Welsh a experts/showing people/judges :) .. help!

Montyforever

Montyforever

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Please be 100% truthful in your answers :D

I keep being told over and over again "shes too fine for a inhand welsh"
and getting bad comments about her from people i know ect

I havent taken her out showing yet, but thats what i got her for :/

So you welsh experts, showing people or judges PLEASE give me a truthful idea of her confo, fine-ness :o and how well she would do in local level & higher up if possible ..


.. also shes got a very floaty trot not the usual welshies trot :p

Ta :)

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Hi,

I don't think she's too light for a Section A. My boy is a similar build and won a welsh championship at the weekend, he's won his class at NCPA Pony of the Year Show, has qualified for the Trailblazers Showing Champs this year, yet at some shows doesn't even get looked at by the judge! So as to whether or not she'll go far in showing classes, unless she has any glaring confirmation faults that's too much up to the judges discretion for anyone else to comment. As far as I can tell it doesn't matter what the competition is like, sometimes there are three-uneven-legged two-ugly-headed donkeys placed above us (apologies to all three-uneven-legged two-ugly-headed donkeys out there, I actually love donkeys, even those with three uneven legs and two ugly heads!), and sometimes there are what I consider to be real stunners placed below him.

I think you should just get out there and show them what she's made of!!! Good luck!
 
Welsh A's are very fine, and she looks no daintier than the ones i know.

I'm not an expert (I know a lot of show welshies but they're all c's&d's)...but I think you might be ok....Start out at local level and see how she goes.

She's dead cute.
 
Hi I am no expert but I think she would be great for in hand showing etc, she is very pretty and with the floaty action I think she would do well, maybe your friends dont want the competition;) ( only joking);)
good luck with the shows:)
 
cobface - :D

trottingon - Yeah i know local level can be a mixed bag! :) lol

starsnrunes - all the ones i know are built like a tank and grossly overweight :(

branmash - :p no they all show "proper horses" ;)
 
You are very brave to ask other peoples opinion about your lovely pony.
Q. what section is she? other poster have put her as an 'A' but I would say more 'B'
Q. What is her breeding? if you have her full passport you should see what her parentage is to be an 'A' there can be no 'B' breeding there, 'B's on the other hand can have both. Your pictures don't give a good enough stance to judge how good her conformation is, thats why when you show in hand you have to have them stand perfectly correct and still for the judge to assess them, all your photos show her standing over her front end and therefor she looks straighter in the shoulder and also lacking length of rein, if you stood her up properly and backed her off her front end she may look total different.
Although there is a standard for Welsh ponies there are still large variants in conformation and movement, but none will be perfect they haven't breed that one yet! so say for argument sake your pony is lacking in length of rein but other wise good overall conformation and movement, it should be more desirable the the pretty little true to type one with cow hocks.
If you are showing in hand as an 'A' or 'B' the judge is looking for the best of that day, to his opinion, he might favour good movement over conformation others like tiny ears and big eyes.
Thank god that every judge likes different things or we might as well all go home!!
PS just noticed your headliner and it does change some things if she is a Welsh 'A'
 
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pippinpie said:
You are very brave to ask other peoples opinion about your lovely pony.
Q. what section is she? other poster have put her as an 'A' but I would say more 'B'
Q. What is her breeding? if you have her full passport you should see what her parentage is to be an 'A' there can be no 'B' breeding there, 'B's on the other hand can have both. Your pictures don't give a good enough stance to judge how good her conformation is, thats why when you show in hand you have to have them stand perfectly correct and still for the judge to assess them, all your photos show her standing over her front end and therefor she looks straighter in the shoulder and also lacking length of rein, if you stood her up properly and backed her off her front end she may look total different.
Although there is a standard for Welsh ponies there are still large variants in conformation and movement, but none will be perfect they haven't breed that one yet! so say for argument sake your pony is lacking in length of rein but other wise good overall conformation and movement, it should be more desirable the the pretty little true to type one with cow hocks.
If you are showing in hand as an 'A' or 'B' the judge is looking for the best of that day, to his opinion, he might favour good movement over conformation others like tiny ears and big eyes.
Thank god that every judge likes different things or we might as well all go home!!
PS just noticed your headliner and it does change some things if she is a Welsh 'A'
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Shes reg as a welsh a, and as you go further back into her breeding it goes onto hackneys and welsh ds.

