Welcome, Hermosa

[Caol Ila]

Between myself and the filly, the filly is coping better. She is proving to be a tough, adaptable little horse. I have a few options so far. One is going back to her breeder's yard; two is going to a field somewhere in Milngavie where there would be no facilities; three is a yard about 18 miles away where my friend has her horse, and the YO said she's happy to take a youngster.

 

[laura_nash]

It's not just mares that can be nasty? Everyone at the yard is saying, "Well, that's just mares, isn't it?"

I have a sweet natured old cob gelding. Over the years he's been in with different horses and as long as there is enough to eat he's lovely with them. I used to offer him as company for visiting summer liveries at a previous yard. When our new mare arrived she was in next to him and jumped the fence over night, next morning they were happily grooming.

A couple of years ago a shetland colt escaped from a neighbour and got in with him and his pony companion. My cob totally went for him! Beat him up and thrashed him around the field. It totally took me by surprise. Very lucky he escaped uninjured, probably helped that my cob is barefoot.

 

[Caol Ila]

Just feel so bummed. I had been so looking forward to having the mare at this yard, because the liveries and facilities are really good, and my yard friends are so supportive. But even with an older horse, I don't know how to safely introduce it to their herds now, given that neither management nor staff have at any point enabled a systematic, safe (or as safe as possible) protocol for doing so, or suggested that there even is one.

 

[Flame_]

Safe, well managed, regular turnout has to be the top priority of most horse owners and where most yards fall short.

"Yes, lovely that you have 3 arenas, a washbox, a solarium, a walker, a cross country course, etc. Can my horse go in a field every day and stay in one piece?"

Get looking. This is why I'm on a little yard with no school virtually on my own! Your filly is lovely and all will be OK when you find the right place.

 

[Berpisc]

I think the yard owners have let you down. Regardless of age/sex herd dynamics are very important for horse welfare and even if you were not as aware of this as ideal they should have been froma good practice point of view and been more helpful.
She looks lovely, don't regret buying her, it does sound as if you have some solutions for now and things will work out.

 

[Reacher]

The YO sounds very unhelpful. Sorry you are having this headache and are again on the looking for a new yard treadmill. Hope that by word of mouth you find something suitable - maybe somewhere that would take both filly and Gypsum

 

[PurBee]

Following up on that. One of my yard friends is still pals with her, so I've reached out to him.

Why do I wish I'd bought the colt? He was nice too, but had sweet itch. Maybe that was a stupid reason to not look closely at a horse.

My young colt was with a mixed small herd for a while, being bullied to the lowest herd position, which actually made him aggressive to handle when he returned to me. ...so gender isnt a guarantee of not being bullied by the elders.

IF the herd are used to having bolshy youngsters around they are mature enough not to chase them on intro’s, it seems like your yard herds arent this type of herd.

i cant believe how unhelpful theyre being. As stated already, what if suddenly a horse needs quarantining for whatever reason? A yard usually is aware of this and makes allowances.
But if the owners arent horsey, theyll have no idea or relate to these situations at all...i really feel for you.

”dont have time” to deal with your horse? Youre friggin paying them, so some of their time should absolutely be dedicated to aiding your horses needs.
To ask you to ensure unknown horse would be ok with the mare herd just goes to show their ignorance of horses. Any horse might be, or might not be, regardless of age.

Put another thread on here of specific area youre looking, for anyone for space for one horse with need initially for small paddock.
If i had home horses near you with small spare paddock space, i’d be willing, even if not my normal set-up to offer livery. worth a shot.
Fingers firmly crossed a small paddock and stable near you becomes available very very soon!

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Caol ila..really sorry to read this your stress drips from each post. Try an ad on the central Scotland livery yard Facebook page to see if it turns up anything.

 

[Caol Ila]

Turned her loose in the indoor tonight, but all she wanted to do was follow me. She's fed up with being in her stable, though. I need to fix this, like yesterday.

The more I think about it, the more upset I get that *no one* who works at the yard made the slightest effort to help me or show much empathy after she jumped the fence. OH and I caught her ourselves -- didn't need help with that -- but I asked a few staff, what should I do now? How do we fix this? And I got nothing. Basically, I agreed to put the horse into the mare's field, and that's the end of it. The risk is all mine.

Caol ila..really sorry to read this your stress drips from each post. Try an ad on the central Scotland livery yard Facebook page to see if it turns up anything.

