Weird confidence issue :(

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Zipzop

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I have had my horse for nine years, he is not 'easy' but not horrible just a little sensitive.

When I was younger we used to compete, jump etc and then a few years ago we had a bit of a revelation and went right back to basics and relearnt everything with a classical trainer. (We had much to learn!)

We got on with this stuff well and I had many lightbulb moments in my riding. To cut a long story short I qualified as an instructor and began teaching using these principles too. Things were good.

However, there is so much more depth to learning classical training rather than good old BHS and it has always niggled away in the back of my mind how much harder it is now to know how wrong we were doing things before when we didn't know any better. Ignorance is certainly bliss, (just not for the horse!). Gradually along the way I have really lost my confidence and in my mind I feel like I don't know what I am doing anymore.

And I feel like if I can't ride this way, which in my mind is the only correct way, then I feel like I shouldn't be riding at all.

My horse and I have had a few yard changes and medical problems recently so things have been difficult, I haven't been able to have any lessons in such a long time due to one reason of another and I'm so so lost with it all :(
 
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I wonder if, as a result of the medical issues, you actually have a more generalised anxiety, which you have 'allowed' to focus on your riding? Have you got a good friend you can talk it through with, or maybe ask the GP for access to some low key counselling.
 
I understand.I often find my self trying to practice stuff I have done in lessons then wonder if im doing it right then think well if im doing it wrong may be I shouldn't do it at all and give up till next lesson. As a fairly recent convert to dressage from a child hood of sj ponies. Working on hunt yards etc. My last horse I had as a foal and sj to a good level. Current horse I also had as a foal but stumbled in to dressage after taking him to quite intros as an introduction to warm up arenas and competing. I am not a bad rider. I seem to to be able to ride anything. Im confident with tricky or young horses ill jump any thing but I do lack self confidence in my own ability or my own mind when it comes to flat work or over think stuff n confuse my mind.
 
I ride classically and I fully understand what you are saying. There is such a deep focus on every stride you ride being in balance and even down to the immediate dismount at the end of a session. It feels like a big responsibility, whereas prior to the classical approach I might be lazy out hacking etc now I feel I am letting my horse down.
I do think it is a case of just striving to practice well, rather than berating yourself that you are not worthy. Riding should be fun and challenging and as a rider we should do our utmost to enable the horse to do and understand what we require of them.
 
I can really relate to this.
As a younger person I rode because I loved it. I was as good as anyone at my yard, if not better. If people had issues with their horses Id have no qualms about getting on and helping.
FF the years. My daughter rides "properly" and has lessons/does dressage. Everyone I'm surrounded by competes and again ride properly.
I had a very good lesson in which I realised everything I did was wrong!
Confidence in my ability is now pretty Rock bottom. I've seen friends have trouble with horses I know I could probably sort but no way I'd ever dream of offering anymore.
I won't ride in front of or with anyone Incase they see how badly I ride. It's got to the point I stopped trotting on the rd recently when someone in a "horsey looking car" passed Incase i was on the wrong diagonal or my lower leg position was bad!!!!
I hate it and although I've not ridden in a month due to horse lameness I'm not missing the pressure of having to!
I can't have lessons because it involves riding in front of someone and doing things I might be unable to do.
I also have a hip problem which doesn't help as it leaves me feeling a bit unsafe if anything happened.
Will be interested to read your other replies x
 
YasandCrystal said:
I ride classically and I fully understand what you are saying. There is such a deep focus on every stride you ride being in balance and even down to the immediate dismount at the end of a session. It feels like a big responsibility, whereas prior to the classical approach I might be lazy out hacking etc now I feel I am letting my horse down.
I do think it is a case of just striving to practice well, rather than berating yourself that you are not worthy. Riding should be fun and challenging and as a rider we should do our utmost to enable the horse to do and understand what we require of them.
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Thanks for all the lovely replies, it's nice to know I'm not alone and that people understand. I too am not a bad rider. So I've been told, but this above sums it up perfectly. When you realise how important every detail is there is no going back to the 'old' ways and yes you do feel like you have so much responsibility for getting it right and making sure you are doing the best you can.
I once heard a saying, 'you are either doing harm or doing good there is no neutral in riding.' This is so much responsibility and means there are no more relaxing hacks just slopping along on a loose rein, because this is then not beneficial to the horse.