Both parents are welsh a's and under 12hh, shes now 12.1hh at 6 years old so shes outgrown them both, not sure but dont b's start at 12.1hh? << i mean 12.2hh :p
 
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OK I understand now, Are you trying to show her in Welsh classes? Welsh classes are for pure bred ponies and you say that she has hackney and Welsh 'D' in there, then I am sorry to say that she may not pure bred, the stud books closed for foundation mares many many years ago (F1) mares and the their offspring were (F2). does she have any foundation mares in her pedigree, and do you have a Registration papers from WPCS?
 
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Oh and about the height 'A's are up to 12.00hh and 'B's upto 13.2hh, so a 'B' pony can still be under 12hh., any Welsh 'A' that grows bigger that 12hh can be reregistered on the 'B' register that is allowed.
 
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pippinpie said:
OK I understand now, Are you trying to show her in Welsh classes? Welsh classes are for pure bred ponies and you say the she has hackney and Welsh 'D' in there, then I am sorry to say that she may not pure bred, the stud books closed for foundation mare many many years ago (F1) mares and the their offspring were (F2). does she have any foundation mares in her pedigree, and do you have a Registration papers from WPCS?
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Her bloodlines ..

She is Twyford Tangle, and the hackneys ect are more than 5 gens back :)

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/twyford+tangle

(i have all of Twyford Tumbles sires/dams in passport but shes not on there

Havent shown her yet :) no transport but the local yard is just starting to do shows :D

And yes shes registered with WPCS :D
 
Shes a very pretty pony. Lookimng at her though I would put her as a B not an A. Section A's really should have bone, and generally look like the C's only smaller. I have often heard it said that an A should be able to carry a small adult, but realisitically, ho wmany can?

If an A is correct, it would be unsuitable for a small childs lead rein pony in my opinion as it would be too wide for them to be comfortable/safe. (I do mean small child, not a 7 yr old....)

However, she is very pretty and I would certainly not worry about showing her locally. Take her along and see how you do!

Ditto the comments though about the hackney in her breeding, that is quite odd......

She would probably be better suited to lead rein as she looks of a better build for a kiddie to ride.
 
Personally? I'd think she's not compact enough to be a sec A. Look back on her pedigree and compare her to ancestors of traditional breeding. It's not about her being too 'fine' it's the overall picture. She's not 'traditional' which is what alot of judges like, think fine dished head, small ears...

Madog features so much in welsh breeding because, in the 50's he was hailed what the 'world' viewed as a fantastic example for the breed. Look up photos of him. Look at the chest, which is something alot of judges would look for in a sec A. A very broad deep chest and girth.

I would re register her as a B. You'll probably have more success as she LOOKS like a B. To me she says "welsh B" not "overgrown welsh A".

I'm going to send you a link so you can ask some welshie breeders and judges and get their opinion.
 
montyforever,as you know I am a HUGE fan of your pony. If she is registered with the WPCS she will be a sec A. You should already have/or be able to get her dams ped. Sec As come in two types, the more stocky and the more elegant like your mare. Alison Mountain is a friend of mine and I can assure you that she only bred pedagree sec As, there will not be any hackney in her! We had a secA out of Twyford Mama, going on the same lines as yours and he was a very succesful lead rein pony. I used to look after Scrafton Nightowl, he belonged to Libby Ashwin of the Scrafton Stud. Google her if you need to get confirmation of her breeding. She is a top class pony and if you can show her and turn her out well, she will do very well at county and medal shows. If I was you I would get her professionly produced and I dont think you have trouble finding someone willing to take her on. As always feel free to PM me, I shall help in any way I can.
 
She's lovely, she has a very welsh little head and good confirmation, I had a lightweight welsh sec. D gelding, and he was never placed down because he was a light weight! Welsh's arn't just big cobby beasts, I think there might be a bit of jelousy coming from the people that have given you bad comments, start showing her im sure your do well. :)
 
pastie2 said:
montyforever,as you know I am a HUGE fan of your pony. If she is registered with the WPCS she will be a sec A. You should already have/or be able to get her dams ped. Sec As come in two types, the more stocky and the more elegant like your mare. Alison Mountain is a friend of mine and I can assure you that she only bred pedagree sec As, there will not be any hackney in her! We had a secA out of Twyford Mama, going on the same lines as yours and he was a very succesful lead rein pony. I used to look after Scrafton Nightowl, he belonged to Libby Ashwin of the Scrafton Stud. Google her if you need to get confirmation of her breeding. She is a top class pony and if you can show her and turn her out well, she will do very well at county and medal shows. If I was you I would get her professionly produced and I dont think you have trouble finding someone willing to take her on. As always feel free to PM me, I shall help in any way I can.
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Unfortunatly i got her free to good home, and as part of the deal i signed a contract to say she would never be ridden (various teeth and jaw issues) i know its a waste of a lovely pony but shes my baby and i wouldnt risk breaking the contract and loosing her :(

Obv i think shes beautiful :D But i think its because my old sec a (and first pony) was a chunky monkey and thats how i picture them now that i think shes too fine, But i seriously cant believe how shes shot up in the time ive had her :o
 
Looking at her I would automatically put her in the 'B' category if I didn't know any better. IMO she will do extremely well at local level,but any higher and she'll look too fine.