OH already has. I didn't want to do it myself because I didn't want aggravation from people who I know are on that page.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

Ah..ok. I ll have a really good think about somewhere...I think Blair’s Farm near Larbert offers a young stock herd/grass type livery but of course it’s not on your doorstep.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Any yard I've been on with a "just chuck them out" policy of introducing new horses to each other, especially in established herd groups, it has ended badly for someone regardless of the sexes or ages of the horses. It's just not a safe way to do things.

I'm sorry you're having this stress when you should be concentrating on enjoying your lovely new girl. I hope you can get something sorted for her.

 

[the_sophies]

http://www.milndaviefarm.co.uk/

Don't know what its like now, I was here as a kid when Marjorie Mcnicol had it, there was always plenty of turnout. Just outside Strathblane

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Well, that went badly. I went to the yard early so I could turn out when there were only a few mares in the field and she could meet the herd in drips and drabs. She walked to the field pleasantly enough, but once I let her go, one of the four mares already in there aggressively chased her. Relentless, head snaking nastiness. Wouldn't let up. She pinned Hermosa against a fence, and Hermosa jumped the damned fence. I shat myself. She cleared it and jumped into an empty field that's currently being rested. It was clear that trying to catch her would scare her even more, and she was kind of fine in that field. Grazing a bit, not panicked. I left her for a few hours, and then returned. Half an hour and a little bit of vague join-up technique later, I caught her. Thank God. She had a few testing baby moments but got into her stable fine and seemed more settled there than she had been yesterday.

So, now what's the way forward? I honestly don't know. I'm terrified of putting her back into that field. That could have gone so much worse than it did. I mean, I know what I would like to do, but it's not totally up to me. In addition to the herd fields, they have lots of smaller paddocks, but they only like to have a tiny number of those in use at any one time. Before I bought Hermosa, YM told me they had no free spaces in those paddocks, and I thought the filly would be fine in the herd because she'd always been in a herd. I have never been so wrong. About anything. In a perfect world, I would turn her out in one of those paddocks with one or two quiet horses. For a while. But the yard doesn't seem keen on being that helpful. Unless they change their tune, I don't know what to do.

Anyone know of any good youngstock livery north of Glasgow? *siiiigh*

But she can sure trot. She jumped the fence about a minute after I took this picture. The horse in the red rug is a nasty piece of work.

View attachment 67236

Kia chased Faran for the first two days that they were in together then He grudgingly accepted him as long as he didn’t go near his mare fence line. He chased him and he jumped the fence. I had to put Faran in quarantine for three weeks so it was Kia for company or nothing.

Putting youngsters in with an established herd is worrying, you would be better introducing to one then another then another. I’ve had to do it this winter again so Faran can go in with the big boys when his buddy is away, it was worrying as he’s prone to jumping fences when scared. He hasn’t and has even established that he’s not bottom of the herd.

Here is a video of one of the chasing episodes. Thank god Kia wasn’t as fast as he used to be nor as agile

 

[Caol Ila]

Unless some amazing private stable pops up locally, she might be going to a place 20 miles away. Ugh. I am telling myself that it is very temporary -- once she has the skills to function at current yard, she will come back. I know the yard has some issues, but I've done the rounds locally and everything else is worse.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Unless some amazing private stable pops up locally, she might be going to a place 20 miles away. Ugh. I am telling myself that it is very temporary -- once she has the skills to function at current yard, she will come back. I know the yard has some issues, but I've done the rounds locally and everything else is worse.

Speak to the mare owners and ask if you can put them in the school together one at a time for some supervised meetings. Let them talk over doors and spend time in the school then add another and another then before you know it they won’t bother with her. Flinging a horse into an established herd is just not the way to do it and usually results in what happened to yours.

Taking her away then putting her back won’t make the issues any different. Still going into the same herd.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Taking her away then putting her back won’t make the issues any different. Still going into the same herd.

I agree with this. It’s just delaying a re run of what happened the first time, unless the introductions can be managed better.

The yard is failing in its duty of care by throwing newbies out into an established herd and letting them get on with it.

 

[abb123]

I agree, taking her away and then bringing her back is not going to resolve anything. I don't think these issues are because she is a baby at all, adding any horse into a herd would be the same.

Agree with the other suggestions of meeting in the school and over doorways, hand graze along the fence line etc. Can you also make your own little electric fence area and put it up just inside the gate for an hour with you supervising? You could do it at a quiet time when no horses going in or out and it doesn't have to be big just big enough that the other horses can't reach her.

