Welfare issues with polo?

[cptrayes]

Again, draw reins (Doormouse we've always used draw/running reins interchangeably! ) from saddle to bit to hand......

That was not the picture, the horse was stood still. In any case, how many times?, I do not see draw reins as any better. WHY CANY YOU PLAY WITHOUT THE BONDAGE?

 

[Doormouse]

The polo supporters on this thread have found some lovely pictures of happy horses. Can we please have a comment on the myriad pictures that are available showing polo ponies being hauled around by their mouths, made possible by so many straps they look like they are in a bondage movie?

Have you ever played polo? Have you ever ridden a polo pony that is currently playing polo? Have you ever spoken to a polo player or trainer about how they train and ride the ponies?

If not and you are making all these judgements on photos alone perhaps you would like to search the myriad of photos online of event ers back teeth being hauled out when someone has missed a stride, show jumpers on the floor mixed up in poles, dressage horses rearing ....... Shall I go on?

 

[miss_c]

That was not the picture, the horse was stood still.

No but it is the only grey he played at the Rundle Cup so would be the same pony and I doubt he would have changed tack mid-match.

 

[Moomin1]

Have you ever played polo? Have you ever ridden a polo pony that is currently playing polo? Have you ever spoken to a polo player or trainer about how they train and ride the ponies?

If not and you are making all these judgements on photos alone perhaps you would like to search the myriad of photos online of event ers back teeth being hauled out when someone has missed a stride, show jumpers on the floor mixed up in poles, dressage horses rearing ....... Shall I go on?

Very true - there are instances of all of the above. However, generally, the overall picture of a polo match is a lot more unpleasant than any of the above sports. It is far more common to see an uncomfortable looking polo pony during a match than it is to see an uncomfortable looking horse during SJ, eventing etc etc. Though that is not to say for one minute you don't get examples within those sports.

 

[cptrayes]

two wrongs don't make a right. I do not see why I cannot make a judgement from photos, when the photos are so very, very prevalent.

Please answer the question. Why can you not play the game without the bondage?

 

[miss_c]

Have you ever played polo? Have you ever ridden a polo pony that is currently playing polo? Have you ever spoken to a polo player or trainer about how they train and ride the ponies?

If not and you are making all these judgements on photos alone perhaps you would like to search the myriad of photos online of event ers back teeth being hauled out when someone has missed a stride, show jumpers on the floor mixed up in poles, dressage horses rearing ....... Shall I go on?

Well said.

 

[Doormouse]

two wrongs don't make a right. I do not see why I cannot make a judgement from photos, when the photos are so very, very prevalent.

Please answer the question. Why can you not pay the game without the bondage?

What makes you assume the bondage is cruel?

How many horses eventing, hunting, showjumping, showing and hacking wear gags or Pelhams? Is this bondage?

How many horses as above wear a flash or grackle noseband? Is this bondage?

How many horses are schooled in draw / running reins? Approve or not is this a welfare issue?

A horse can be pulled about appallingly in a snaffle by a rider with bad hands.

 

[cptrayes]

No but it is the only grey he played at the Rundle Cup so would be the same pony and I doubt he would have changed tack mid-match.

OK they were draw reins, how many more times do I have to say that it does not change my point of view that these horses are strapped down so that their riders can haul them around the pitch ? And that I cannot see the point as long as both sides are banned from all that extraneous tack.

 

[Billabongchick]

Good post by Doormouse. Those are definitely running reins in all the photos and I've never seen a polo pony in side reins; they just wouldn't allow the flexibility of movement required for the game. I've worked as a polo groom and professional polo photographer at the big matches in both in the UK and in New Zealand and the ponies were treated well. As with any equestrian sport if the horse doesn't enjoy that particular discipline then you won't get very far with it! Most of mine loved the game and if they didn't they were rehomed as kids hacks etc. Also as with any equestrian sport you get good riders/bad riders with good or bad hands.

As someone also said above you only use direct contact with the bit to stop and a good pony will do a sliding stop like a western horse which is directed more by the rider sitting back than by hauling on the mouth. My ponies were all very happy and well cared for and their fitness was taken very seriously with long programmes of hill work etc to get them in the best shape to play the season with minimal injuries. Out of 14 I looked after in NZ one did a tendon towards the end and one 4yo had splints; I maybe had one cut corner of a mouth all season - I don't think that represents bad welfare issues...