Since relearning things, my horse and I have barely reached canter again as he struggles massively with rebalancing off the forehand. Sometimes I long for some fun and just to have a jump and a Canter without worrying but sadly he is just not the sort of horse that I can do this on. I feel stuck without any confidence and with no means to just have a 'blast' and get rid of some cobwebs.
 
Zipzop said:
And I feel like if I can't ride this way, which in my mind is the only correct way, then I feel like I shouldn't be riding at all.

My horse and I have had a few yard changes and medical problems recently so things have been difficult, I haven't been able to have any lessons in such a long time due to one reason of another and I'm so so lost with it all :(
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Your comment about if you can't do it properly don't do it at all really rings true with me. I am not even an instructor or high up in the world of competition, but I ride to an ok standard. I have days where I feel like, if I can't do it, I shouldn't bother because it isn't fair on the horse, and I worry when I get things wrong. However, when I sit back and reflect, I realise I am riding to the best of my ability at the present time, I always try to ride with tact, and if something is going wrong, I will stop, regroup, rethink and start again. I will always end on a good note and will always strive to improve one tiny thing, even if my main goal hasn't quite come off. I don't think there is much more I could do, and as long as I try to ride in balance, off the leg, light hand etc as to make things as easy for the horse to achieve what I ask as possible, then that is a good thing.

That is all we can do as riders, but I think the fact you have even posted this, shows that you are a conscientious and thoughtful owner/rider/instructor, who would strive to do right by their horse. That in itself is worth its weight in gold, so hold on to that thought, and the fact you are trying to achieve the very best for them.

I certainly agree with YorksG too. I have suffered from anxiety (and still occasionally do). On some days it does affect my riding, as I knock my own knowledge and ability, as well as my skill to deal with whatever I am riding. Certainly worth speaking to your GP if you do feel that it could be this impacting on your life, and riding.
 
I very much relate to what poiuytrewq has said. I was a late starter to riding, hadn`t a clue, rarely ever saw a horse in my youth. I went on a ride with friends one day and was smitten. Had some basic lessons which, in retrospect, taught me little but did help develop a good seat. I then had a horse on loan and we went everywhere together, just happy hackers but time and distance were no obstacle. I would get up, saddle up, load the saddle bags and off we`d go. It was amazing! We were totally at one with each other and I had no fear whatsoever.

The owner took my loan horse back and I was devastated. I started having `proper` lessons on other horses and realised that I knew absolutely nothing at all about riding. I had natural balance and a good position but knew naff all else. I totally lost my confidence. One day I was in a lesson and was asked to go forward from trot to canter. I froze in my belief that I was rubbish, fell off and shattered my leg and knee.

Now, decades on and with a knee that is so arthritic that I can barely move some days, I wish I had never had a `proper` lesson. I wish I had continuing riding in harmony with the flow and feel of the horse with no pressure to do things this way or that, just to enjoy each other`s company and the open countryside or the beach. It all seemed so easy back then. I wish I`d never complicated things and I wish I hadn`t lost my confidence. I am told I am a good rider but it seems to make no difference to my confidence.

An entirely different perspective OP but I do understand the confidence issue and the feeling of getting it wrong.
 
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I teach many people with issues like this, you are not on your own. You have to ride as you feel best, not as a text book, you know your horse, enjoy riding, stop thinking so much for a while. I find the best thing is to have a plan before riding, create some interesting exercises to do and go in there and think about what you have to do. Hope this helps. Tina (I am a freelance instructor based in Berkswell if you need further help)
 
tinap1 said:
I teach many people with issues like this, you are not on your own. You have to ride as you feel best, not as a text book, you know your horse, enjoy riding, stop thinking so much for a while. I find the best thing is to have a plan before riding, create some interesting exercises to do and go in there and think about what you have to do. Hope this helps. Tina (I am a freelance instructor based in Berkswell if you need further help)
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^^^^

This !

Surely riding should be about having some fun too! Yes it is important to ride well and so on and so forth, but if trying to ride perfectly the whole time is sapping your enjoyment I can not see the point of it. Surely all this correctness is putting a stain on you and more importantly on your horse, where is the time you feel the wind on your face and allow your horse the opportunity to enjoy his time under saddle. I'm not saying letting them slob along but just allow them to relax and look around, hacking should be a release from the hard school work surely, so that when your back in the school you can be more focused. This is coming from someone who has to do most of their schooling on the road but then I have to hire schools, I do not expect my horse to "work" the whole way around, at some point I give him the reins and say GO GO Go!! Then we have some fun.
 