I'd also reach out to the other mare owners and ask for their help. Would they let you bring the main instigators in for an hour so you can turn yours out with the friendly ones?

It doesn't sound like the YO/staff care so you might as well just take matters into your own hands and crack on. This phase doesn't normally last long, you just have to get over it and then it will be fine!!

 

[Xtra]

Are the other mares out 24/7?

 

[bouncing_ball]

Speak to the mare owners and ask if you can put them in the school together one at a time for some supervised meetings. Let them talk over doors and spend time in the school then add another and another then before you know it they won’t bother with her. Flinging a horse into an established herd is just not the way to do it and usually results in what happened to yours.

Taking her away then putting her back won’t make the issues any different. Still going into the same herd.

It might help, if she learns to meet new horses in herd of youngsters for a few months. Then you carefully added her back in this mare herd, in summer, when it is warmer, and maybe the are all a bit more relaxed? I did wonder if the mare herd are only out daytime at the moment, whether you could use the time early morning and late afternoon to get your filly used to the field with just one mare?

e.g. If mare herd is currently out 8-4pm at the moment, you turn her out with one mare 6.30-8am. You come back and turn her out with a different mare 4pm until darkness. Repeat until she has met all the mares. The start with two mares and her. And build to whole herd. You do all the leg work, but you hopefully get a good outcome.

 

[Caol Ila]

To be honest, I think she needs both. Learning social skills in a friendlier group and then a gradual introduction, like you guys are describing. Yard has expressed willingness to make paddocks or use the existing paddocks in the summer, once the grass is established. But I can't keep her in the box for the next two or three months.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

You can only ever do your best with the options and facilities that are available to you at the time.

If the place a few miles away is the best option, then that is what you should do.

Whatever you choose I hope that it all works out and you can stop worrying about her safety. That is just the worst.

 

[Dexter]

To be honest, I think she needs both. Learning social skills in a friendlier group and then a gradual introduction, like you guys are describing. Yard has expressed willingness to make paddocks or use the existing paddocks in the summer, once the grass is established. But I can't keep her in the box for the next two or three months.

That sounds like a good plan to me in the circumstances

 

[Caol Ila]

Hermosa is moving to the yard 30 miles south of where I live. I turned over every closer rock I could. One kind of came through at the 11th hour, but it wasn't a lot closer and I had already arranged transport and told the YO 30m away that I was coming, and I didn't want to be a dick. The 11th hour place wasn't close enough to justify that.

I fear my boarding stable in CO where I spent my formative years as a horse person has set me up for a lifetime of disappointment. I cried a lot when I went to uni; not because I left my friends and parents, but I left the barn. I was a mess when Gypsum boarded a lorry that would take her to Massachusetts. It was a special barn, with an incredible community, a wonderful horsey support network, and I understood that, even at 18. It was magical, really. When we came back after graduated, that barn built a pen for Gypsum, a whole damn pen! Just for her. And it wasn't like it was a small barn. Or that it didn't have a lot going on. When my current yard told me they had 88 horses and could not possibly do anything special for just one, I almost laughed. Or cried. Mostly cried. My old barn had about 90. It ran a riding school. It ran an equine assisted therapy program. It ran horsey camps for kids in social care and for kids who'd been entangled in the criminal justice system. But if a boarder horse wasn't getting on with existing arrangements, whatever they were, they figured it out, or tried their motherfkucing best to. People left for lots of reasons, like at any barn, but no one ever left because their horse needed some tweak to turn-out arrangements or whatever and they couldn't work it out. People bought two year olds, weanlings. They had foals. They had everything. God, I miss that place. Doesn't exist anymore. The old owners died -- Ellie while I was at uni for degree #1 (and I was devastated; she was like a second mother), and her husband, Bob, around the time I finished my PhD -- and their sons ran it for a number of years, but while their parents had been horsemen/women through and through, the sons weren't that into it. And as you can imagine, the ranch made no money. Probably broke even. So there was that. The sons sold it to the city as open space in 2015 or thereabouts, and now all the buildings are gone and it's just trails for the public.

RIP, Joder Arabian Ranch. Gypsum knew it, and she's a lucky girl. Even if I moved back, Hermosa never will and that is sad for her.

And before anyone says anything about grass, this is Colorado. There is no fkucking grass.