 

[Moomin1]

What makes you assume the bondage is cruel?

Probably the same thing that makes any reasonable horse person to assume it would be cruel to haul your horse around in similar ways whilst just out on a hack, or schooling at home.

Seriously, if someone did post a thread up on hho showing them schooling their horse at home in all that tack, with the horse's mouth being hauled out, then they would be blasted.

 

[cptrayes]

What makes you assume the bondage is cruel?

The photos of horses clearly being hauled about by their mouths, which if you insist I can rapidly find a hundred or more of on Google.

Can't you SEE it when you see photos of polo games, or have you just became blind to it?

 

[cptrayes]

Can someone please answer the question. Why can you not play without all those straps?

 

[Doormouse]

The photos of horses clearly being hauled about by their mouths, which if you insist I can rapidly find a hundred or more of on Google.

Can't you SEE it when you see photos of polo games, or have you just became blind to it?

Why do they enjoy the game so much then if they are really being abused for 7 minutes as you are saying. And you cannot possibly make a judgement on their enjoyment of it until you have spent some time with playing ponies. No photo will tell you that.

 

[Moomin1]

Why do they enjoy the game so much then if they are really being abused for 7 minutes as you are saying. And you cannot possibly make a judgement on their enjoyment of it until you have spent some time with playing ponies. No photo will tell you that.

Oh the good old 'they enjoy it' argument. Now that really is a load of tosh. Out of interest, have any of these ponies told you they enjoy it? Or is it something to do with the fact they 'get excitable and charge about' during matches (just like the good old argument about why race horses continue to run riderless..of course it MUST be the fact that they are enjoying it...).

 

[cptrayes]

Why do they enjoy the game so much then if they are really being abused for 7 minutes as you are saying. And you cannot possibly make a judgement on their enjoyment of it until you have spent some time with playing ponies. No photo will tell you that.

No answer to the question then, why you have to play with all those straps?

 

[Doormouse]

Can someone please answer the question. Why can you not play without all those straps?

Probably could, don't supposed anyone has tried as have never seen it as a welfare issue anymore than the eventers would be unlikely to go cross country in a bitless bridle or showjumping at high level or high level dressage in a snaffle. Probably the most natural horse from a tack point of view are the endurance horses.

I think that much of the tack situation in many areas is tradition, the bitless bridle and barefoot thing is relatively new to the market.

If you really believe it is a welfare case why don't you take up polo in a snaffle or bitless bridle or micklem and prove your point.

 

[Mariposa]

I've been involved with polo - be it grooming or playing - for 20 odd years and I've never seen a pony play in side reins, those are running reins. I play all my ponies in gags and running reins, it keeps me and them safe to be able to stop and check quickly, but the rest of the time there is no contact on their mouths. I don't consider this bondage any more than I would consider an eventer in a Dutch gag or grakle in 'bondage'. In any discipline there are people who do not treat horses to the standards we would hope for, but the majority of polo ponies I know are loved, cared for beautifully, and have a good life. We certainly spoil our lot, probably far too much, because at the end of the day without them we are nothing.

 

[miss_c]

Oh the good old 'they enjoy it' argument. Now that really is a load of tosh. Out of interest, have any of these ponies told you they enjoy it? Or is it something to do with the fact they 'get excitable and charge about' during matches (just like the good old argument about why race horses continue to run riderless..of course it MUST be the fact that they are enjoying it...).

My mare would bounce on the spot and squeak before a chukka started...

 

[Moomin1]

Probably could, don't supposed anyone has tried as have never seen it as a welfare issue anymore than the eventers would be unlikely to go cross country in a bitless bridle or showjumping at high level or high level dressage in a snaffle. Probably the most natural horse from a tack point of view are the endurance horses.

I think that much of the tack situation in many areas is tradition, the bitless bridle and barefoot thing is relatively new to the market.

If you really believe it is a welfare case why don't you take up polo in a snaffle or bitless bridle or micklem and prove your point.

I'm sorry, am I misunderstanding your point? Are you actually suggesting that if someone finds it difficult to ride a polo pony in a snaffle, then it must mean that it is not a welfare concern to ride it in stronger tack?!

 

[Doormouse]

Oh the good old 'they enjoy it' argument. Now that really is a load of tosh. Out of interest, have any of these ponies told you they enjoy it? Or is it something to do with the fact they 'get excitable and charge about' during matches (just like the good old argument about why race horses continue to run riderless..of course it MUST be the fact that they are enjoying it...).

