Weird napping problems

[[59668]]

I'm never sure why people think beating their horse with a rope is weirdly kinder than learning how to use a schooling whip properly (buy one with the big leather flappy end). (I am sure I saw a video advising slapping the 'giddy up rope' against waterproofs to make a noise to spook your horse forward - bad, bad idea! )

The advantage of a whip being that it doesn't affect the contact you have with the horse's mouth, and you are reinforcing and refining the leg aid. And from what you say, your issue is that he ducks behind the leg in the arena too, as an evasion. Try to sharpen him to the leg aids with lots of acute transitions (halt to trot, walk to canter), maybe lateral work.

Incidentally for rearing as an evasion, turn him in small circles bending his neck to one way (they can't go up with a bent neck).
But everything should be built on him going 'forwards' from the leg.

Who says I'm beating him with a rope?!
I'm literally flicking it up and across my shoulders to make a sound!
I won't carry a whip. End of. If a dog or a child wouldn't walk into a room or something would you really think that hitting them with a whip to reinforce your aid is kinder than making some kind of sound or something to push them on?! Smacking him escalates it. Using a sound doesn't
And aren't you saying to buy a whip with a flappy end so it makes a noise rather than stinging? So what's the difference?!

 

[Shilasdair]

Who says I'm beating him with a rope?!
I'm literally flicking it up and across my shoulders to make a sound!
I won't carry a whip. End of. If a dog or a child wouldn't walk into a room or something would you really think that hitting them with a whip to reinforce your aid is kinder than making some kind of sound or something to push them on?! Smacking him escalates it. Using a sound doesn't
And aren't you saying to buy a whip with a flappy end so it makes a noise rather than stinging? So what's the difference?!

So when he naps at the yard gate, you are going to beat yourself with a giddy up rope in order to make a noise that startles him, so that he runs forward away from it?
And yes, totally if my child wouldn't walk into the dining room, I think it would be absolutely appropriate to set off a firecracker behind her to scare her in. Or possibly cymbals?
I am saying to buy a whip with a leather flap so you can use it more precisely - as you would with a leg aid.
How I wish people learned the theory of equitation...

 

[[59668]]

Patience worked with mine. I wouldn't rule out carrying a whip for steering, that helps with sideways napping and spinning. I would take him a little further each day I brought him out to hack. I built up his confidence that way. Also, walking out in hand and long reining helps. Pairing something enjoyable like grazing with hacking helps too.

When mine used to get stuck I would find it helpful to relax for a couple of minutes and then he would go forward again.

Mine was very herd bound, which caused the nappiness. If it's a fear reaction on the part of the horse or if it rears when pushed, I would go with steady, patient work rather than pushing them through it with increasing pressure.

Interesting you mention letting him graze as that's something I have been doing in strategic places

 

[[59668]]

What's he like with long reining. Going forward going backwards. Doing ground work.

Doesn't do it long reining!

 

[[59668]]

So when he naps at the yard gate, you are going to beat yourself with a giddy up rope in order to make a noise that startles him, so that he runs forward away from it?
And yes, totally if my child wouldn't walk into the dining room, I think it would be absolutely appropriate to set off a firecracker behind her to scare her in. Or possibly cymbals?
I am saying to buy a whip with a leather flap so you can use it more precisely - as you would with a leg aid.
How I wish people learned the theory of equitation...

Oh how I wish I were as perfect as you and knew the theory of equitation
(Insert rolling eye emoji)

 

[Shilasdair]

Oh how I wish I were as perfect as you and knew the theory of equitation
(Insert rolling eye emoji)

I may not be perfect - but I try to be civil.
And there is a rolling eye emoji second from the right if you want to be rude again - > (but maybe you are on a device that doesn't show them).

The trouble with spooking your horse forward using a 'giddy up' rope to hit your waterproofs/boots or other noisy object, is that your horse will actually become habituated to it. So what then? When he ceases to react to the giddy up rope - new noises?

Mule has some good ideas though - traditionally horses used to be long reined out and about, first following another horse and then in the lead. And that got them used to being in front - but with a person behind to drive them forward through any napping. Depends on your yard setting though- some hack routes/roads would be unsafe.