Gotta start buying those lottery tickets.

 

[spookypony]

@Caol Ila, a really heart-felt post from you! Sounds like your early livery experiences were wonderful. I do hope you manage to sort out your livery arrangements in the future to suit all three of you, Gypsum, and Hermosa! I tried keeping mine at my cottage (for nearly 5 years), but found I got too stressed with my job, and not being able to compartmentalise when I got away from the uni. For me, the solution has been a small private yard, where I get 4.5 acres, 2 stables, and a school (albeit weirdly shaped) for less than I would pay for grass livery for 3 (or DIY for 2). With 2 horses, it might be worth looking around for something similar, although I appreciate the issue of Gypsum being really settled where she is and hard to move. 88 horses is a pretty big yard, and if the horsey manager has moved on, I'm not surprised that the non-horsey owners are struggling a bit! I hope Gypsum and Hermosa eventually have the opportunity to become friends: if they managed that, it would help you no ends, I think.

 

[Caol Ila]

How do you even find that? I desperately tried to find a private set-up nearby, and the only one I found would have required Hermosa to be all on her own, until the owners of the stable block and paddocks eventually got around to buying a horse for themselves. Screw that.

I also think Gypsum is the worst horse in the world to be teaching Hermosa equine social skills. The filly really needs to be around a horse who actually has some. Ever since we moved to the UK, Gypsum has been getting us chucked out of yards.

 

[spotty_pony]

How do you even find that? I desperately tried to find a private set-up nearby, and the only one I found would have required Hermosa to be all on her own, until the owners of the stable block and paddocks eventually got around to buying a horse for themselves. Screw that.

I also think Gypsum is the worst horse in the world to be teaching Hermosa equine social skills. The filly really needs to be around a horse who actually has some. Ever since we moved to the UK, Gypsum has been getting us chucked out of yards.

Could you not move both to the private set up you found and just put them in fields next to each other?

 

[Jeni the dragon]

How do you even find that?

I think sometimes they find us. Mine certainly did. Which doesn't help alot unfortunately. But making sure people know you are looking will make a difference.

 

[atropa]

When my current yard told me they had 88 horses and could not possibly do anything special for just one, I almost laughed. Or cried. Mostly cried.

So I think from this I've just realised where you are (I may have mentioned it previously in the thread). I'm sad and surprised that you're having that experience there, I thought since the owners took it back from the previous long term tenant it had vastly improved but maybe not. I've only ever been there for a couple of lessons in the distant past.

In my experience there are really not a lot of private yards coming up for rent along the central belt, I'm always jealous of people who manage to find them.

 

[Dexter]

I think sometimes they find us. Mine certainly did. Which doesn't help alot unfortunately. But making sure people know you are looking will make a difference.

Thats how I found mine. It found me. I couldnt cope at livery yards anymore. I want my horses to have turnout and in order for them to have that I do without a school, and just make do. It works just fine with a bit of compromise from me.

 

[Caol Ila]

Could you not move both to the private set up you found and just put them in fields next to each other?

She only had two fields that she wanted to rotate between, and she also wanted to leave the space free for her future pony.

So I think from this I've just realised where you are (I may have mentioned it previously in the thread). I'm sad and surprised that you're having that experience there, I thought since the owners took it back from the previous long term tenant it had vastly improved but maybe not. I've only ever been there for a couple of lessons in the distant past.

In my experience there are really not a lot of private yards coming up for rent along the central belt, I'm always jealous of people who manage to find them.

It had improved and become a lovely yard. When I moved Gypsum there, I gave them fair warning of all her weird sh1t, and they assured me they would figure her out and make it work. They were one of the only yards to do that. The others I approached didn't want to touch her with a bargepole. They saved her life. If I failed to find somewhere willing to work with her, I don't know what I would have done. I'm sad and surprised too. Or maybe I should not be surprised since the horsey director stepped down from her role, and the buck now stops with the one who does not have a background in horses, but rather farming and hospitality. I assumed it was still the same. I'd assured them that the filly could run with the mares and did not need a paddock, but I suppose I had also wrongly assumed that if everything went pear shaped -- and as we know, things do, even with older horses -- they would work out a plan. They'd said they would in the fall of 2018 with a much more difficult horse, and to be honest, incessant fencewalking can break the will of most YOs (and horse owners), but the filly's issues are straightforward, normal horse stuff.