This !

Surely riding should be about having some fun too! Yes it is important to ride well and so on and so forth, but if trying to ride perfectly the whole time is sapping your enjoyment I can not see the point of it. Surely all this correctness is putting a stain on you and more importantly on your horse, where is the time you feel the wind on your face and allow your horse the opportunity to enjoy his time under saddle. I'm not saying letting them slob along but just allow them to relax and look around, hacking should be a release from the hard school work surely, so that when your back in the school you can be more focused. This is coming from someone who has to do most of their schooling on the road but then I have to hire schools, I do not expect my horse to "work" the whole way around, at some point I give him the reins and say GO GO Go!! Then we have some fun.[/QUOTE]

I certainly agree riding should be fun otherwise what's the point? However, my horse, if not ridden correctly, absolutely cannot cope. He falls on his forehand, he runs away with me, he gets so strong we just cannot stop and that is no fun at all.

I appreciate a lot of horses can and will go happily, steadily, in all paces and jump easily on the forehand without consequence even when rider is not completely correct, but what when you don't have one of these steady neddies?
What options are there for those of us in these categories? We can't just let loose, give the reins away and go because It simply is a nightmare!
 
Zipzop said:
I once heard a saying, 'you are either doing harm or doing good there is no neutral in riding.' This is so much responsibility and means there are no more relaxing hacks just slopping along on a loose rein, because this is then not beneficial to the horse.

.
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I disagree with this completely, my mare and i are learning how to ride properly and it's hard work for her in the school (and me, also a returner to riding after a long gap). We jointly need to ride on a hack relaxed and without pressure, she needs the downtime and so do I, it is so beneficial for us as a partnership and I wouldn't ride at all if it was just in circles and always worrying about my position, her position etc etc. too dull, life's too short.

Give you and your horse a break, find the fun, even Valegro gets hacked out on a loose rein by his groom, Carl says it keeps him sane!
 
I rarely post on here but felt I had to respond to this. The facts of all of this are riding is supposed to be FUN. Very few of us are ever going to achieve dizzy heights of competition greatness but it doesn't mean we can't have FUN and achieve our own goals whatever they may be.

I personally hate with a passion those instructors that make their clients feel inadequate and undermine the client's confidence and self belief just so they can boost their own egos (and probably bank balance) so the client cannot operate without the instructor instructing their every move.... this is NOT a healthy client/instructor relationship. A good instructor should motivate, inspire, create confidence, self belief and more importantly independence of thought and action in their clients not over reliance.

I don't subscribe to the concept of you are either doing harm/good, what utter tosh.... you can just be in harmony bimbling along. And for the record the horses have to learn self reliance/confidence and how to just get on with it.... you can't ride every stride out hunting/eventing/hacking etc. you'd be exhausted after 100 yards (am too old for metric) horse has to look out for itself and think for itself otherwise rider would drive the poor horse mad pecking its head the whole time.

Maybe my senile old brain is just too old for all of this over analysis but hey ho me and my horses are more than happy and I'll now bog off chuck some tack on which ever neddy I happen to catch first, clamber aboard (joints and infirmity permitting) and go for a blast around the countryside not giving a flying fig what anyone else thinks about me.... and all of the above will be achieved accompanied with a big fat grin and manic giggling! So long as I keep the horse between me and the ground its officially been a good day
 
HipoH said:
I rarely post on here but felt I had to respond to this. The facts of all of this are riding is supposed to be FUN. Very few of us are ever going to achieve dizzy heights of competition greatness but it doesn't mean we can't have FUN and achieve our own goals whatever they may be.

I personally hate with a passion those instructors that make their clients feel inadequate and undermine the client's confidence and self belief just so they can boost their own egos (and probably bank balance) so the client cannot operate without the instructor instructing their every move.... this is NOT a healthy client/instructor relationship. A good instructor should motivate, inspire, create confidence, self belief and more importantly independence of thought and action in their clients not over reliance.