And for a horse that plants, you can always fight them in the battle of patience. Sit there. Don't let them go back/turn. Just make them stand. They do get bored eventually - and want to go forward - but you stop them when they do, for a couple of mins (they have to go forward when you tell them, not when they fancy it). I know of someone who used to take a book with her!

 

[[59668]]

I may not be perfect - but I try to be civil.
And there is a rolling eye emoji second from the right if you want to be rude again - > (but maybe you are on a device that doesn't show them).

The trouble with spooking your horse forward using a 'giddy up' rope to hit your waterproofs/boots or other noisy object, is that your horse will actually become habituated to it. So what then? When he ceases to react to the giddy up rope - new noises?

Mule has some good ideas though - traditionally horses used to be long reined out and about, first following another horse and then in the lead. And that got them used to being in front - but with a person behind to drive them forward through any napping. Depends on your yard setting though- some hack routes/roads would be unsafe.

And for a horse that plants, you can always fight them in the battle of patience. Sit there. Don't let them go back/turn. Just make them stand. They do get bored eventually - and want to go forward - but you stop them when they do, for a couple of mins (they have to go forward when you tell them, not when they fancy it). I know of someone who used to take a book with her!

The idea of a rope isn't to spook then forwards. The noise is helpful yes but it creates an energy.
You will only habituate them to it if you do it all the time. It needs to be timed well and with purpose and immediately stopped when you get the response you want. Its the same as using a whip....otherwise how come they don't get habituated to that?! It IS backing up my leg... only without using a whip...it gets the exact same response. I don't see why you have such an issue with it?!
He doesn't do it long lining.. see previous post. He also doesn't do it with me leading him.

 

[Shilasdair]

The idea of a rope isn't to spook then forwards. The noise is helpful yes but it creates an energy.
You will only habituate them to it if you do it all the time. It needs to be timed well and with purpose and immediately stopped when you get the response you want. Its the same as using a whip....otherwise how come they don't get habituated to that?! It IS backing up my leg... only without using a whip...it gets the exact same response. I don't see why you have such an issue with it?!
He doesn't do it long lining.. see previous post. He also doesn't do it with me leading him.

I have an issue with 'Natural Horsemanship' because I've had the misfortune to see the 'behind the scenes' things at demos. I wouldn't give any of those cruel people my time, or my money.

Anyway, good luck with fixing the napping - it's such a pain when they nap.

 

[[59668]]

I have an issue with 'Natural Horsemanship' because I've had the misfortune to see the 'behind the scenes' things at demos. I wouldn't give any of those cruel people my time, or my money.

Anyway, good luck with fixing the napping - it's such a pain when they nap.

I'm not into Natural Horsemanship and I don't follow one school. I like having an array of tools and ideas in the toolbox so I can pick and choose. But I do not want to smack this horse, to back up my leg, or to make him do something, when I can do something else that essentially backs up my leg that I feel more comfortable with.

 

[Shilasdair]

Another thought - do you have a tame human that can walk with you?
Especially out on hacks.
Human can start off leading (not literally) and gradually fall back so s/he is walking behind - or can strategically disappear when appropriate? And/or wait for you/your horse halfway out with a treat as a reward? Human shouldn't chase though.

 

[[59668]]

Another thought - do you have a tame human that can walk with you?
Especially out on hacks.
Human can start off leading (not literally) and gradually fall back so s/he is walking behind - or can strategically disappear when appropriate? And/or wait for you/your horse halfway out with a treat as a reward? Human shouldn't chase though.

A tame human love it!
Horse doesnt solely do this alone though... also has napped with 1, 2 or 3 other horses.

 

[Shilasdair]

A tame human love it!
Horse doesnt solely do this alone though... also has napped with 1, 2 or 3 other horses.

You mustn't use a feral human!
Sometimes horses behave better with a human, than with other horses, particularly if they don't know the other horses as herd-mates....worth a try maybe.

ETA Young horses often don't like to get too close to other horses whilst ridden - because that's considered 'rude' equine behaviour until they have built up a relationship. So he may be napping away from them, rather than following the herd? Just a thought.

 

[[59668]]

You mustn't use a feral human!
Sometimes horses behave better with a human, than with other horses, particularly if they don't know the other horses as herd-mates....worth a try maybe.

For sure worth a try