Welsh ponies 'a's,should be correctly be more stocky and workmanlike......yours definitely has the riding pony look about her.

Don't be disheartened by what anyone says though,she's totally super and I know you will do well with her.
 
itsme123 said:
Madog features so much in welsh breeding because, in the 50's he was hailed what the 'world' viewed as a fantastic example for the breed. Look up photos of him. Look at the chest, which is something alot of judges would look for in a sec A. A very broad deep chest and girth.
.
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Shes bred from him check 5 gens back on here :)

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/twyford+tangle
 
just thinking actually....rather than sweating it in a pure bred class,why don't you pull and plait her,find a dinky jockey,and put her in First Ridden classes.

To me,she looks an out and out first ridden pony of hunter type....she is overheight for a lead rein.
 
Cazza525 said:
just thinking actually....rather than sweating it in a pure bred class,why don't you pull and plait her,find a dinky jockey,and put her in First Ridden classes.

To me,she looks an out and out first ridden pony of hunter type....she is overheight for a lead rein.
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Have already said above ^

She cant be ridden :(
 
Well I think she's lovely! On the day it very much depends on the judge's personal opinion :rolleyes: but I think you'd do well local showing.

For the moment don't worry about whether she's an A or B - most local shows just have 'small m&m' or 'large m&m' classes so it won't matter!!

Do post some more pics when you've been to a show. Good luck :D
 
Regarding the hackney breeding in your little mare its quite common in most of the welsh breeds to have hackney, TB or arab blood in them, it was introduced many years ago to try & improve the breeds, it certainly doesnt mean your pony is any less Welsh for it. I see no reason you cant enter any local shows with her, as for her going over height you could always re-register her as a B. Good luck with her & i hope you have lots of fun :)
 
I think your pony is gorgeous!
I can imagine that people who are saying that she is too fine are used to looking at over-conditioned show animals. As said above the vast majority of shows only have classes for large and small M&Ms, so it won't matter what the judge thinks she should be registered as. And if your WPCS registration says section A, then Section A she is!
Go and enjoy yourselves! Let us know how you get on.
 
She IS NOT a section B, she has no sec B breeding and looks nothing like a section B!!! Its like saying I have TB that has a full ped. and some one saying it must be a cob because it looks like my cob!
 
pastie2 said:
She IS NOT a section B, she has no sec B breeding and looks nothing like a section B!!! Its like saying I have TB that has a full ped. and some one saying it must be a cob because it looks like my cob!
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Actually this is not the case. You can swap between the sections of the welsh breeds even if their breeding is specific. What you can't do is have a section A that is over height.... well you can but you'll end up at the bottom of the line - As can be re registered as Bs or Cs depending on their stamp and Ds can be re registered as Cs etc etc...

Blitz
 
blitznbobs said:
Actually this is not the case. You can swap between the sections of the welsh breeds even if their breeding is specific. What you can't do is have a section A that is over height.... well you can but you'll end up at the bottom of the line - As can be re registered as Bs or Cs depending on their stamp and Ds can be re registered as Cs etc etc...

Blitz
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I would doubt that the pony in question is over height. Alison Mountain has not had sec Bs for years and years. She has true characteristics of a sec A. I agree over height Cs have to be reg as Ds, I thinkthe last B Twyford has was Twyford Signal who stood at the Lanarth stud many years ago.
 
I'm no expert, but owning a Welsh A I like watching the odd class etc.

Finer A's seem to have become fashionable these days anyway - so I'd say give it a go. The chunky, stocky little ponies (the sort I could see as being pit ponies and coping!) seem few and far between.
In my opinion, she's a very pretty pony - but if I was looking for a Welsh A, she wouldn't be my first choice. Give it a go though! Why shouldn't you?!
 
However if she has mouth issues that make her unsuitable for riding, is she really suitable for showing? Showing is usually a precursor of breeding and it sounds as though she really shouldn't be bred from. Obviously this doesn't mean that I think you shouldn't do local classes. Unfortunately there has been a lot of line breeding in the Welshies and this doesn't just pass on desirable features.
 
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