Have you ever spent anytime with polo ponies? It is very easy to judge from your armchair but also very wrong and you are doing the horse world a great disservice by judging without proper knowledge and experience.

I know nothing about dressage horses, they seem to me to look very wound up all the time and under a lot of pressure. However, I would never judge because I simple don't know enough about them to do so.

 

[Moomin1]

My mare would bounce on the spot and squeak before a chukka started...

And this automatically means she must love playing polo of course.....

 

[Doormouse]

I'm sorry, am I misunderstanding your point? Are you actually suggesting that if someone finds it difficult to ride a polo pony in a snaffle, then it must mean that it is not a welfare concern to ride it in stronger tack?!

Is it then a welfare issue to ride an eventer in a stronger bit cross country?

 

[Moomin1]

Have you ever spent anytime with polo ponies? It is very easy to judge from your armchair but also very wrong and you are doing the horse world a great disservice by judging without proper knowledge and experience.

I know nothing about dressage horses, they seem to me to look very wound up all the time and under a lot of pressure. However, I would never judge because I simple don't know enough about them to do so.

I take it you wouldn't judge about rollkur then either?

And I have to say, the majority of polo ponies I have come across are well looked after, however they are physically knackered, battered and pretty shot by the end of their career.

 

[Moomin1]

Is it then a welfare issue to ride an eventer in a stronger bit cross country?

Yes - if it spends most of it's time looking like it's having it's gob hauled from here to next year...like most polo ponies do in every single match viewed.

 

[Brownmare]

I have worked with polo ponies - and I will never do so again. In the one season I was there 4 ponies were killed from a single yard: 2 fell during play and broke shoulders (one of which when the rider specifically told the groom to take the studs out as he didn't need them), 1 died of ruptured kidneys when a player from the opposing team brought his stick down on the ponies back deliberately and the last did a tendon catastrophically.

Not only that but when there was a tournament at the local club we had visiting horses stabled with us. One had a tongue semi-severed from a bit injury and another had a 4" split up its cheek from the corner of its mouth, again from a bit injury.

At the end of the season, grazing was found for the ponies and they were to be left there for the winter. At the start of the season, a couple of the ponies were so thin it was 3 months begore they could go out in public.

No opinions there, only facts, but fairly damning don't you think?

 

[Suelin]

Let's tie them all up on the side of the motorway then. Just what do some of you think horses should do ?, judging by some threads and comments it seems a horse should be covered in bling, pampered like lap dogs and never do a honest days work in it's life.

Ban racing, ban polo, ban hunting etc. There goes the equine industry and the country will have an excess of dog food.

This absolutely.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Probably could, don't supposed anyone has tried as have never seen it as a welfare issue anymore than the eventers would be unlikely to go cross country in a bitless bridle or showjumping at high level or high level dressage in a snaffle. Probably the most natural horse from a tack point of view are the endurance horses.

I think that much of the tack situation in many areas is tradition, the bitless bridle and barefoot thing is relatively new to the market..

That's argument is not relevant, many people would like to compete bitless but current rules do not allow, although I hear there are petitions and it's being looked into.

I an in the school of though that you start with the minimal tack and only ass what's needed and try to school and teach horse to go nicely with out gadgets.

What do they use all of the "bondage" just because it's normal?

Why not be an accretion to the norm and start. New craz by using the basics and impressing people with skill?

 

[Doormouse]

I take it you wouldn't judge about rollkur then either?

And I have to say, the majority of polo ponies I have come across are well looked after, however they are physically knackered, battered and pretty shot by the end of their career.

No I wouldn't because I have never seen it first hand and have never discussed with anyone their reasons behind it.

A lot of horses are knackered and shot by the end of their careers, I've had plenty from many different areas of the horse world.

 

[cptrayes]

If you really believe it is a welfare case why don't you take up polo in a snaffle or bitless bridle or micklem and prove your point.

Frankly, what a pathetic argument. The straps are to gain greater control over the horse, so anyone who doesn't use them would be unsafe in the faster game that can be played with them on. Suicidal, I am not.

Now please , can you answer the question. Why can you not play the game with neither team using the bondage?

 

[miss_c]

And this automatically means she must love playing polo of course.....

Yes she did before she was killed 6 years ago. No different to an event horse being excited before cross country.