I don't subscribe to the concept of you are either doing harm/good, what utter tosh.... you can just be in harmony bimbling along. And for the record the horses have to learn self reliance/confidence and how to just get on with it.... you can't ride every stride out hunting/eventing/hacking etc. you'd be exhausted after 100 yards (am too old for metric) horse has to look out for itself and think for itself otherwise rider would drive the poor horse mad pecking its head the whole time.

Maybe my senile old brain is just too old for all of this over analysis but hey ho me and my horses are more than happy and I'll now bog off chuck some tack on which ever neddy I happen to catch first, clamber aboard (joints and infirmity permitting) and go for a blast around the countryside not giving a flying fig what anyone else thinks about me.... and all of the above will be achieved accompanied with a big fat grin and manic giggling! So long as I keep the horse between me and the ground its officially been a good day
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^^^ fantastic post, and pretty much what has been swilling around in my head as I've been reading the thread.
I am my own biggest critic when it comes to riding - I know my faults, they magnify in my brain, I dwell on my mistakes, feel guilty if I miss-time an aid or correction.... BUT it doesn't stop me trying, it doesn't stop me learning and it doesn't stop me having a great time on my horses.

I also don't subscribe to the doing harm/doing good division. It's not black and white like that. I don't think my horse thinks I'm going her ANY good by teaching her how to do an excellent half pass or true lead change. I reckon she thinks the whole thing is dumb and would rather be chomping grass in the field without my backside plonked on top.

So the doing good aspect is only doing good from my personal viewpoint. I don't want to do harm by doing something that causes the horse mental or physical pain, but I think as soon as a rider is thinking and self aware, you won't be in too much danger of doing that. I think the horse would feel fairly neutral about the whole thing, given that it knows it has to be ridden at all, and it's we as riders that put so much pressure and criticism on ourselves and each other, & take the joy out of it.
 
Zipzop said:
I once heard a saying, 'you are either doing harm or doing good there is no neutral in riding.' This is so much responsibility and means there are no more relaxing hacks just slopping along on a loose rein, because this is then not beneficial to the horse.
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What pompous numpty said that... I have a disability and although ride to the best of my ability I'm never going to get a 10 at dressage for my position. Does that mean I should hang up my boots?
Anyway my ponios would say the most beneficial thing you can do for them is to let them spend all their time eating with their mates out in the field!!!

You should enjoy your riding however you do it. You only have one life and never know what is around the corner. Give yourself permission not to have to be perfect all the time :-)
 
Wow this post has shocked me! if your instructor is making you feel so inferior and uncompetant then stop letting them brain wash you and get a new instructor ASAP! its so very sad to hear so many of you are being made to feel this way :( riding is supposed to be fun!
 
This Quote "You should enjoy your riding however you do it. You only have one life and never know what is around the corner. Give yourself permission not to have to be perfect all the time"
Agree completely. As others say this is supposed to be FUN. I started riding over 50 years ago and although I have lessons I still class my self as novice. Technically I'm rubbish but since I got my first pony in the 60's I've always enjoyed riding. Yes, a few accidents and confidence issues along the way but, hey, as my instructor says ' providing it does you and your horse no harm, it's OK'
Relax. OP, try and find the fun again, it'll be worth it.
 
I understand how you feel. It is a big responsibility but there must be a middle ground. Might just take time to find. I cringe at the thought of my previous riding before I discovered classical and biomechanics.
 
Just to say go out for a blast. Find a nice big field forget about your position, that your horse is on the bit, or on the right leg and then let rip. You'll come back with a huge smile on your face and then realise why you ride, TOO ENJOY IT!! As said some times a certain amount of ignorance is bliss.
 
Hi all thanks for all the replies - lots of great stuff to take on board.

Those of you who disagree with the 'doing harm or doing good - no neutral ground' statement, do you then not agree that it is detrimental to the horse to let the horse go out hacking on a loose rein, carrying a rider without being asked to use themselves correctly as this will mean the horse is completely hollow? And a hollow horse with the weight of the rider on is ultimately going to have problems in the long run, (back, muscular etc)?
 
Zipzop I went to an inspiring as ever clinic with Gerd Heuschmann, Charles de Kunffy (my fave) and Andrew Murphy recently and the interesting point either Gerd or Charles made was that jumping is very therapeutic and beneficial to the horse and for all the inbalances etc caused by showjumpers through their riding the damage is undone through the horses jumping!
I believe the key is to strive for perfection whilst realising it is unobtainable.
 
