then a waterford is fine. i find a LRS no good at all i use a bomber lockup or a ported bomber on the flat. try a loose ring and see how you get on
 
I have used a waterford and would do again in certain circumstances but I agree with Cortez, the reason it works so effectively is because it is uncomfortable for the horse to pull against. Uncomfortable being a euphemism for painful IMO. People say horses "love" their bit because they are suddenly responsive to a light aid, well the reason must be because it is so much sharper.
 
milliepops said:
I have used a waterford and would do again in certain circumstances but I agree with Cortez, the reason it works so effectively is because it is uncomfortable for the horse to pull against. Uncomfortable being a euphemism for painful IMO. People say horses "love" their bit because they are suddenly responsive to a light aid, well the reason must be because it is so much sharper.
Click to expand...

I completely agree.
My big horse goes Xc in a Waterford and it’s very effective. It allows the rider to gallop a 650kg horse barely touching the mouth for a lot of the course. This lets the horse settle into a rhythm. But if you need to change the pace or direction quickly it allows that to happen with maximum efficiency (that does not happen in a snaffle and would result in almost continual pulling).

But let’s call a spade, a spade - this is a bit with a highly uneven surface and even if it eliminates the nutcracker action it still applies not insignificant pressure to the mouth.

This is, IMO, only a bit for fast work where needed. It is not a bit for refining flat training. Being used for dressage schooling just results in horses avoiding a true contact.
 
Waterfords are weird bits some horses really like them .
They are hideous looking things and I avoid them ....however I have know horses where it was the compete answer .
with all bits it depends on what the horse does when it’s strong, horses that lean tend to be best in a Waterford , but the best answer is teach your horse not to lean .
get it’s balance better most horses that lean have lost their balance .
 
Archie wears a waterford gag for exciting things as he completely loses his head (he ploughed through a gate when a friend tried to take him hunting in a pelham) and it's the only bit that I have brakes in and he likes. I hate it with a passion but it's what we need to keep us and people around us safe. He objected very strongly to several much kinder bits when I was trying to find something for him but seemed totally happy in the waterford from the moment it went on him. He won't tolerate anything jointed or even with a lozenge. He did all his flatwork (and still does most of his hacking) in a mullen mouth hanging cheek - again the only dressage legal bit he was happy with and again his acceptance of it was instant. It seems it either needs to be totally fixed or very flexible for him to like it.
 
milliepops said:
I have used a waterford and would do again in certain circumstances but I agree with Cortez, the reason it works so effectively is because it is uncomfortable for the horse to pull against. Uncomfortable being a euphemism for painful IMO. People say horses "love" their bit because they are suddenly responsive to a light aid, well the reason must be because it is so much sharper.
Click to expand...
He used to be in a 3 ring gag when I first started riding him (put on by his owners) so we have gradually worked our way down to the Waterford as his schooling has come on.
 
If you do decide to try the loose ring I agree re: the nutcracker, I would actually chose a double jointed with a lozenge though not a french link as for some horses even the french link can be a bit of a thing. For my leaners, my old mare in particular a loose ring with a double joint and copper lozenge was the absolute perfect fix, it had her learning very fast that there was nothing to lean on.
 
Also , even a french link ,or to be more precise , especialy a french link has more nut cracker action. (its physics duh) The waterford has none of this.
 
annagain said:
Archie wears a waterford gag for exciting things as he completely loses his head (he ploughed through a gate when a friend tried to take him hunting in a pelham) and it's the only bit that I have brakes in and he likes. I hate it with a passion but it's what we need to keep us and people around us safe. He objected very strongly to several much kinder bits when I was trying to find something for him but seemed totally happy in the waterford from the moment it went on him. He won't tolerate anything jointed or even with a lozenge. He did all his flatwork (and still does most of his hacking) in a mullen mouth hanging cheek - again the only dressage legal bit he was happy with and again his acceptance of it was instant. It seems it either needs to be totally fixed or very flexible for him to like it.
Click to expand...
This i totally understand .Totally fixed and totally flexible are next of kin. I wish more people would get this. Glad you do.
 
My limited experience of the waterford too is that it has a vile reputation but some horses genuinely prefer it. I avoided using one for years on a very light, soft mouthed horse who has always had strong opinions and responses to a variety of bits. I use a waterford for fast work/trail hunting and the horse never turns away from his bridle (as he has with other bits), moves forward confidently and with a very happy willingness and will work very nicely on the flat with it. I have had bitting consultants and tried a variety of plain bar, ported, lozenge etc but it seems to me that the complete flexibility in this horse's mouth suits him and helps him to relax. I do use a neue schule waterford with protection for his lips. I have used the bit on my wrist (!! lol) and wrapped around the soft skin inside my elbow to see how it feels and it has never felt harsh. I do try however to school and maintain suppleness and responsiveness to the aids in other ways too. I have come to see my waterford as a friendly bit for this horse. :)
 
palo1 said:
My limited experience of the waterford too is that it has a vile reputation but some horses genuinely prefer it. I avoided using one for years on a very light, soft mouthed horse who has always had strong opinions and responses to a variety of bits. I use a waterford for fast work/trail hunting and the horse never turns away from his bridle (as he has with other bits), moves forward confidently and with a very happy willingness and will work very nicely on the flat with it. I have had bitting consultants and tried a variety of plain bar, ported, lozenge etc but it seems to me that the complete flexibility in this horse's mouth suits him and helps him to relax. I do use a neue schule waterford with protection for his lips. I have used the bit on my wrist (!! lol) and wrapped around the soft skin inside my elbow to see how it feels and it has never felt harsh. I do try however to school and maintain suppleness and responsiveness to the aids in other ways too. I have come to see my waterford as a friendly bit for this horse. :)
Click to expand...
Exactly my experience.
 
Cob Life said:
He used to be in a 3 ring gag when I first started riding him (put on by his owners) so we have gradually worked our way down to the Waterford as his schooling has come on.
Click to expand...
i think you are underestimating the strength of a waterford, if you think it's a downgrade from a a 3 ring gag. and are asking whether it's stronger than a loose ring snaffle.
I use one for fast work, as my horse pulls like a train in anything else - but I am under no illusions that he goes well in it because he likes it. He goes well in it because he has great respect for it, and knows that pulling against it isn't comfortable
 
Some horses who put their tongues over the bit stop in the Waterford.
It’s a bit that has its place but I think it’s a bit that often used when young horses are struggling to find the strength they need to keep their balance and that’s a shame because the answer then is a step back and train to find the better consistent uphill balance.
trained horses who really just go because they know they can are another matter my best horse was like this she was a real handful She just sat on her bum pushed with impulsion and said we are going .
 
Auslander said:
i think you are underestimating the strength of a waterford, if you think it's a downgrade from a a 3 ring gag. and are asking whether it's stronger than a loose ring snaffle.
I use one for fast work, as my horse pulls like a train in anything else - but I am under no illusions that he goes well in it because he likes it. He goes well in it because he has great respect for it, and knows that pulling against it isn't comfortable
Click to expand...
He hated the gag but it was the only thing we had breaks in to start with, we tried a Mullen mouth Pelham which he accepted more but still didn't like it.

In the Waterford he actually wants to work forward and with me
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top