Zipzop said:
Those of you who disagree with the 'doing harm or doing good - no neutral ground' statement, do you then not agree that it is detrimental to the horse to let the horse go out hacking on a loose rein, carrying a rider without being asked to use themselves correctly as this will mean the horse is completely hollow? And a hollow horse with the weight of the rider on is ultimately going to have problems in the long run, (back, muscular etc)?
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No. Not in the broader sense. My horses are trained in their school work to carry themselves, and me, in a way that is efficient (round 'outline', back up, core active, hind legs under. They build up muscles in the (determined by riders) correct places.
On a hack, it's their free time as much as mine. They are allowed to look around them, I like them to take an interest, they are allowed to investigate things that interest them provided they stay on my aids, and we have a bit of a jolly.
On the whole, they don't go hollow because their musculature is such that they are naturally a bit 'round'. You have to look at the whole set-up and management in order to make a judgement IMO :)

(I think it is to the horse's detriment that we sit on it in the first place, so the rest is all relative, but that's not going to stop me either :lol:)
 
Yes I agree with Yasa, I don't think it's as straightforward as you suggest. A range of activity is probably optimal. Dressage itself is very intensive. I don't think light hacking on a loose rein in conjunction with other activities would be detrimental. Otherwise you could really say all riding is detrimental to their backs...which it undoubtedly is...so don't ride at all. The way horses love has changed immeasurably since their evolutionary roots. That is just the way it is...This new environment will never be perfect but it can be managed carefully for them.
 
Zipzop said:
Hi all thanks for all the replies - lots of great stuff to take on board.

Those of you who disagree with the 'doing harm or doing good - no neutral ground' statement, do you then not agree that it is detrimental to the horse to let the horse go out hacking on a loose rein, carrying a rider without being asked to use themselves correctly as this will mean the horse is completely hollow? And a hollow horse with the weight of the rider on is ultimately going to have problems in the long run, (back, muscular etc)?
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Does not doing eventing or any high level sport put unnecessary strain on a horse and lead to avoidable injuries and strains. No doubt more then your average pleasure horse that is hacked a few times a week?
 
Zipzop said:
Those of you who disagree with the 'doing harm or doing good - no neutral ground' statement, do you then not agree that it is detrimental to the horse to let the horse go out hacking on a loose rein, carrying a rider without being asked to use themselves correctly as this will mean the horse is completely hollow? And a hollow horse with the weight of the rider on is ultimately going to have problems in the long run, (back, muscular etc)?
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Loose rein does not mean hollow. When ever I ride the horse is either on the buckle or in an outline but when on the buckle he/she will still be working forward from behind.
I do subscribe to the harm or good theory but people forget that it is all about degrees. Very few things will cause noticeable harm in short doses. Lets face it, it takes years of constant repetition to train something so is 10 minutes of anything going to really cause a problem?
If I had to pick one thing to focus on with riding it would be consistency and by that I mean I will be consistent in my expectations of the horse response to an aid. So if I ask horse to go forward off my leg I expect it to regardless of being in a school or out hacking. Big difference is I may not ask out hacking. Same with my statement about contact above, no grey area but options are either end of the spectrum.
In essence, if what you doesn't confuse the horse as to the expected response then it probably isn't going to cause a huge problem. Therefor chill.
 
not sure why you think a horse is hollow on a lose rein? I do lots of free walk on a long rein as a reward when in a schooling session and neither of my horses go hollow. They can stretch down and round.
Also you surely don't mean to suggest that western horses don't carry themselves?

Susiestokes2 I completely agree, many more competition horses break down than hacking horses. In fact a lot of those that are broken via jumping are sold on just as hacks, ergo hacking is more therapeutic than jumping for them....
 
bluedanube said:
Also you surely don't mean to suggest that western horses don't carry themselves?
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Peanut rolling came into my head too when reading this thread. My chestnut mare sometimes like to do a bit of a western pleasure horse impression when out hacking and when she does, her back definitely rises.
 
I must say, this thread really has been so enlightening!
It's wonderful to have so many opinions and I can already feel my thinking starting to change! :)
You have all helped my see that just because I can't be PERFECT I can still enjoy myself.
Many thanks to all who have contributed so far.......
 
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